Can Anybody Learn To Fly?

[Flock1]

To answer my own question, I personally, don't think that anybody and everybody has the ability to learn to fly.

I am a newly qualified PPL (age 32), and right at the start of my training, I asked the instructor if most people eventually passed the PPL. He told me that anyone who could stand upright could learn to fly an aeroplane. He said that it was easier than drinving a car.

Though he was obviosuly trying to instill some confidence in myself, others said the same thing throughout my training. Lots of instructors and pilots compared learning to fly with learning to drive. (And we all know that virtually everybody who learns to drive will eventually pass - even the thickest of the thick.)

When I learned to fly, I thought that it would be easy, but I found it hard. I couldn't land, I couldn't speak to the nasty controllers, and I could hardly navigate. But eventually it all clicked into place, and I passed first time.

But some of my friends now ask me whether they could learn to fly, and I tell them that yes they could - but am I right? Is there some trait in a person that would make you think - no, that person will never be a pilot? And I'm talking about able-bodied, reasonably fit, mentally stable people here.

How much does intelligence play a part - becasue let's be honest here, the exams are not relly that difficult are they? - and they're all multiplrechoice!

So my question again:

Do you think that anybody can learn to fly an aeroplane?

Flock1

[FlyingForFun]

I don't think flying requires any particular amount of intelligence. So in that sense, I would say your instructor is right.

However, it does need an incredible amount of perseverance. Learning to land is, I would guess, the single area which just about everyone finds frustrating. I would image that a large portion of the population wouldn't have the patience to turn up, week after week, knowing that they're going to bounce all over the runway and not make any progress at all (because that's what we all thought at the time, isn't it?) How many people would have the dedication to think about nothing except flying circuits for hour after hour, in the hope that when we next turn up at the airfield all that thinking time will translate into the tiniest hint of improvement in our flying? (In fact, come to think of it, how many people would embarrass themselves by "flying circuits" on the bus, trying not to grab the knee of the person sitting next to you as you reach for the flap lever! ;))

And for those lucky few who managed to land without having to put any real effort into it, I bet there was some other area of the training that required a similar level of dedication.

FFF
--------------

[strafer]

When I learned to fly, I thought that it would be easy
Why?

Anyway, the answer is yes, anyone can learn to fly with the obvious exception of women.

[PilotOnline]

Please don't flame me for saying this as it is just my opinion!

Whilst I think learning to fly can be achieved by most people I think that being able to learn how to fly and being able to fly well and safely are different qualities. Once you have your PPL you still have a heck of a lot of learning to do, in fact you will never stop. I have a couple of friends who have expressed an interest in flying. One just wants to do it so he can pull women (he thinks). He has an awful driving record and is very arrogant about his own abilities and refuses to take any sort of advice constructive or not. (And is actually a good friend!!)

My main point is that learning to fly should not just be measured in terms of ability alone because attitude is just as important.




.......I'll get me coat.

[Penguina]

PilotOnline - is there any way you could bribe a doctor to fail your friend on his medical??? Don't think I would like to share a sky with him... :uhoh:

PS - I think you're right.

[Wonko The Sane]

There was an interesting thread on the flying instructors forum a few months back, about when it was time to tell a student that they just weren't cut out for flying.

Some of the stories focussed on students who, although were probably technically and mentally capable of flying, had personality traits that made them unsuitable : they flipped out screaming and shouting at instructors when criticized, or got very stressed or froze when the pressure started.

I'm sure these people can be taught to fly, but not by just by a flying instructor - they need professional, possibly clinical help with the personality trait that makes them unsuitable. I think there's a lot of drivers on the roads today that the same could be said for.

I'd disagree, by the way, that flying "is as easy as" driving - something that I've seen quoted a lot. I think it's quite different, with different skills and traits being important. I think, however, that if you can be taught to drive, then you can probably be taught to fly.

Ah - here's that thread : http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92178&highlight=shouldnt+fly

[Pink_aviator]

I wondered wether I could learn to fly.

Not being known for my academic achievments,i imagined I would perhaps master the physical flying part, and having succeded so far in my QXC,,perhaps I was right,but the exams.!

I am certinaly having to work at them ,but as I do want to achieve my liscence,i am and will perciver.
I hope through the quality of my teachings I will turn out to be a safe pilot,even though in every day life ,i am a bit dizzy.

Do not suppose I have answered your question ,but I am on the ground at the moment ,so am in DIZZY mode.

PINK-AVIATOR

[Flock1]

It was not my intention to belittle anyone's efforts with revising for the exams, because I do realise that some do find them hard.

So setting exams aside, and assuming that a person has unlimted cash reserves and has astonishing perseverence skills, do you think it is possible for anyone to learn to fly?

And to answer on question thrown at me, If thought that learning to fly was going to be easy because I had used my flight-sim a lot. And I thought that I would have a head start - but I was wrong. I might as well have never flown on the flight-sim for the use it was - but that is a different topic altogether.

Flock1

[Hilico]

Let me establish my level of authority by saying that I last flew as P1 in November 1978. And that I have never flown as P2.

The ability to operate an aeroplane or a helicopter requires a degree of manual dexterity. It does not require great intelligence. It is different to, but no more taxing than driving a car. Two seconds' inattention in a car will lead to catastrophe because the hazards are always so close (other vehicles, the edge of the road); two seconds' inattention in an aircraft may mean a slight change of heading or height, especially if out of trim.

To be the commander of an aeroplane or helicopter requires the ability to plan; the ability to empathise; a certain level of academic ability; confidence; the ability to listen to others; humility; stamina; self-knowledge; and the attitude that, though death is inevitable in the long run, it may well be postponed for the time being if you care about what you are doing.

[Whirlybird]

I think anyone, given enough time, can acquire the handling skills necessary to fly an aircraft. I don't think everyone has the attitude to enable them to be a safe pilot.

And I think that applies to driving too? What about road rage?

[Charlie Zulu]

My post is going to be slightly different to those above in that I am currently learning to drive a car.

As I went to University and was living at home, there didn't seem to be much point in learning to drive as I couldn't afford to buy a car on student grants (they were the days!).

Then when I finished University I gained my first job. But then I made the "fatal" flaw in starting my flying lessons for the PPL within a month. So again I was skint but for different reasons. Six years later, I've started learning to drive. I pick up my new car next week - currently in Southampton docks, was given the new registration for it yesterday evening so I can go ahead with the insurance.

Anyway where are we? Oh yes "Can anybody learn to fly"?

In my very humble opinion, "yes".

Most people I know who learnt to fly have had the desire to learn. This desire will get one through all of the set backs that are thrown in the path of a student pilot. Landings, exams, navigation, flight tests to name but a few, all need to be overcome.

If someone would like to learn to fly just because it seems "cool" and he may be able to "pull the birds" with it, would they succeed? They may well succeed, but would they be a safe pilot? Would they want to further their understanding beyond the basics of passing the multiple guess / flight tests? Would they continue to fly or just do the PPL just to say they've done it and just fly the minimum hours for insurance purposes?

From what I see from the world of flying, those of us who go out and obtain the licence are into flying and (hopefully) all of us are always trying to push our knowledge and abilities that one step further. Trying not to get complacent in what we do. That goes with most, if not all, things in life.

In short anyone can learn to fly, but if their desire and (in some cases) heart and soul isn't really there, then as someone said before, would they turn up every week to bounce all over the runway?

By the way I found Landings to be most difficult aspect of the course, with Navigation the second. Took about ten hours before I twigged at what I was supposed to be doing in Landing and aeroplane (my instructor eventually flew down the entire length of the runway at flare attitude / height a few times). I'm not sure whether I would have continued if I were one of those just wanting to do it because its "cool".

Back to learning to drive....

I'm finding that driving is using a lot more concentration than learning to fly, even more so than during my IR course earlier this summer.

The seriousness of the lethal weapon that a car is was brought home to me in my fifth lesson... I was travelling downhill on a 40mph main road, a cyclist emerges from the left to turn right WITHOUT looking. My first emergency stop - aided by instructor of course. There was some exchange of hand gestures and beeping of the horn by my instructor! Not sure if thats a good thing to be taught though, but hey!!!!

This incident brought home to me that one has a lot longer relatively to make corrections in flying than they do at driving.

One last thing...

Although this is a pilots bulletin board, I am just wondering if I could be a little cheeky to ask if anyone has any tips on passing the DSA Hazard Perception Test. Sat mine this week and had 36/75 as the score (44/75 is the pass mark). So I have to do this AND the multiple guess again next Wednesday (incidentially the multipe guess part was passed with 100%). I was a little fed up with myself, the second exam in my life that I have failed (last one was GCSE French ten and a bit years ago). :{

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[Pianorak]

Can anybody fly? The answer is probably yes, but the question is to what extent (ie safely and responsibly as said by Whirlybird). It’s a bit like asking can anybody play the piano. The answer is yes. Anybody can press all 88 piano keys. The question is can anybody press them in the correct sequence and at the right time and - assuming it isn’t asking too much – with a bit of flair and style.
That said, my first FI had himself and me convinced that I would never fly and we parted company by mutual agreement. My second FI has now discovered hitherto unsuspected talents so that I may yet earn the privileges accorded to a private pilot. Perhaps it’s not just beauty but also talent which is in the eye of the beholder? :confused: :O

[Hilico]

CZ

If you really want to become a good driver, forget the car and ride a motorcycle for a year. Your powers of observation will increase to the point where Tonto will be asking you for advice. It teaches you exactly where to look for the danger.

Of course, you still have to learn to operate the car, but that's simple manual dexterity.

[astir 8]

Most 10 year old kids seem to be able to fly. Lack of fear? Too much time on computer joysticks? I don't know why, but they can. Then it goes downhill from there.

Pity about us old gits isn't it?

[Whirlybird]

astir 8,

That's an interesting point, perhaps worthy of its own thread. I'm still trying to work out why it takes me longer to learn things than it did when I was younger. I don't think fear has anything to do with it, in my case at any rate. And I don't feel any different. And I still expect to be able to do everything easily, and learn new things quickly, as I used to be able to. But the reality? Well, maybe you should ask any flying instructors who taught me! :eek: :eek:

[Holdposition]

strafer:

Not thinking of a certain lady (well so called lady) @ EGLS are we by any chance;) As quite agree here is the perfect example of your statement, no wonder CFI etc has a big smile on his face every weekend there:D

[IO540]

Flock1

I think just about anybody (perhaps not necessarily a human?) can fly a plane straight and level, and anyone who can learn to drive can learn to fly to PPL level. What I doubt is whether anyone who can learn to drive would pass the PPL exams. They aren't hard but they aren't trivial either, and many people come out of school with few or no exam passes and being barely able to write.

[jackyboy]

Can anybody learn to fly?

Seems most think anybody can. So to be different I'll say no.

The best comparison I can think of is on Ch 5, "Britains worst driver"

I cannot see most of those ever getting a PPL. Watch it and see what I mean.

The fact they passed a driving test defies belief. But the subtle difference is, in my opinion, that they were never taught to drive. They were only taught how to pass a test.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

CZ said:

I am just wondering if I could be a little cheeky to ask if anyone has any tips on passing the DSA Hazard Perception Test. Sat mine this week and had 36/75 as the score (44/75 is the pass mark).

Is that an indicator as to why your encounter with the apparently suicidal cyclist resulted in an impromtu emergency stop?? ;~))

Learning to fly an aeroplane is, IMHO, much more difficult than learning to drive. It's that 3rd dimension, and the fact that if it's all going pear-shaped you can't just pull over to the side of the road for a think.

But what really makes a good pilot isn't the basic ability to drive an aeroplane - it's about attitude and judgement. The same could be said of driving, except that driving is far more forgiving of foolishness. The exception, as someone pointed out, is motorcycling. Because the motorcylist is so vulnerable, attitude is crucuail to staying alive, just as it is for a pilot.

Is it just co-incidence that many pilots are also bikers?

SSD

[Penguina]

Confidence is a significant attribute too, for flying and driving.

I don't have a driver's licence, but I did learn to drive when I was at school. Only gave it up because something (!!!) distracted me, but I remember not liking it very much because of the immediacy of the danger. I'd be interested to see whether having a PPL will help now I'm thinking about having another bash at it.

I do think young children have more ability to turn new actions that involve manual skill into reflexes - hence the computer games and why I found it easy to learn the piano when I was ten.

Adults have fully developed brains more capable of understanding more complex ideas (as I discovered to my delight when I revisited mathematics recently) but are less capable of learning new things as well. So the exams may or may not be harder for grown-ups. Though grown-ups have longer concentration spans and - if they're paying for it themselves and it means a lot to them - more inclination to persevere.

[dublinpilot]

I think anyone can learn to fly an airplane, in the sence of control it flight path. It's not that difficult. Even landing which causes students so many problems is not that difficult to achieve. Smooth landings yes, they are difficult to learn, but getting the plane on the ground in one piece is not that hard.

However the attitude needed for flying an airplane is different. If you don't have the right attitude, the this too can be learnt, however only by someone who is willing to change their personal attitude.

Driving....2 feet out of place on the road, can mean death in a serious crash, on certain roads. Everything can seem to be going fine in a car, and two seconds later someone runs/drives out in front of you, and it's all gone pair shaped, and needs an immediate reaction....no major thought at this point in time, just an instinctive reaction.

Flying is different. You can be two miles out of place, and their is not danger. However you can already have set off a series of errors that will lead to a terminal end, but which will take an hour to play out to their conculsion, and not realise it. Therefore the thought process is more important that instinctive handling skills.


So, to fly yes, anyone can do it. To fly safely requires the correct attitude, or a willingness to change your attitude.

dp

[PilotOnline]

Dublin,

I take your point about the safety requiring a different attitude but I don't agree with your comment on driving a car requiring more handling skills and flying inaccuracies being slower to turn into problems. The points you refer to: making a 2 foot error in a car and yes you probably will do a fair bit of damage and in navigation whilst flying all things considered you could end up 2 miles away from your destination froma similar error but consider the following when talking about mistakes when flying and handling skills:

What wbout when you turn onto final with flap and at a low airspeed and accidentally stick in some heavy boot on the rudder whilst still in the bank cos you've overshot the centreline? I think you'll need some pretty nifty handling skills to get out of that one in one piece.

What about windshear on landing? Handling skills required.

What would you do if you failed to spot a sea king helicopter passing in front of you til the last minute whilst in something like a PA28 or C152, you don't get much time to think about it, you just do it.

Crosswind landings. Ever seen one go wrong? If you have then you'll know how serious it can be if it's not handled properly. If not then the one's you've witnessed probably have been handeld very well.

Engine Failure after take off. Needs a whole lot of instinctive skill to deal with it properly and even then can have a devastating outcome.

And finally! Some people (not all, no offence intended) learn to fly at large aerodromes with loads of tarmac available. It can take some people a lot of time to perfect how to handle a short strip or a difficult approach to a short and narrow runway. Imagine you learn on a 2000m runway then try your first land away on a 400m one. You need to ADAPT your skills to fit the situation.

I'm not trying to tear your comment apart because the examples you used were correct but there are many cases in flying where incorrect handling does not take an hour to manifest itself in serious consequences. You need to be able to 'feel' what you are doing up there and instinctively know what to do if something serious happens.

[dublinpilot]

POL

Point taken, but perhaps I didn't explain the point I was trying to make very clearly.

Bascially I think we can all learn the reactions that need to be instinctive...the sudden ones. If you can react to a car driving out in front of you, then you can learn to react to a plane suddenly appearing in front of you did you hadn't seen.

What I think some people may not be willing to learn is the constant vigilance. Basically if something goes wrong in a car, you need a quick instinstive reaction. However things can be gone wrong in an airplane long before it will become obvious, and therefore requires a constant vigilance and a paranoid approach to saftey.

dp

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi SSD,

> Is that an indicator as to why your encounter with
> the apparently suicidal cyclist resulted in an impromtu
> emergency stop?? ;~))

Nope, I'm not that bad at spotting developing hazards, indeed the CD-Roms I bought for preperation for the test I was getting in the high 60's out of 75 and that was without really practicing on them. So I thought I'd be okay on the test itself, how wrong could I be. Also whilst driving I'm always looking for hazards etc.

Anyway the side street that the cyclist emerged from wasn't the easiest to see cars / cyclists etc emerging from... it was one of those with buildings, bushes, trees etc. Even my instructor didn't see the the cyclist until he was pulling out in front of us (the cyclist didn't stop at the give way line at all, he just pulled out. Maybe he did see us and misjudged our distance / speed but there most definately wasn't enough room).

> But what really makes a good pilot isn't the basic ability to
> drive an aeroplane - it's about attitude and judgement. The
> same could be said of driving, except that driving is far more
> forgiving of foolishness. The exception, as someone pointed
> out, is motorcycling. Because the motorcylist is so vulnerable,
> attitude is crucuail to staying alive, just as it is for a pilot.

Agreed. BUT foolishness is not a place in either an aeroplane OR a car. Both are NOT forgiving one little bit to foolishness.

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.