NOTAMS and MET, I've seen the light

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just found this, and since it seems to accurately source all the UK information, think that my troubles worries and gripes are all over...

http://ippc.nais.luftfartsverket.no/ippc/AisAerodrome1.html

Unless somebody knows of anything I've missed, I shall never darken the door of the AIS website again unless I actually need to look up the AIP.

G


N.B. the narrow route briefing doesn't work unless you use at least one airfield in Norway, but the FIR and airfield briefing does and is SOOOO much more user friendly than the homegrown version. Norway for the world cup!.

N.B.B. One thing I did notice playing with it is that there's a GPS jamming exercise going on but that only shows up on an IFR brief, and not on a VFR-only brief.

[chrisN]

I'm puzzled. I just checked the AIS website for NOTAMs for 17.9.03 and got a list (narrow route, EGSC-EGSD, 40 miles wide).

Then checked the Norway site, FIR only (EGTT) and lots of things on the AIS list were not on Norway's.

One example - the Andover-all-over south-england mentioned in a Flyer Air Portal thread.

Am I doing it wrong, or is there a different selection (dangerously so)?

Chris N

[bookworm]

What you've missed, Genghis, is that only certain NOTAM series are available on the Norwegian site. The EGTT brief gives mostly series B and some series E NOTAMs.

What's missing is, for example, all the Nav warnings, which come in series H. For example, there's a BBMF flypast at Henlow today, and a PJE at Colchester. They don't get a mention on the Norwegian site because they are series H.

Not all NOTAMs are disseminated outside the UK, which is why it's important to use a UK source for flights originating in the UK.

[High Wing Drifter]

The GPS jamming notice is shown on the VFR NOTAM. I have seem it for the last few weeks? I select General+Misc BTW.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Damn, I thought it was too good to be true.

However, if nothing else, it gives a good model for what the UK service should ideally look like.

G


<Break>

Well that was interesting. I ran both, putting in a VFR route from EGLS to EGNC through EGTT. (Old Sarum to Carlisle via London FIR).

The Norwegian output printed at 2 pages, the UK output at 14.

Missing from the Norwegian output were numerous displays, flybys, chimneys cranes and u/s obstruction lights. It also didnt include any navaid unservieabilities. It failed to pick up the airfield NOTAMs, which were in the UK NOTAMS, one of which was parachute dropping near Carlisle airfield and more than incidental to safety.

On the other hand, the UK version didn't include the TAF data which personally I think is a very useful inclusion, nor strangely did it include the activation of Barkstone Heath ATZ which is in the Norwegian data.

Oh well, I still think that in terms of user-friendliness the Norwegian system has much going for it, but if the data's not there I can't use it. What a shame.

Roll on public domain graphical information.

G


(GPS jamming was in the Norwegian IFR NOTAM, but not the Norwegian VFR NOTAM)

[DamienB]

For example, there's a BBMF flypast at Henlow today, and a PJE at Colchester. They don't get a mention on the Norwegian site because they are series H.

What's the reasoning behind this then?

Gawd help you if you're flying in from Norway and pile into a Lancaster at some point eh!!

[Mike Cross]

One would have to ask the Norweigans.

It's not at all uncommon for State NOTAM offices not to take all of the NOTAM from another country. Our own AIS does not for example take the French domestic series.

Generally speaking the system reflects the idea that if your flight takes you outside the State in which it originates then you will be following a "normal" international flight profile and will be landing at a port of entry.

Which is why you should be taking a briefing from the State within whose airspace the flight originates, not from an overseas source.

Hands up all those who think you get NOTAM from the AIS or NATS websites.

?????????????



WRONG! :{
There is no officially recognised source of UK NOTAM on the web.

What you get is a pre-Flight Information Bulletin (PIB) which omits the data used by AIS and commercial briefing services to produce a PIB.

While NotamPlot, NotamPro and Notam Check all have a go at producing and presenting the underlying data they cannot succeed until NOTAM themselves are released for download. There is no laid down format for PIB; NOTAM by contrast follow an ICAO defined format and include information specifically designed to permit selection and sorting for inclusion in a PIB.

I and others asked last November for the data to be released. NATS/AIS have no objection to its release, it is the CAA who are holding it up.

In the meantime if you want UK NOTAM you can get them from an AFTN feed or by a leased line or dial up connection to the NATS servers. All of these carry costs which mean they are effectively unavailable to the end users, UK pilots.

Mike

[Genghis the Engineer]

Which also means that I could have pulled NOTAMS from UK AIS, planned a VFR flight (no choice really since neither I nor the aircraft are allowed in airways) to see my second favourite Uncle who has retired to rural bliss near the customs airport and acceptable port of entry of Poitiers which is over an hours flying time into France, and en-route fly right through a display of the Patrouille de France that I knew nothing about.

Great. Maybe we should just chop national organisations out of this completely and ask Eurocontrol to handle it.

In the meantime Mike, do you know of any national AIS website which does take the entire NOTAM/PIB feeds from all adjacent countries?

And why am I sat here at this time of night waiting for somebody to fax me a W&CG report so that I can finish signing-off their aeroplane?

G

[Mike Cross]

Sorry Ghengis, don't know of any.

I should have said that I suspect also the assumption is that you will be getting at least a FIS as you are required to call at the national boundary.

I have no idea what the French domestic series contains but I do recall being at Popham a year or so ago, seeing a very pretty formation of our own Red Arrows on a low level transit just to north, and thinking "that might have given me a surprise had I been over there". AFIK the positioning flights aren't notammed so you have total equality with the French in the odds of running into the national display team.:O

Mike

[witchdoctor]

Wouldn't get too concerned about any PJE at Carlisle. It is permanently NOTAMed, yet I have never seen any taking place. Must be some new stealth parachute they're testing up here.;)

[FlyingForFun]

I should have said that I suspect also the assumption is that you will be getting at least a FIS as you are required to call at the national boundaryIn my (admittedly fairly limited) experience of French ATC, in Class D or lower airspace they really don't care. They'll issue you with a clearance in Class D, and that's about it. I was once told, about 5nm into a 30nm Class D crossing, "Do not contact me again except in an emergency. You may continue to monitor this frequency whilst inside the zone if you like." I certainly wouldn't expect the French to tell me about a NOTAM which I had failed to read, whether the failure to read it was my fault or not.

FFF
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