Logbook Dept. / Arrival Times

[Speedbird252]

Evening all,

From the outset of my PPL, I have never included the Departure / Arrival times in my logbook as they have been local training flights, circuit & Nav work. Ive now completed the solo navex`s and have 50 hours and its suddenly dawned on me that maybe I should have done!

Obviously I have the relavent 0.8 & 1.2 etc in the P1 & Dual columns but no indication of how this came to be.

Will this be a problem when I have to send it off to the CAA?

Regards,

Speedy:ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I was told to fill in the times only for XC flights. I've no idea what the basis for this instruction was. I got the licence.

[FlyFreeWbe]

Where did you learn Gertrude? I notice you're in Cambridge.. Well I go to the Marshalls there and from day 1 (in 2000) they got me to put start/end taxi time (a bit more than depart/arrive time). I don't think it matters much what time you go, just how much you've done. If we decide not to put start/end taxi time, @ Cambs we have another book that keeps track for us. Do you have that at yours Speedbird?

FFW

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Where did you learn Gertrude? Marshalls. But many years ago. (They didn't dip the tanks before every flight then either like they do now.)

[FlyFreeWbe]

Oh ok. That was probably under the old manager :=
I think the reason I was given is that the CAA would be better able to cross check any inconsistencies in adding up hours. Does seem kinda unecessary I guess.

[Keef]

Eh? You mean takeoff/landing time, as well as chock times? Or no times at all?

In my logbook I record what the official instructions say - the time the aircraft started to move under its own power with the intention of flying, to the time it stopped ditto. If it didnt fly after all, then I log nothing.

For the Tech Log, I show also the takeoff and touchdown times. So four times - 0920, 0930, 1045, 1048 or whatever.

[englishal]

I have never logged single "time" (as in 1248) in my logbook, seems like it makes extra un-nescessary work.

EA

[BEagle]

'Chocks away' to 'chocks under', rounded to the nearest 5 minutes, recorded in proper hours and minutes - not 'decimal time' as used by Spams and grunts.

Started that way in 1968, still doing it that way.

Military time, however, is start of take-off roll to end of landing roll.

[Maxflyer]

I go by brakes off to brakes on rounded to nearest 5 minutes.

[SimJock]

I've always logged four times as per Keefs mail, seems essential to me, especially if you share a flight with someone else and only want to log half of it as P1 etc. Also required possibly to log night hours ?

Think now, if the CAA came knocking on your door complaining of a low flying incident you could show them your logged times and clearly show that at the time of the incident you were safely at home relaxing in the garden with a beer and not PIC of said aircraft ;)

[Julian]

Never logged the actual time only flight duration and always recorded it as a decimal - logbook has been to CAA a few times but never any problems.

[Holdposition]

Brakes OFF to Brakes ON for the licence hours.

Airbornre time re the tech log.


Always worked for me and the very nice people at Gatwick seem to accept that way no problem:O

Speedbird:

If you intend to use club aircraft you will find many that charge 5 mins either way plus airborne time to calculate the hours. As this is what you pay for then thats what you put in as it ties up with the log, however if you are kept at the hold for 20 mins or so then!!!!!!

[Whirlybird]

I've been told by several people that flight duration is the only actual requirement.

[IO540]

Brakes off to brakes on for the pilot's own logbook.

Airborne time for the aircraft logbooks (journey, airframe, engine, propeller etc) and all hour-based maintenance is based on airborne time.

There should be no question about this, surely?

[Circuit Basher]

Interesting one, this: I always log brakes off / brakes on and (just to upset BEagle ;)) and decimal time elapsed ['coz it's a lot easier to add up at the end of each page!! :)].

Checking in CAP393 (Air Nav Order), it says in Section 1 Part IV Para 28 (on Page 37) (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF) :28 (1) Every member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom and every person who engages in flying for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order shall keep a personal flying log book in which the following particulars shall be recorded:
(a) the name and address of the holder of the log book;
(b) particulars of the holder ’s licence (if any)to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft;and
(c) the name and address of his employer (if any).
(2) Particulars of each flight during which the holder of the log book acted either as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft or for the purpose of qualifying for the grant or renewal of a licence under this Order,as the case may be,shall be recorded in the log book at the end of each flight or as soon thereafter as is reasonably practicable, including:
(a) the date,the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in
either capacity;
(b) the type and registration marks of the aircraft;
(c) the capacity in which the holder acted in flight;
(d) particulars of any special conditions under which the flight was conducted,
including night flying and instrument flying;and
(e) particulars of any test or examination undertaken whilst in flight.

Fairly ambiguous statement, but I would read time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in either capacity as meaning that only elapsed time is actually required. However, it would seem to me to be good airmanship and a protector of your little dangly bits (female pilots insert your own favoured anatomical parts here! ;)) to record the actual times that you spent a 'sole manipulator of controls for the purposes of flight' (or whatever the term is) so that when the CAA come visiting to accuse you of various misdemeanours, you can check whether it was in fact you!

[englishal]

Think now, if the CAA came knocking on your door complaining of a low flying incident you could show them your logged times and clearly show that at the time of the incident you were safely at home relaxing in the garden with a beer and not PIC of said aircraft

Or they could use it as evidence against you ! :D

[SlipSlider]

I'm slightly bemused as to why anybody would NOT want to record start / finish times for all flights, be they circuits, navex, cross-country land away, upside down or ...... :confused:

Takes all of ... 10 seconds??

[FlyFreeWbe]

My logbook actually says, that officially it's time you commence first taxi (ie brakes off) to time stopped taxi (landed, brakes off - minus the shutdown checks) all rounded to nearest 5 minutes. The only difference is that we just knock off 10 mins for actual flight time to put in the TechLog. If taxi to runway, checks and clearances take longer then we're more specific.