B2, or not to B2? Another bl**dy USA Visa Query

[Bluebeard2]

Hello All

Yet another query re USA visas! (sorry)

I’m off to the USA in a few weeks time and I intend to do some flying whilst I’m out there. I’ve had my license validated by the FAA and have the letter from Atlanta in my sticky paws. I’d read that you didn’t need a visa if all you were doing was getting a restricted FAA license, but being a good egg I thought I’d check with the US Embassy in London (I’m a UK citizen).

Having beamed off an e-mail last week, I got a commendably quick reply. No, you don’t need a visa as you can enter under the visa waiver programme. But yes, we’d recommend you did get a B2 visa just in case.

This is a bit of a problem as I am going away in 5 weeks so it will be cutting it fine. I wrote back asking for a definitive answer, stressing that I’m not going to be adding any ratings; in fact, its not even a flying holiday as such, as I reckon out of 2 weeks I won’t be flying for more than half of it, and then only on day trips.

After a bit of toing and froing of e-mails I got the same response. This is a bit frustrating as you’d have though they could give a straight answer. I’d rather not have to spend nigh on £70 for the privilege and sit there biting my nails waiting for my passport to pop through the letterbox. So, a few questions..

Has anybody in a similar position gone without a B2, and if so what happened?

For those who went and got the B2, how long did it take for your passport to turn-up?

Cheers in advance,

BB.

[Flyin'Dutch']

BB,

As I understand it:

If you don't go for training you do not need a visa other than the waiver you get on entry. Checkrides and BFRs come under this.

Having said that you will have to satisfy the border control people at your point of entry that you are just going to do some flying rather than training for the acquisition of licence/rating.

You may well have less of a job convincing them of your good intentions if all you carry (flight gear wise) is your logbook and licence rather than the whole shebang.

In doubt I would get the visa, although it may be difficult to get the I-20 from the school if you indeed don't intend to do any training.

I recently read on here that someone actually was told by the Embassy that they could even go over there for a checkride without needing a training visa. I am not sure if that was correct and it would certainly not assume that it was.

Best to go for belt and braces as the penalty for abuse of the visa waiver is not pretty and amongst other things can mean you can not get another one in the future.

Hope this helps.

FD

[drauk]

I have been on flying holidays in the US twice in the last year or so and neither time have I had a visa.

As FD says, I guess there is a question mark over convincing them you are really only going to do some flying, rather than add any ratings to your license (which certainly does require a visa). But I don't see the point in not taking your flying gear with you. I've visited the US about 40 times and not once has an INS officer ever looked in my bag (and thus would see flying gear). They ask the purpose of your visit, which is a holiday/vacation. If they asked me if I was going there to do some flying of course I would say yes, but why would they ask?

Personally I wouldn't worry about it. The absolute worst that could happen is they could deny you entry, but that seems extremely unlikely.

[PhilD]

I've been on several holidays to the US where I have gone flying and I have never had a problem travelling on a visa waiver.

[Keef]

I've been to the USA many, many times and never had a hint of a problem.

I used to have B1/B2 visas - because they were required in those days, but were free and there was no "interview". The last one was eventially cancelled "without prejudice" because I didn't need it and it was over 10 years old.

However, things are very different since 9/11 and INS officers might ask more questions (although I had no problem at all last year going to Florida).

If you tell the man you're on vacation, and particularly if you've been there many times before, you should have no problem. Don't announce that you're flying, but if asked be truthful - yes, I will probably do some flying on the licence I already have, but do not intend to do any training.

[knobbygb]

I did the same thing as you earlier this year - went over to get a reciprocal FAA license on the back of my CAA one. No visa is required and I didn't get one. Everything went fine.

It's a shame the embassy can't give you a straight answer. The fact that they can say you definatley DONT need the visa and then feel the need to qualify it with a "but..." smacks of them simply covering their behinds in case they made a mistake.

There are horror stories of people being turned away at immigration of course. In one case a guy was reported for reading a Thom manual on the outbound flight and was denied entry, but he WAS going for training without a visa (IIRC) so couldn't complain really. I'd say be sensible, take all the flying gear you need, but not any "training manuals".

One other point - me being a bit of a worrier about these things - is it possible your repeated Emails to the US embassy have raised a flag somewhere in the immigration system that might mean they single you out for a more thorough check? Probably not, but a thought worth bearing in mind.

Good luck and the main this is not to let the stress of getting there spoil the enjoyment.

[FlyingForFun]

The problem is that the rules are perfectly clear, but actually don't matter one bit. All that matters is the opinion of the immigration officer who sees you when you arrive. If he doesn't know the rules and thinks you shouldn't be there, tough. Even if he does know the rules, but doesn't understand aviation well enough to understand the difference between a club checkout and a training course (which, let's face it, is quite understandable), tough.

I was in a similar situation to you - didn't really have time to get a Visa. I did exactly what FD and Keef have suggested - left as much flying gear as I could at home, and although I didn't lie I didn't volunteer any information which wasn't asked for. It worked for me, can't guarantee it will work for you but the chances are you'll be ok.

FFF
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[drauk]

I believe that leaving flying gear at home is overkill. Not only has the contents of my luggage never been expected by immigration but I've never seen it happen to anyone else either. Besides, just put it in your checked luggage - you pick up your bags after immigration at nearly all US airports.

[englishal]

Its only a problem if you make it a problem :D You go through INS before customs. Check in your flying gear, and you have already been granted access to the good old US of A before you baggage is checked / not checked. Chances are that the US customs are only concerned with drugs / food / money, rather than a private pilot doing some hour building. Just say you're a fireman, I saw the FD driving down the road the other day and they were all wearing cool looking green DC's :D

A B1/B2 visa is effectively the same as the green I94 form, except you have already promised in advance on the visa application not to overthrow the US government, import drugs or carry out terrorist acts etc. By filling in the Green I94 form you promise these things on entry. Once the INS guy is satisfied that you are not going to carry out any of the above, or ask for asylum then you are stamped in B2 anyhow (B2 is vacation, B1 is business as in meetings etc). The advantage of a B1/B2 visa is you get 6 months and don't need a return ticket, as obviously they only issue them to people of good character :D

There are plenty of british voices on the radio in the skies of LA these past couple of weeks....

Cheers
EA

[onehunga]

Got back on the w/e from two weeks in the US where I burnt 50 hours. Carried my flight bag on board with me both there and back as I don't want to risk losing the contents. As it turns out one of the guys at the school where I was based managed to lose his entire lifes collection of flying paraphernalia courtesy of BA but that is an aside.

Told INS that I was there on hoilday which I was and sailed through. No questions asked about flying and no information offered to them about flying to enable them to get their sticky beaks out of joint. Easy peasy. The only troubles I ever here of are when people start talking about flying which usually ends up in a 3 or more hour hold up whilst INS make calls to the school etc to verify what you are doing.