Flying in Queensland

[jezbowman]

Eh up,

I'm off on my Hols to Oz and NZ in four weeks time and have booked an C172 for a weekend (after a checkout) from an operator at Brisbane's Archerfield aprt.

I'm looking for some feedback from any UK PPL's who have done a checkout and hired down there. Any gotcha's?

Also, perhaps from some locals, details of any good places to visit. I want to cover about three hours flying a day, for two days. My current plan is to work from Archerfield up to Gympie (does anyone know anything about Gympie??? Facilities, resturants, etc.) then across to Hervey Bay. I'd like to stop the night on Fraser Island at the Eurong Beach resort. Anyone got any experience of landing on their strip?

Next day I'd like to cover the coast stopping at Maroochydore then down to Coolangata via Morton / Stradbroke Islands VFR routes. Then back to Archerfield. Anyone see any problems with that route?

Any feedback would be really appreciated....
Thanks.

[A and C]

There should be no problems with what you plan , by UK standards the airspace is empty of traffic and the control zones are far apart so expect low stress flying.

You will be flying over some rurul areas that may seem to you to be empty but by australian standards it is highly populated , on all the flight plans you have to nominate a "SAR time " this is a time when if your flight plan has not been closed the search and rescue system starts to look for you.
These times are all in UTC and so with local time being 12 hours displaced from this some care must be taken not to give a SAR time that is wrong.

The australians expect a high standard of pilotage and have had some problems with american PPL holders getting in to trouble and so the check flight you will have to do will be a full australian bi-annual flight reveiw , this should be no problem for a UK PPL holder and will be a good intro to flying in australia.

You will undoubtedly have a lot of fun but remember to do all the pre-flight planning well because of the distances involved.

[Algirdas]

Jez,
not flown in QLD, but familiar with it. Gympie itself is a regional town, not a lot happens there, but as with anywhere in Oz, good tucker to be had. Not a place to go out of your way to see. No idea what the airfield facilities are.
Fraser Island on the other hand ...... unique. There's no strip as such at Eurong - the beach is it! The beach runs up the east coast for about 60 miles. Eurong is just off the beach, and should be easily identifiable from the air. Best to fly in at low tide - the high side of the beach is pretty soft sand, the bit that is covered by tides is very firm. It tends to have stable offshore sea breezes (i.e. cross-wind). Getting off the beach to Eurong is a short walk up a 'road' through steep soft sand. Thing to watch out for is that the beach is the main road for the island - so you get all sorts of 4WD vehicles driving up and down it. Easy to spot, though. Be aware that the RAAF often uses the coast as a route for F111 training - I've seen them off Fraser and also further down the coast near Maroochydore. They fly fast (500+mph I'd estimate ) and low (100-200 feet) and pretty close to shore. Not nice to get in their way.....
Well worth a visit..... See if you can get a lift up the coast about 10 or 15 miles to to Eli Creek for a swim - it's heaven on earth. Freshwater, crystal clear, fast running through the jungle - just sit in it and enjoy the ride.....you may also be able to land on the beach at that point, though I'm not sure.

[sedgie]

G'day,

You will love your flying in QLD. I use to go in to Brizzie all the time but it was always at night. :ugh: The BN CEN guys are cool and will help you with any probs that you may have. I think sunland aviation have C-172's. Maybe try Flight Training Australia (FTA) I think they have 172's and stuff.

If you depart Archerfield and stay below 2500' you will stay out of CTA on a track to Maroochydore.

The boy's in the tower at Archerfield are good and the few times I went in there in daylight there might have been 3-5 aircraft in the circuit.

I have never been to Gympie so I can't help you there. I will pull out the charts at work and have a look at where you are going. It seems like it will be a great trip.

I hope this helped:ok:

[Aussie Andy]

Hey there jezbowman, I got my UK PPL a few years ago and it was not until this last Christmas that I flew in Australia. I did a pretty thorough (2 hr) flight test and was issued the "Special Pilot" license. I did this in NSW so haven't flown in Qld.

I agree generally with the above comments: do expect the flight test to be thorough, but have no fear: anyone with a UK PPL will breeze it. You will find yourself having a lengthy (1hr plus) briefing before flight though as you'll need to understand a number of differences. Airspace and charts are very different. For example, there is special airspace around places like Archerfield known as "GAAP". A bit like Class D, and no big deal really, but it generally includes lanes of entry/exit that you must be familiar with for example. These will be shown to you in flight as well during your check (at least they were at Bankstown/Sydney). There are other airspace differences, including "MBZ" mandatory broadcast zones etc. None of it difficult - in fact its a good system - but you need to be familairised with it.

As mentioned, the charts are pretty different. There's a whole set of them and you should buy them ahead of time if possible so you can familiarise yousefl with them. They are not all same scale as our maps either, using smaller scale close to major cities and towns, and there's a special publication called ERSA which is a bit like Pooley's that you must have as well. YOu can buy these online from Air Services Australia Publications - see http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/ - but you won't have enough time before you leave, and you will be able to get them all at Archerfield. But still try to get them all a few days before flying so you can pore over them before you get in the air!

Another important thing to understand is how to get weather and NOTAM information in Australia. There are lots of ways to do this, you need(ed?) a special Telstra phone card when I was there so you can get by voice of fax from absolutely any remote place you happen to be in. There is also another Airservices Australia website for this: http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/brief/index.htm.

SARWATCH has already been mentioned. You'll be shown how to file for SAR at the club (can be done through a dedicated online system, much like a regular fltplan, or by phone. DON'T FORGET TO CANCEL YOUR "SARTIME" WHEN YOU LAND!!!!

You will have a great time!!! Let us know all about it with some PIREPs when you get back then, and post some photos!

Andy :cool:

[jezbowman]

Thanks for the replies so far guys. Looks like Gymie isn't much of an airfield. The only reason for picking it was to get some nice views of the mountains and lakes on track from Archerfield (mt Langley and Lake somerset for example). I might just make it a fuel stop then, and then get upto Fraser Island.

With regards Fraser Island - Eurong Beach resorts website claims that they have a 900m+ landing strip (tarmac/asphalt) thats a short 4WD ride to the complex. Has no one heard about that or used it? I fired them an e-mail but haven't had any response. I'm not too sure about the idea of landing on a beach full of people and cars, sounds a little risky and the a/c's owner probably wouldn't want me doing it!

I already ordered some maps and stuff a while back when I first started planning. I ended up with a load of IFR maps (ERC's) but of most use is the Brisbane VTC which goes as far noth as Gympie (covering Maroochydore) and far enough south to cover Coolangata. BUT what chart can I use for VFR navigation beyond the VTC (that includes Fraser I)?

When I ordered the Maps I also ordered the CASA VFR guide (ringbound book, dated Sept 2001, perhaps out of date) which covers MBZ/CTAF and GAAP procedures. Seems easy enough. I also got the Archerfield Visual Pilot Guide which discusses entry/exit routes and circuit joining procedures. I like the little pictures of VRP's - excellent. I could probably get a copy of the ERSA now and have it before I go (still four weeks yet!). The maps and stuff came within a week (from Downunder Pilot Shop). Or has ASA got a reputation for being slow? Is there anything else I need?

The other question I have is regarding Danger areas. Generally dangers areas in the UK get avoided at all time unless you have someone to speak to regarding it's operation (usually a military controller regarding an fireing range for example). But if in OZ you are often not speaking to anyone, just monitoring a frequency (like say BN CEN) how do you get a clearance to enter the danger area. For example it's just one massive danger area pretty much from half way from Coolangata back to Archerfield, and the VFR entry lane starts in the danger area?!?

I also read the rule regarding wearing life jackets for an overwater flight (other than an approach to land or taking off). Would that apply for the short transit section between Bald Point and Moreton Island?

No worries regarding to reports and photos - I can't wait and there will be loads of them! Thanks for your feedback so far!

[Aussie Andy]

Hi,what chart can I use for VFR navigation beyond the VTC (that includes Fraser I)? Good point as the VTC's and (whatever they call the) half-mil charts don't cover the entire land area: far from it! They use the big 1 mill topo charts when away from major cities and other chunks of controlled airspace.

Yes the VPG's are great: in case anyone else is looking for them, they can be downloaded for free in PDF format here: http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/pilot/pilotgde.htm "These educational products are designed to assist VFR pilots operating at Australia's General Aviation Approach Procedures (GAAP) aerodromes" it says.

Good question re- Danger Areas - they do seem to be differently handled to here. I think you'll find the detail from ERSA where each of the Danger Areas is listed. Quite often they are relatively innocuous - for example, PPL training areas are set aside as Danger Areas (which I am guessing is most likely reason why one would abut the Archerfield GAAP) so you're just meant to be more alert when chunking through the area and AFAIK you don't need to get a crossing service from ATC. But they are not all as innocuous - there are also MIL danger areas for example. As I say, I am pretty sure the answer would be in ERSA.

Lastly, do you know there is a PPRUNE section dedicated to Australia & NZ known as "Dunnunda and Godzone" (D&G) which is here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=24. You could probably get some good advice and more answers to your questions in the GA forum within that section, which is here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=91 - I have taken the liberty of posting a pointer to this thread there for you.

Andy

[jezbowman]

so you're just meant to be more alert when chunking through the area and AFAIK you don't need to get a crossing service from ATC

... a bit like an AIAA here in the UK then, though to some extent the whole of the UK should be an AIAA!

Thanks for the cross posting Andy! :ok:

[Aussie Andy]

Yes, thats right: a bit like an AIAA if it happens to be a training area, but as above they aint all like that so you need to look 'em up in ERSA.

You're welcome mate,

Andy

[Hasselhof]

Hiya,

I haven't fown in South East Queensland for a while but did most of my training down there. Great place to go flying, all of the islands in the area are great to see from the air, and although the mountain ranges aren't particularly big, they make for a pleasant distraction on the way.

Gympie is a pretty good airport by Australian standards, however that means its really small with minimal services. The other problem is that its no where near town. If you want to go to Gympie itself, be prepared for a long wait and an expensive taxi fare.

Get a Brisbane / Coolangatta VTC, a Brisbane / Oakey VTC, a Brisbane VNC, a Brisbane WAC and an ERC for that area (can't remember which one). The VFG is an excellent publicantion that should see you through. Just make sure it gets some use before you come over.

Most of the operators in Archerfield are friendly and as there is an excess of instructors sitting aound doing little, you should have plenty of opportunities to work out any differences with people in the know.

Anyhow, enjoy the trip!

[Dan Kelly]

It's so long since I've flown in SE QLD that any info I had would be out of date.

Just one worfd of caution though, Eastern Standard Time (EST) is UTC + 10 hours, not the 12 mentioned above. :ooh:

[Max Range]

There's only one short, grass, soft sandy strip on Fraser Island at Orchid Beach. PM me if you want the details. I recently flew north from Sydney up the coast to Fraser and then across to western Qld and can give some stop-off suggestions if you like. Depends how long you have.
Max

[mixturelean]

Jez,

When you go to New Zealand check out an Aero club at Queenstown Airport (South Island) called Wakatipu Aero Club.
( www.flying.co.nz ).

They have very reasonable prices for a C172 - 2 years ago they were about 1/2 of the price of a C172 here in Ireland at that time. Just walked into the club and was able to go flying immediately without pre-booking.

I did a couple of hours Mountain Flying with this club and I can safely say it was the biggest rush I have had in flying since my solo flight - great scenery, great experience - hope to return next year.

Enjoy your holiday,

Mixturelean.

[Chimbu chuckles]

I think you will find that all the strips on the sand islands (Fraser, Moreton,Stradbroke) are soft and some are quite short. Certainly Redcliffe Aeroclub, where I keep my Bonanza, has restrictions on operating club aircraft into the strips on Moreton Island, a check flight being a prerequisite and even then some charge steep landing fees.

I took a 172rg into Orchid Beach years ago but was politely asked to leave as it was a private strip. Things may have changed. The is no strip at Eurong Beach that I'm aware of...certainly not marked on any charts.

But to wet your appetite last weekend I took a mate and his son and we went for a fly out of YRED down the coast to Broadbeach then inland to YBAF, spent some time at the Warbirds hangar then back to YRED to do some circuits so my mate can fly my aircraft. We saw probaby 30-40 Dugong on the shallow sand banks inside Moreton, numerous Dolphins and some big rays on the ocean side of North Stradbroke and a pod of 6 Humpback whales playing just outside the surfline about halfway down Nth Stradbroke Is.

SE QLD....Beautiful one day, perfect the next!!!

Chuck.

[Bad medicine]

Chimbu is right, there is no strip at Eurong, just the beach. The strip at Orchid Beach is short and rough, and I believe the resort is closed now. Fraser Island is beautiful, and not to be missed. Fly to Harvey bay, and get the ferry across to Kingfisher Bay Resort ($5 on the car ferry or $25 return on the fast catamaran). Even a day trip is worth it. Probably no need for a fuel stop between Archerfield and Harvey Bay, even with some sight-seeing. Fuel and good tiedowns on sealed apron are available at Harvey Bay

You don't need a clearance to go through Danger areas, just be aware what they are there for (in ERSA). The big one south of Archerfield is just the training area.

The VFR routes down the islands are great too.

Have fun.

BM

[jezbowman]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

I have done some more digging around and have spoken to the guys at Eurnong beach and also Air Fraser Island.

There is a 960m x 15m airstrip owned by Eurong Beach resort on the WEST coast of Fraser Island at Wangoolba Creek (near where the ferry comes in). There is a photo of it at this link - with a twin taxiing down the rwy!

http://www.lilydaleairport.com.au/Favourite%20Flights/Fraserisland.htm

The only problem I have with it is getting to Eurong Beach from there. The guys at Air Fraser can hire me a 4WD but only from Eurong so I need to get a taxi (Fraser Island Taxi) but they suggested I booked it at least a week in advance!

They then wanted to charge $200 for the 4WD per day. Is that expensive? Basically, will it be cheaper to land at Hervey Bay and hire a 4x4 there and take it across on the ferry?

Hmmm, so many descisions.

mixturelean - Thanks for that. I've already got that one planned! I'm hiring a 172 with instructor from Aspiring Air, Wanaka to do a trip into Milford Sound!!

[mixturelean]

Hi Jez,

sounds like a great trip your planning there - I hope you get the weather for your trip to Milford Sound. I tried to organise a similar trip to Milford but got rained out day after day ( it was around the middle of October). If you don't manage to fly there make the effort to go by road - well worth experiencing.

Enjoy your trip.

Mixturelean.

[MAXX]

i learned to fly in qld and yeah hervey bay gypmie area is great to fly up to from acherfield through the glass house mountains and sunshine coast hinterland,which everyone else has covered

all the airstrips around there are pretty good,mostly sealed.
however i used to work for a company on fraser island flying a 172 and a 206 off the beach on the island and if youve had limited short rough strip experience DONT TRY TO LAND ON THE BEACH!!!!.

although that probbably wont be an issue as 99.9% of flying schools wont rent you an a/c if they know you going to land on the beach at fraser.

happy flying:ok: