Concorde emergency landing at Cardiff

[Wedge]

Happened at 1845 (1745Z), BA002 JFK-LHR had engine surge in cruise and landed at Cardiff as precautionary measure:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3117904.stm

[Few Cloudy]

Which way does 2 go - west or east?

[1261]

I would contend that JFK-LHR is east, unless there's a special version of concorde with which we're not familiar. :)

[chrisbl]

As it is an even flight number it must be inbound, ie west to east in this case.

[no sponsor]

And they put all the pax on buses... 3hrs JFK to cardiff; how long for the trip on the M4 then?

[hobie]

"The British Airways flight, travelling from New York's JFK airport to Heathrow, landed at Cardiff International Airport at 1845 BST on Wednesday" .......

a few minutes earlier and they could all have had a pleasant Overnight in Dromoland Castle ....

cheers .... hobie .....

[Legal Flyer]

This may be an obvious question, but why would Concorde divert to Cardiff rather than LHR from a safety point of view given the different categories of emergency facilties at each.

Not that this would appear to be an emergency situation, but my understanding is that Heathrow must take an aircraft if a Mayday is called,though the consequences to other traffic are obviously considerable.

What is the significance of a divert to Cardiff?

[Spitoon]

BAW maintenance base at FF.

[mainecoon]

running low on fuel due the duration of subsonic flight with one engine out

[Unwell_Raptor]

If the subsonic bit had reduced the fuel to near minima, then Cardiff-LHR could have been just a bit too far, allowing for the usual reserves.

Any Concorde captain will be very well aware of a famous fuel emergency some years ago when the big bird landed with virtually no fuel at all.

Better safe than sorry - and Cardiff has lots of engineers on site.

[overstress]

Have a look at a globe sometime. It shows that Cardiff is to the West of London. If you are flying JFK-LHR, you will be approaching from the west. Why would you want to continue to LHR with the given situation? (Unless you are head of training!)

[SevernTMA]

Legal Flyer let me assure you that Cardiff handles several jets each day all with a lot more than 99 passengers on board...!

[gordonroxburgh]

Hate to say it but it was not an emergency landing. Neither a Pan or Mayday was called.

One engine had been shut down due to a surge a normal procedure after a surge. Normally at this stage there would been enough fuel reserves to reach the final destination, but the aircraft had already been one hour late leaving New York's JFK airport, after a rejected take off shortly after 9am.

The aircraft with is reserve fuel loaded would under normal circumstances have sufficent fuel with holding reserves to carry on to Heathrow but the additional taxi time and the rejected take off at Nw York meant that, although it would have had on-board the fuel available to reach Heathrow, it could not do it with the mandatory reserves, so the pilots made the correct decision to divert to Cardiff.

Sometimes this forum does get over excited with people copy and pasting off off "breaking news" type websites. They should go off to that airliners.net spotters place.

[Leezyjet]

"They should go off to that airliners.net spotters place"

Where you can so often be found ;)

:)

[Wedge]

A very irritating post Gordon.

Look at the time I posted the thread. The BBC and all of the other news sources were reporting an emergency landing at the time, and that's why I put it in the title. This is a forum for news and that was the news when it was first reported. Excuse me for being less than 100% accurate (and excuse the press, who are a) ill informed about aviation (it's not their job) and b) have to report the news (which we all watch) when they don't have the full facts either.

I don't see what is so difficult to understand there, or why you should resort to sniping. I am used to it by now though here - if a post can be picked on, it will be. :mad:

[Nerik]

What landing distance does the concorde require (after burning 3hrs worth of fuel and let's say average load). Would Cardiff be a bit on the short side?

[moo]

although there are many engineers on site at BAMC, none of them hold concorde authorisation so apart from lending the ramp to it, no work could have been carried out as it would've been unrecorded
EGFF has approx 2700m of tarmac so plenty to put it down, but not enough to get it off fully loaded! after a maintenance check, with no pax, cargo etc. the 747s go up like tomohawks! :)

[gordonroxburgh]

Wedge

My post told the story, which was as far as I could see missing from the topic. Ok I had a dig at the end, but people posting stuff like that really does get on soem peoples nerves. Very few news organsations reported an "emergency landing" Most did get it right tonight that is was simply a diversion.

it was a shame you did not have time to come back onto the board to report the full facts or edit your original post, but simply make some tacky remark at myself, who was contributing to the information on the topic.

Leezyjet
Very rarely I am over "there" in my postings...but I was trying a little humor..obviously I failed..sorry!

[jongar]

I have a question for those in the know - did concorde suffer as many diversions prior to the AF crash - this is two inside a 1 week period is it not - on to Maine and one to Cardiff (both parocial backwaters with a history of interfamily breeding I am informed) :=

[1.32vmd]

Any one know why it had rejected t/o @ JFK?

Cheers Vmd.

[strafer]

My mum's a Concorde nut. Every time she stays at my West London home she goes out in my garden to watch this plane on final. If it's going back to LHR today or tomorrow, could somebody in the know post a rough ETA here?

[Legal Flyer]

Thanks for the explanation viz fuel and the reason for diverting to Cardiff.

I am aware that Cardiff is west of London (my geography is not that bad), but I was not aware the fuel margins were that tight. What happens if Concorde has to go subsonic onroute, say midway over the Atlantic (does it burn more or less fuel?), and where would it then divert to?

My point about LHR versus Cardiff was simply that I believe that LHR is a higher category airport emergency facility wise had there been an emergency (which it transpires there was not).

My point about a Mayday was that I had understood from an AIR into I believe a Virgin plane that landed at Heathrow a couple of years ago with a landing gear problem, that there had been at least an initial doubt whether LHR would accept, which was resolved before a Mayday was formally called (when LHR would then have had to accept the plane as I understand it).

[5milesbaby]

If a plane HASN'T declared an emergency, BAA can ask ATC to pass a message on about causing 'disruption' and maybe choosing another is preferable. The captain has the final choice, if they have filed LHR, they can land LHR. Sometimes its safer to do so as they know LHR and feel more comfortable going there. If an emergency HAS been declared, the 'bog off' message is not passed in any situation.

I can understand BAA wanting LHR going full throttle at all times, but normally the alternates are Stansted/Luton. I cannot understand how declining a triple runwayed airport to go block and subsequently close a single runwayed one is good sense - and no, LGW isn't normally used for the same disruptive reasons :confused: :confused:

[Eira]

Cardiff's Fire category is Cat 7 with Cat 8 and 9 available at short notice. It regularly handles B747s, B777s, B767s and a whole host of other traffic. It has a reasonable length runway and has its own transatlantic flights. Traffic off the ocean routing G1 with a full shortage or other emergency it is the ideal airfield in which too divert.
It isn't some hick airfield it is more than capable of handling Concorde . Short of fuel , routing G1 no delays and a straight in approach , a sound decision by the commander of the aircraft

[Brit312]

Concorde has many failure drills, which in themselves do not make the aircraft dangerous to fly, but simply mean that it cannot fly at supersonic speed. An engine surge is one such drill, but the surge could be caused by the engine itself or a failure in it's variable intake. If it is the later the engine will work OK at subsonic speeds and a normal 4 engine landing can be made.

What ever the reason once the aircraft has to subsonic it's range is reduced by about 33% for the part of the trip still to do. Putting it a different way the fuel flow at supersonic speeds is the same as the fuel flow at Mach 0.95, the problem being that at 0.95 the aircraft is only covering half the distance for that fuel usedevery hour.[ figs are approximate ]

From this you can see [ I hope ] that the earlier on in the supersonic cruise that a failure occurs which causes the aircraft to go subsonic the more effect it has on the aircraft's range.
This has always been taken into consideration since Concorde first flew, and on East bound operations Shannon, then Cardiff, then Brize Norton, were all taken into account as diversions for fuel reasons. So if he went into Cardiff rather than Shannon the fuel figures for London must have been only marginally on the wrong side of good [ Better to be safe than sorry ]

This would not have been considered as an emergency as even the descent to subsonic speeds after the engine surge would have been the normal every day descent, and Cardiff has been used many times in the past for Concorde charter operations and I might say the staff at the airport always treated Concorde very well.

Sorry for going on for so long

regards Brit 312:O

[Air Mail]

And I thought it was because Air Wales had just purchased all the Concordes!!

[Cuban]

Please don't shot me for asking a simple question, but what is
"a rejected take off"

Is this a missed slot or an aborted take off or something else?

Thanks in advance

[no sponsor]

A rejected take off (RTO) is where the take-off run is stopped, prior to the point of no return; therefore an aborted take-off. The point of no return is calculated with reference to a specific speed being attained on the runway. This is referred to as V1 in pilot-speak.

After V1, the aircraft will continue to take-off, with any problems being taken into the air.

[Cuban]

Many thanks for clarification no sponsor.

Does anyone know if the RTO has any connection to the
in flight surge?

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

Strafer,

My mum's a Concorde nut. Every time she stays at my West London home she goes out in my garden to watch this plane on final. If it's going back to LHR today or tomorrow, could somebody in the know post a rough ETA here?


I believe the scheduled flights are due in to Heathrow around 5:30pm, but perhaps somebody else could confirm (I live too far east to see it arrive :hmm: . Don't know about weekends.

[CaptainFillosan]

I can see 002 over my house (near Epsom) most evenings at between 1700 and 1730 - give or take 15 minutes or so.

There was and UNDECLARED emergency some good few years ago now when the Captain refused to re-fuel at Shannon after the FO told him that they would be very very short on arrival at LHR.

It turned out that the FO was correct and Concorde could not make the stand after the CofG moved aft, it reared up like a praying mantis, becaue the required fuel for taxying had been used. The Captain should have known better and was subsequently..........shall we say given extended leave. He didn't return to BA.

[non sched]

I was passing through Bangor Maine about a week or 10 days ago and there was a Concorde on the ground there. The crew had made a landing after shutting down an engine. A fresh concorde had been dispatched to take the pax on to JFK. I didn't see this reported anywhere but I may have missed it. Seems the old birds are aware they're being put to rest and are getting a little testy.

[strafer]

Thanks RTFM,

I just wondered if the Cardiff plane was heading back to LHR today/tomorrow as well. Perhaps one of the nice Welsh ATCOs can tell me?

[oncemorealoft]

BA Concorde Alpha Golf landed at LHR at 15:32 local.

[hobie]

anyone know if Concorde Alph Fox is still in regular use? ....

cheers ... hobie ....

[Brit312]

Fillosan,
If we are going to quote an incident lets get the fact correct. The incident you quote the aircraft did land somewhat shorter of fuel than normal, but the aircraft did taxi quite normally to it's arrival stand and there was never any fear of it rearing up like a" praying mantis". The aircraft when it is towed requires that there is 4,000 kgs of fuel in it's forwrd tank [tank 9] and in the case you quote there was somewhat less than that and the ground crew asked for the aircraft to be refuelled so that there was the required amount in tank 9 and that is how the incident came to light.

It is very difficult to be sure of the exact amount you will land with on Concorde due to the very high fuel flows at 250 kts,
all you can be sure off is what fuel you will arrive at the holding pattern with [ once round a hold cost Concorde 1,000kgs of fuel every time ] and all you need is a controller to give you, for what ever reason, an unexpected extended down wind, and you can land with somewhat less fuel than you expected.

The reason the Captain got in to trouble was not really for the low fuel figure , but because he failed to report it. Also that particular captain was not the most popular on the fleet and many of the crew took the chance to settle old scores. Popular or not without his previous work on the commercial side of Concorde's operation, it would not have gone onto be the success it was for BA

regards brit312

[BahrainLad]

Didn't Alpha-Golf divert to Bangor, Maine last week as well as to Cardiff yesterday?

[strafer]

Thanks again,

Err, no she didn't. Still, not long till 5:15 (ish).

[Frangible]

"What happens if Concorde has to go subsonic onroute, say midway over the Atlantic (does it burn more or less fuel?), and where would it then divert to?"

Nearest aircraft carrier?

Assume max weight at TO and engine out at exact midway point and adverse but not unusual winds. Does it make land?

[norodnik]

Frangible,

the designers thought of every eventuality and that is ultimately why Concorde ended up with Delta wings as they allow the aircraft to float much better.

Also, as you may have read in some of the more technical books, when Concorde lands, its wings trap a lot of air which acts like a cushion. Thus also aids in water landings.

Finally, the pointy nose, which helps enormously when going fast, also helps in cutting through the water, thus speeding up the tow back to port


To date, Concorde has never managed to have a problem at just the wrong moment and therefore we have been spared the undoubted spectacle of picking up passengers mid-atlantic

[Brit312]

Concorde like all aircraft must have a point to which it can go, and when crossing the Atlantic the capability of returning to Northern Canada [eg gander], or to continue on to Shannon, over lap each other, so at one point the aircraft can either go back or continue on.

Concorde uses more fuel for a given distance when it is subsonic compared to that used when it is supersonic

[Globaliser]

A couple more quick questions for the experts, out of curiosity:-

1. When SSC goes subsonic in an incident like this one, what sort of altitude can she maintain? Will she stay within her block or would ATC have to make sure there is no conflict with other aircraft using the conventional altitudes?

2. Would the current very healthy loads have made a difference as to whether a diversion was necessary? If the same thing had occurred at the same point with a very light (pre-9 April?) load, might she have been able to continue to LHR in any event?

[EastMids]

It was indeed ironic that the news about the Concorde diversion to Cardiff arose at the same time as Europe's biggest airline maintenance repair and overhaul conference was taking place in no other place than... Cardiff!!! :oh: Gave the gathered masses something extra to talk about this morning!

Still, at least it had the good grace to do it after Rod Eddington's speech! :D

Andy

[CaptainFillosan]

Brit321

I believe I have the facts reasonably correct. Perhaps the insect analogy was ott but the rest isn't. It was in fact a serious situation. The Captain WAS alerted to the fact that there would be a shortage of fuel at LHR by the FO and he ignored it - for whatever reason. That then jeapordised the safety of the aircraft. The ground crew could not tow her because she too light on the nose gear to tow - for being short of fuel.

It is also true that he didn't report it. But the CAA were then involved because the FO became ill over the incident. He was off flying for some considerable time. As you must know. A full investigation was undertaken by the CAA.

The Captain was given choices - the one he chose was the only available.

However, apart from his breathtaking arrogance he did promote Concorde well. Just a pity he had to..................oh well, he still enjoys his gardening I expect.

[Airbubba]

'"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary," said Danny Ferris, a passenger from San Francisco who was traveling on Concorde for the first time.'


Here' s the inevitable "I heard a bang and I knew we wuz gonna die" article:


______________________________________

Posted on Thu, Sep. 18, 2003

BA Concorde Mishap Frightens Passengers
JACK GARLAND
Associated Press

LONDON - They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus.

Things started to go really wrong on the $6,600-a-seat Concorde with a frightening backfire over the Atlantic Ocean. Before it was over, the plane had dropped from supersonic to subsonic speed, was running out of fuel and made an unscheduled landing in Wales.

Even passengers who know the Concorde is about to be retired forever were shocked by the service.

Like many people aboard Wednesday's British Airways Concorde flight, John Crelly and his companion, Mhairi Watson, were looking forward to some serious luxury on the world's only remaining supersonic civilian aircraft.

"The whole point of the trip was to have a fantastic holiday followed by the experience of flying on Concorde," Crelly, a 39-year-old London businessman, said Thursday.

But things got off to a bumpy start in New York. The departure from Kennedy Airport was delayed for an hour by a faulty light.

Then, three-quarters of the way into the trans-Atlantic flight, the Concorde experienced an "engine surge," meaning the flow of air through one of its engines was disrupted, causing it to backfire.

"There was a bang like we'd hit a brick wall, and then the pilot came on saying something like we'd lost an engine," said Patricia Ayearst, a retired commercial artist from New York, speaking to journalists Thursday.

Ayearst said the flight was her second on Concorde, which is to be retired permanently in October.

"I traveled with them 20 years ago and everything went off perfectly. I thought that I'd take this flight because it was my last chance before they went out of service," she said.

The plane, a favored method of trans-Atlantic travel for pop stars and business tycoons, was traveling at a supersonic speed of 1,300 mph over the Atlantic Ocean when the engine problem occurred. The pilot immediately slowed the plane to subsonic speed.

"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary," said Danny Ferris, a passenger from San Francisco who was traveling on Concorde for the first time.

"We suddenly just dropped. The air crew quickly packed everything up and told us the captain was very busy but would speak to us shortly. Finally he came on the line to tell us what had happened," Crelly said.

The Concorde was forced to fly at subsonic speeds for the rest of the flight, but because that uses more fuel than supersonic speed, the plane had to land at Cardiff International airport in Wales.

Passengers - who had each paid at least $6,585 for the trip - were asked to board a bus for the 110-mile drive to Heathrow Airport.

Concorde, which British Airways and Air France began flying commercially in 1976, can normally travel the 3,000 miles between London and New York in just three hours, 20 minutes, about half the time of a conventional airliner.

Altogether, Wednesday's journey took nearly 10 hours.

British Airways said the landing had not been an emergency, the safety of the 99 passengers and six crew members was never compromised and no one was injured. There also has been no change to other Concorde flights, the airline said.

Steve Double, a British Airways spokesman, said the passengers would receive frequent flyer miles as compensation, but no refund. The airline's remaining Concorde flights are sold out, he said, so passengers will have to use their miles on subsonic flights.

The Concorde's problems mushroomed three years ago.

In July 2000, an Air France Concorde crashed outside Paris, killing all 109 people on board and four people on the ground.

Air France and British Airways, which created the airplane together, immediately grounded their fleets of Concordes but resumed service to New York in November 2001, after spending over $27.2 million on safety improvements.

In April, Air France and British Airways announced their Concorde fleets would be permanently grounded.

Air France ran its last flight in May, and British Airways plans to retire its Concordes at the end of October, prompting some passengers to buy tickets before the jet fades into history.

[WelshFlyer]

Did anyone see that mad american pax on the news? yaking on about "engines dropping off, and passengers getting thrown all over the cabin"?

I wonder how much champange he had consumed on the flight:)

Or is it just another case of "lets get the best complainers to give aviation, and an historic aircraft to boot, a kick while it's down?

[tcr2]

Jongar, and the other elitist pricks, who through your postings imply that civilisation stops the moment you drive west over the Severn bridge, get a life!!!
Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.

[Jordan D]

Is AG due to be back in service directly?

Jordan

[strafer]

To get the full effect of that Associated Press article, you should try and imagine it being read out by that bloke with a deep voice who does the voiceovers for American movie trailers:
"In a land - that time forgot...", "It was a place - like no other...", "They took off from New York on the world's fastest passenger jet and pulled into London's Heathrow Airport nearly half a day later - on a bus".

[BahrainLad]

That unbelievable article was probably written by a septic aviation reporter with a photo of a 2707 behind his desk........

I can't imagine the people who write this garbage. Makes one seriously want to go into aviation journalism.

[Gaza]

Jongar, and the other elitist pricks, who through your postings imply that civilisation stops the moment you drive west over the Severn bridge, get a life!!!

Cardiff is (and was) capable of handling the situation. End of story. Now piss off and enjoy the rest of you sorry little life.

WoooHooo! There is always some who will rise to a bit of light hearted baiting. jongar had the good sense to put this := smilie on his post to show the remark was made with humour. Dont be so touchy tcr2. Take a chill pill and then go back to bed. Your favorite sheep is waiting for you! :ok:

[ormonde]

As far as that AP report by Jack Garland goes, all I can say is -What hype from the Yanks. Can’t they ever get over the fact that they didn’t have their own supersonic commercial passenger carrier.
Jealousy will out!

[newswatcher]

Bahrainlad, at the risk of exposing myself to ridicule, :ouch: what was unbelievable about the posting by Airbubba? I pulled out a few quotes at random the plane had dropped from supersonic to subsonic speed, was running out of fuel and made an unscheduled landing in Wales. so it didn't do this? The departure from Kennedy Airport was delayed for an hour by a faulty light. Are you saying there was no RTO, or it wasn't due to a "faulty light"? We suddenly just dropped. The air crew quickly packed everything up and told us the captain was very busy but would speak to us shortly. Finally he came on the line to tell us what had happened Sounds routine. The Concorde was forced to fly at subsonic speeds for the rest of the flight, but because that uses more fuel than supersonic speed, the plane had to land at Cardiff International airport in Wales. Untrue?

So apart from the Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary :mad: what else did you find unbelievable?
:confused:

[strafer]

I don't want to reply on Bahrainlad's behalf but it may well have been the way the article was written; a paragraph of screaming hyperbole followed by a fact, a paragraph of screaming hyperbole followed by a fact, etc. It's not was was said but the way it was reported. And lazy, sensationalist ****e it was too.

[newswatcher]

I guess the guy is writing for his intended audience, whoever that might be. I would expect a difference between an article written for Flight International and one for the Mirror. :yuk: And yes, I did note he has posted two different seat prices!! :=

I have read many examples of journalistic sensationalism but I really did not think this was one of them. You should have seen some of the articles after the Paris tragedy!

It's Friday, and I'm looking for a "5 minute" argument. So strafer, perhaps you would like to give three examples of "screaming hyperbole", or something "unbelievable".

[strafer]

Can't be arsed - going home - read it again.

Bye

[newswatcher]

Not because they were too difficult to find then!:E

[BahrainLad]

Newswatcher, the other meaning of "unbelievable" in this context is incredulity at the tone of the article.

It can be unbelievable that Beckham left Manchester United, but that doesn't mean it's untrue.

To take the common usage of "unbelievable" at its most literal is the worst kind of semantic pedantry.

Although having said that, I seriously doubt the veracity of
"Glass and plates were flying and people were screaming. It was very scary."

which sounds to me like a quote extracted from, rather than proferred by, a witness.

[newswatcher]

Bahrainlad, I think we may be in agreement. My point was that, taking that particular quote out of the article, I could not see anything else in the "oh god we are going to die" school of journalism.

Some of the reports in the UK tabloids concerning holiday flight incidents contain many heinous examples! :mad:

Maybe it's time for me to do a POETS, like strafer!

[jongar]

dear sheep shagger,

i saw a political broadcast from plaid cumry last night - the welsh want the euro and a place in the UN - small countries hould be respected. Fine - you can raise your own taxes and forget money from central goverment - accept it you inbread tosser - you need us more than we need you - i mean for godsake your part french:ok:

[BahrainLad]

Yes, we probably are in agreement but I maintain that the tone of the article is damaging to Concorde, BA etc.

This can be demonstrated by CNN: they have used the same AP story, but added their own headline.

"Passengers tell of Concorde horror."

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/09/18/uk.concorde.ap/index.html

Pathetic.

[My names Turkish]

I liked the bit about the Engines "Backfiring", sounds like detonation, they must have had the mixture set too lean:p Although I was dissapointed that there was no mention of a Crash Landing, thats my all time fav.

[newswatcher]

:hmm: "horror" is stretching the envelope somewhat.

Using expressions like the pilot came on saying something like we'd lost an engine may well have raised thoughts about a lump of metal falling to the sea below! :D

[donder10]

Would the captain,who landed ended up at the gate with less than 4,000 kgs,have been a certain fleet manager at the time?

[Lump Jockey]

Wedge, I for one am glad you posted this, as I was at LHR the day in question, awaiting Concorde's arrival! Heard she went into Cardiff but no reason was given...... but now I know, cheers!
LJ.

[Wedge]

Thanks. Although it was just the fact that I saw the story on teletext about an hour after it happened, and I saw there was not yet a thread in R&N. Was quite big news as you can see.

Yes the original story was not quite correct, but I put the word 'emergency' in the title as that was the way it was reported with very scant detail about an hour after it happened. At that stage it is impossible to know the severity of the problem - but a problem of this type could certainly warrant an emergency if the pilots believed there was any danger. The point of this site is to get the facts as soon as possible, and correct any misreporting as soon as possible.

Every time I see Concorde fly over now I think to myself it is one of the very last times I will see it, she has been a regular visitor here my whole life. I will miss her. :{

[Lloydm]

Personally I thought it was ironic that the same day a Concorde diverted to Cardiff myself and several hundred people including Rod E, Roy Mcnulty et al were attending MRO Europe at the Cardiff Arena yet I didnt hear anybody shout "Concordes gone tech is anybody here an engineer"?

I hope the complimenary tour of BA Eng,which I declined, were well on there way back to a bar when the old banger came in. :E

[birdbrain]

I think if I was a passenger being charged a high ticket price for speed I would have expected to be met at the diversion airfield by another aircraft and quickly ushered onward to original destination ASAP. I am assuming el capitane knew he'd be short and could've radioed ahead for preparations in plenty of time...

MAJOR failure on operators part methinks, or, - perhaps they're starting a 'lowfare' service on the quiet .... pick an airport somewhere near the destination and have a bus for the last 2.5% of the journey

[SevernTMA]

And how exactly would they find a spare aircraft, spare crew and position it to Cardiff in an hour or even two?

[birdbrain]

Fek, they were able to find a 'spare' concorde AND crew to get off to Gander for the other shower stuck there....
So c'mon don't try that one... you must be either union or management, not a fixer.. !!!:rolleyes:

[Gerald Bostock]

BA Website reporting that BA2 cancelled today (2 October) ?

[birdbrain]

See there now, Severn TMA... 'where could you rattle up an a/c +crew in a couple of hours' - (not quoted -cos I know you're picky..)
Typical, boo hoo I have to work,:( :{ brit attitude... see what the Dutch can do.... ya guther ya !:mad:

KLM 744 Diverted into Cork yesterday, 767 sent over to aid departure to final destination..... ;) :cool:

One gets wot one pays for, so much for BA and Conk ...:yuk::ok: :ok: