Air Sickness - Advice on remedies

[jackyboy]

On Monday, my long suffering (non flying) wife plucked up the courage to take to the air with me in a 152. We flew into Manston (Nice helpful people. Massive rnwy. Well worth a visit). I was a good boy and kept everything as smooth as possible and even kept the banks to no more the 30 degrees. Having felt sick all the way there, she was sick when I was on final into Manston. (I had a sickbag on board)
She was better on the way back, but still felt a bit sick. It has not put her off going again, but wants to avoid the throwing up bit.

Anyone had the same problem and found a good over the counter medication that works???

[Evo]

I'm not sure that you really need medicine. The most important thing is just familiarity and confidence - i expect most of us felt airsick at some point when we started training, I certainly did. Apart from that don't fly with an empty stomach (something light with lots of carbs is ideal, e.g. a bagel or some fruit - obviously that full English breakfast isn't). Ginger works well too, you can get it in capsules at any supermarket. If all that fails then it might be worth looking for some medicine, but I doubt it will be necessary.

[jackyboy]

'Medicine' was probably the wrong word. Anything thing that would help, Herbal etc............

Evo

Noted what you advise.....with thanks

[pulse1]

Although I've never used it for flying myself, I do occasionally use Stugeron for long, rough sailing trips when I know I am going to spend some time down below.

It certainly seems to work. One of the minipulses uses it for rare sailing trips and flying. Neither of us is aware of any side effects at all. A colleague had it prescribed for a balance problem and he was taking about 8 a day without any noticeable side effects and was certainly allowed to drive while he was taking them.

I certainly endorse Evo's thoughts on diet.

p1

[RomeoTangoFoxtrotMike]

ISTR that when Jeremy Clarkson was about to throw-up in the back of an F-15, the pilot's remedy was to make him hold the stick.... and then say "you have control !" :ooh:

[Whirlybird]

Something I've done with passengers...tell them to put their hands gently on the control column, look out the front, and pretend they're flying it, just as though they were driving a car. It usually sorts out the balance problem, and they feel better. And I'd keep the banking to 15 degrees if you can, till she gets used to it.

As to remedies - ginger is pretty good; the fresh stuff better than tablets. Nelsons do a homeopathic travel sickness remedy; some people find it works. And you can buy acupuncture bands in Boots, that works for some people too.

She'll probably be OK with familiarity and some of the above. If not, since she's not actually the pilot, I'd say buy any travel sickness tablets, and find out which ones don't have side effects for her, since it varies with individuals. Boots own brand ones don't seem to have side effects for most people.

Tell her I sympathise; I still get airsick in some extreme conditions, though rarely when I'm doing the flying, luckily!!!

[Maxflyer]

Try asking her to focus on a fixed point in the distance. This works for most kinds of motion sickness and whatsmore you don't have to ingest anything to do it.

[Circuit Basher]

Jackyboy - maybe a C152 isn't the optimal introductory machine (as it's a bit light and prone to bouncing around a bit in turbulence). C172 / PA28 and the ilk may give your wife a bit more feeling of space / air. Make sure you achieve the perfect balance between supplying fresh air, keeping the cockpit warm enough and not being too hot, also shading her from direct sun (although a C150 naturally does that quite well from many aspects!!). Get her involved with things (airspace scan, maybe radio after some experience - I would suggest nav, but being heads down in a map wouldn't help much!) to take her mind off it.

Mrs CB (when going to sea off the west coast of Scotland for a 6 week sonar trial - don't ask! ;)) used Sea Bands (elasticated cloth bands worn over the acupressure points on the wrists) with much positive effect. I was convinced that they relied on the placebo effect, but it used to get to the stage where she would spot when one had slipped of the correct presure point by the way she felt.

Part of it is probably nerves and the stress of a new situation, which may abate over time.

Alternately, you could just adopt the military approach - strap her in tight and keep doing aeros until she stops being sick!! :D :D

This has been discussed a few times on the Medical and Health Forum - see attached threads:
Airsickness Medical & Health Link 1 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41233)
Airsickness Medical & Health Link 2 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74167)
Airsickness Medical & Health Link 3 (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89833)
[Edited to add in some links]
Good luck! :yuk: ;)

[vintage ATCO]

ISTR that when Jeremy Clarkson was about to throw-up in the back of an F-15, the pilot's remedy was to make him hold the stick.... and then say "you have control !"

Yes, but wasn't the response "No I haven't" and then chucked!? ;)

[NinjaBill]

I would agre with maxflyer, looking at somewhere in the distance ahead, or out the side to the side closeset normally works quite well. Nothing makes you feel ill faster than looking at a load of spinning dials in front of you

NB

[Tiger_ Moth]

I'm pretty sure you can't get any medicine powerful enough to overcome airsickness, and I know because I tryed. Good news is you don't need them: Like with most things you will just get used to it, maybe quicker than you think.
On my first lesson I felt BAD and worried about it a lot. Second lesson I felt absolutely fine and wondered how it could be. I was sure the worthless tablets I took weren't responsible so I didn't use them again and ever since I've been fine and am now getting used to aeros, last trip I didn't feel bad at all.

As already said there are probably only two things to do to help yourself and those are:
1) Eat something
2) Pretend you are flying the plane, helps if the pilot announces what way he's going so the passenger can be ready

[flyingfemme]

I think Whirlybird has the answer
I still get airsick in some extreme conditions, though rarely when I'm doing the flying

It's the same for me - sometimes feel ill in the right seat but NEVER in the left:ok:

Perhaps you should treat Mrs JackyBoy to a trial lesson?

[Obs cop]

Having suffered from acute motion sickness for my time in military aviation and also now in civil aviation, I feel I can add plenty of advice.

However, rather than type it all out again, can I refer you to my post on the following thread

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=89833

Stugeron is quite a good aid for combatting motion sickness as are "Qwells". However, both do have side effects of causing drowsyness. Certainly taking 8 a day would cause some effects!

In any case, your wife may well become more adjusted to it the more exposure to flying she has, and you may not need to take the more drastic measures.

Good luck,

Obs cop

[Flash0710]

Ginger is just wrong;)

Don't even mention it.

Hype will sometimes initate vom

Regular repeated flying is the best prescription.:ok:

[A Very Civil Pilot]

Ginger does help in preventing airsickness.

Bananas are also good. They taste of banana going down, and still taste of banana coming back up again. :yuk:

[jackyboy]

Many thanks to one & all for the replies. Mrs says thanks as well.

She can't stand Ginger, but will give the wrist bands/diet a go as this doesn't involve tablets.

Thanks again.

[Davidt]

I too have a wife prone to motion sickness - cars ,boats, my flying, she doesn't discriminate.

Stugeron works but sends her to sleep, I bought a pair of the acupressure wrist bands from Boots but we havent tried them yet without the Stugeron.

Some things that have helped;

Never take her up in anything but the best weather

Fly as high as the airspace allows, you get a lot less bumps at 4k+

My one prefers flying above cloud or at night on the basis that she's happier when she cannt see the ground!

Always make your trips a treat, a there and back to a god forsaken ex-RAF base in Nowhere-on the- Marsh is fun for you hell for her. A slap up nosh in a 5star French will keep her wanting to come with you. The psycological effect on a reluctant passenger shouldn't be overlookd.

Have fun

[baldwim]

jackboy,

I fly and have in the past very frequently fely sick, particularly after long gaps in my flying. I would agree that it does pass (for me at least) the more regularly I fly.

However, if I know I am going to do a long proficiency check where the plane may be thrown about a bit for over an hour I am definitely going to feel I'll. I have recently tried boots travel sickness tablets when undertaking a check with an instructor on a very bumpy day. It did the trick! Removed any tendency to feel sick. I now have them with me for any dual flying where there might be a problem.

Obviously I do not take them when solo. It does say on the packet that it may cause drowsiness but I have never had any problem. I only take one though.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Promethazine is what the shuttle astronauts use and space sickness is said to be far worse than sea or air sickness. It is reportedly very effective and in terms of drowsiness they have found that people on promethazine are less drowsy and more able to perform tasks than those suffering from space sickness.

I am pinning my hopes on this stuff for a forthcoming boat journey to the Antarctic. It had better work or I may come back very thin!

QDM

[strafer]

Salt water's good for vomiting.

Errm, am I being a bit thick or is the answer not in Human Performance 101 (as our American cousins would say)? Motion sickness is caused by the brain not the stomach, therefore how will drugs or ginger(?) work.

The nausea is caused by an imbalance between what you see and what your body tells you is happening kinetically. When you fly, you look out of the window and see the aircraft move in sync with what your body feels*. When you are a nervous passenger you stare at your feet yet still feel the same movements. Brain says, "Err, bit confused - best hurl".

As mentioned above, other factors (too hot & stuffy, etc) can aggravate this, but looking out of the window and pretending she has control should help a lot.

* No "What about IMC?" comments please, just think it through

[Penguina]

Know lots about this because I hate boats and don't like cars much either, though don't normally find flying a problem from this point of view.

Certain things aggravate symptoms of motion sickness that are to do with the stomach, even if they don't cause it initially: excess acid from hunger, rich food or nerves, tensing your muscles from nerves, things like that.

A good old fashioned remedy that no one has mentioned is peppermint - really soothes the stomach. I took packets of polos up with me when I was doing upper airwork training, especially the bits that involved dramatic changes of vertical motion (eg stall - climbout) and found it really, really helped.

An instructor mentioned to me that it's good to tell people to breathe through their nose (he explained why, but I can't remember). Worth a try.

[Aim Far]

Opal fruits (or Starburst or whatever they are) work for me in mild bumpiness - I think its probably as much to do with chewing as anything else but the sugar presumably helps too.

[Rupert S]

I used to get terrible airsickness but after about 30 hours training it suddenly stopped and hasn't come back since. I'd advise against drugs like Sturgeron as, in my experience, they make you feel tired and crap afterwards (Sturgeron had me out for 2 days :} ). Ginger has almost worked for me but i'm not sure if it was the ginger or that it was a still day. I think it's really more down to going up more often and getting used to it.

[24Right]

Strafer, yes you are being thick! As a sufferer (esp boats and as I scuba dive, this is a bit of a problem) I know that how your stomach feels is VERY relevant.

Yes, the theory is correct in that it is initially caused by balance issues, but the ultimate extent of it and whether you merely feel ill or actually barf depends in part on how your stomach feels. Empty stomach not good. Stomach full of egg and fried bread, even worse.

I only suffer during excess G. As a result I hate new aircraft conversion where I know I'm going to have to do steep turns and the like. 45 deg. are usually OK, but repeated 60 deg turns do it for me every time. Throw in a few stalls and recoveries with PFLs for good measure and I'll be reaching for the sick bag. :yuk:

For me, only drugs work. Ginger, homeopathic herby things etc have no effect on me and have never helped the little 24Rs in cars or planes. However the drugs do cause drowsiness, so I never use them without an instructor in the RHS.

I've tried all the usual things - looking out of the window, switching on the fresh air, holding the stick (obviously, as I'm generally doing the flying at the time) but for me, if it's going to happen there's nothing I can do to stop it except land once I feel the symptoms getting worse. I have no patience for the "get a grip, it's all in the mind" merchants - they haven't a clue.

Strangely, normal flying, even in moderate turbulence or in RHS doesn't affect me and I didn't barf at all during the IMC training.

[strafer]

24Right - Yorkshireman, eh? Nice to see you're kicking against the sterotypes. :rolleyes:

I never said "get a grip, it's all in the mind". There is a difference between brain and mind. (Down south anyway ;) ). My point was that the decision to hurl is taken by the brain not the stomach. Obviously a succession of +/- g is going to wobble your stomach contents and could cause barfing that way. But (for example) if you see someone else being sick, it can make you feel naseous yourself, nothing to do with your tummy. Here's a trick for you - hold your abdomen very still and shake your head violently from side to side. How d'you feel? :yuk: . Thought so.

I said 'am I being a bit thick' because one would learn all this for the Human Performance exam, surely.

Still, each to his own, there's nowt as queer as folk, etc

[DRJAD]

I've only been nearly airsick once, and that was early on when spin recovery was being demonstrated.

Fortunately, I went for my medical shortly after that, and the wise old AME who examined me said that the way to avoid airsickness was to avoid fighting the movement. Just 'hang in the straps' and go with the motion: that way you can see what's going on, you're not trying to tell yourself the motion ISN'T happening, and your sensations of movement match what's going on in your semi-circular canals.

It worked for me - no problems again.

(Hope that might help!)

[Vlax]

Wristbands worked with my 10-year-old boy.
Get her to keep it straight and level always works.
Flat shoes help, or even get her to put the shoes in the back and keep her feet flat on the floor.
:ok:

[24Right]

Strafer,

Only a Yorkshireman by address, but still from Up North and as you noted I'm trying to fit in and not stand out too much from the natives.

I didn't suggest that you said it was all in the mind, that was merely a development of the discussion. I agree, the brain (or at least the balance mechanism - I assume they have those dahn sahf) is largely to blame, but the point I was making is that the difference between :yuk: and :D in a given situation can be the contents of the stomach (before they make an appearance). If you suffer from motion sickness eating nothing or a greasy meal will not help at all.

I suppose at least the possibility of sickness will stop me trying aeros (which I'd dearly like to do) and so is likely to assist greatly in keeping me alive.:ok:

24R

[Evo]

Give aeros a go before convincing yourself that your stomach isn't up to it. I know I don't have the strongest guts, and I was worried that i'd be barfing within minutes but I don't really have problems (start to feel it at the end of a sortie while pulling G, but fine again once we're back straight and level - that's the cue to go home). Besides, I'm doing aeros in the hope that it will keep me alive - teaches you a hell of a lot about what an aeroplane can do, and how to get out of it if things go wrong. Fantastic confidence-builder, and great fun too :)

[paulo]

I'll second Evo on this.

I have a rubbish stomach, but got the aeros bug (doh!). Tolerance has steadily risen - I used to hate steep turns. Then it was just loops. Then just downlines. And so on.

Aside from building tolerance, the other great thing about aeros is that it really does alot for spacial awareness - close quarters at least. Chuck the rule book out. Horizon wrong? Stalled? Too fast / slow / too anything and you have instinctive options. Can't recommend it highly enough even if you just to the AOPA and leave it there.

As advice for a passenger though, this could be a bit ambitious :}