Former RAF Church Fenton
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madness!
CF is wayyy east of most of the population of the W Riding - if they won't go to Doncaster or Yeadon why will they drive all the way across Leeds and beyond to CF?
CF is wayyy east of most of the population of the W Riding - if they won't go to Doncaster or Yeadon why will they drive all the way across Leeds and beyond to CF?
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It actually takes longer on public transport to get to Yeadon than it does to get to church fenton from Bradford city centre.
Yeadon loses millions of potential Yorkshire passengers because they live on the two main arteries to MAN - the M62 and the trans pennine express. The ease of using these two options puts them off the stop start long winded struggle to get to Yeadon. Church fenton is on these two arteries (and more) and will be therefore wiil be easier to get to than Yeadon and quicker to get than MAN.
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The only towns that would find it easier/quicker to get to MAN if Leeds airport was to move to Church Fenton are those North East of the small town of settle. For literally millions upon millions of potential Yorkshire passengers who would not bother with the struggle to Yeadon (and that includes a large part of Leeds) Church Fenton is much more attractive and an easier shorter trip.
Have a guess which is quicker in- Sheffield to a, Manchester airport b, Yeadon airport c, east midlands airport or weyyy in the north sea tadcaster (church fenton)???
This is why an airport at Church fenton would be successful it is easily accessible to 99+ % of the whole of Yorkshire's population and also would help passengers from neighbouring regions that cant sustain certain flights using just their own catchment ie the North East.
Have a guess which is quicker in- Sheffield to a, Manchester airport b, Yeadon airport c, east midlands airport or weyyy in the north sea tadcaster (church fenton)???
This is why an airport at Church fenton would be successful it is easily accessible to 99+ % of the whole of Yorkshire's population and also would help passengers from neighbouring regions that cant sustain certain flights using just their own catchment ie the North East.
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"It actually takes longer on public transport to get to Yeadon than it does to get to church fenton from Bradford city centre."
That's not actually true though is it? The bus will drop you outside the Yeadon door in 40 minutes. The train will get you to Church Fenton station in 44 minutes, then you have to find your way to wherever the terminal might be, which is unlikely to be close to the railway station.
The cost of building a new "A" road from the M1/AI link to Church Fenton would be many millions. The only thing Church Fenton offers is some old runways in the middle of nowhere. I cant see you avoiding having to spend a lot on upgrading/extending to say nothing of providing a terminal etc. It would probably be cheaper to build something completely new closer to the Motorway.
That's not actually true though is it? The bus will drop you outside the Yeadon door in 40 minutes. The train will get you to Church Fenton station in 44 minutes, then you have to find your way to wherever the terminal might be, which is unlikely to be close to the railway station.
The cost of building a new "A" road from the M1/AI link to Church Fenton would be many millions. The only thing Church Fenton offers is some old runways in the middle of nowhere. I cant see you avoiding having to spend a lot on upgrading/extending to say nothing of providing a terminal etc. It would probably be cheaper to build something completely new closer to the Motorway.
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"It actually takes longer on public transport to get to Yeadon than it does to get to church fenton from Bradford city centre."
That's not actually true though is it? The bus will drop you outside the Yeadon door in 40 minutes. The train will get you to Church Fenton station in 44 minutes, then you have to find your way to wherever the terminal might be, which is unlikely to be close to the railway station.
The cost of building a new "A" road from the M1/AI link to Church Fenton would be many millions. The only thing Church Fenton offers is some old runways in the middle of nowhere. I cant see you avoiding having to spend a lot on upgrading/extending to say nothing of providing a terminal etc. It would probably be cheaper to build something completely new closer to the Motorway.
That's not actually true though is it? The bus will drop you outside the Yeadon door in 40 minutes. The train will get you to Church Fenton station in 44 minutes, then you have to find your way to wherever the terminal might be, which is unlikely to be close to the railway station.
The cost of building a new "A" road from the M1/AI link to Church Fenton would be many millions. The only thing Church Fenton offers is some old runways in the middle of nowhere. I cant see you avoiding having to spend a lot on upgrading/extending to say nothing of providing a terminal etc. It would probably be cheaper to build something completely new closer to the Motorway.
I completely disagree with you about cf. It is very difficult to pick anywhere with more potential (check my initial post). As for a brand new road this would not be required to begin with as the B roads would be upgraded. As the airport gained more passengers then there would be more pressure to make it even better connected - more stopping and quicker rail services and wider quicker road. Everybody in aviation knows that this is extremely unlikely to happen at Yeadon as for so many reasons the airport is not upto scratch.
An airport that allows the Yorkshire public to spend in Yorkshire rather than over the boarder would create 1000s upon 1000s of jobs in an area decimated by the collapse of the mining industry and boost the Leeds and Yorkshire economy by millions of pounds. It would create vastly more wealth for the region than the cost to develop the airfield as most of the infrastructure and connections are basically in place.
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Certainly there will be 1000s of people who would object to the development of a 'proper' commercial airport at church fenton because of how successful it would quickly become. It would do great damage to their businesses. The logical and economical business case for an international airport at cf is irrefutable. It really is time that there was little more honesty over Yeadon airports capabilities from politicians especially.
But Manchester is just down the road and already has all the things you are looking to replicate at huge cost at Church Fenton apart from not being in Yorkshire?
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Are we aiming a bit high.
I would think he would start off unlicensed get a flying school or two to move in.
Then try and fill those hangers with king airs and move to a more Gamston style set up.
Finally if there is a passenger demand it would move to a Gloucester Staverton style operation.
I would think he would start off unlicensed get a flying school or two to move in.
Then try and fill those hangers with king airs and move to a more Gamston style set up.
Finally if there is a passenger demand it would move to a Gloucester Staverton style operation.
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In Leeds we used to have to travel to Sheffield, Newcastle and Manchester etc to use an arena. Eventually we managed to get one. Was it costly? - yes. Is it now a success? - yes. Is it helping to put Leeds on the map? - yes. Is it generating wealth and jobs for region? - yes. Is it stopping 1000s of west Yorkshire people clogging up the motorways? - yes.
As I've stated the region has a bigger population than Scotland and therefore it is not asking the world to have an airport that actually works. An airport at Church Fenton would be a huge bonus to the people of the North East but obviously you're more concerned about the affect it would have on woolsington.
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Who is going to pay for your vanity project? Show us the numbers. And factor in that the passengers that you expect to "boycott" Manchester will have to pay increased fares through airport handling/landing charges that will be high and passed on by airlines/tour operators to let whichever company developed Church Fenton get a return on their money. So basically you can rule Ryanair out as a source of passengers given theit history at other airports, and they are the airline most likely to provide a broader range of services than any other airline.
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Are we aiming a bit high.
I would think he would start off unlicensed get a flying school or two to move in.
Then try and fill those hangers with king airs and move to a more Gamston style set up.
Finally if there is a passenger demand it would move to a Gloucester Staverton style operation.
I would think he would start off unlicensed get a flying school or two to move in.
Then try and fill those hangers with king airs and move to a more Gamston style set up.
Finally if there is a passenger demand it would move to a Gloucester Staverton style operation.
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Who is going to pay for your vanity project? Show us the numbers. And factor in that the passengers that you expect to "boycott" Manchester will have to pay increased fares through airport handling/landing charges that will be high and passed on by airlines/tour operators to let whichever company developed Church Fenton get a return on their money. So basically you can rule Ryanair out as a source of passengers given theit history at other airports, and they are the airline most likely to provide a broader range of services than any other airline.
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“Aren't you rather splitting hairs though?”
No, I’m simply trying to correct a misleading statement.
“but after 50+ years it's still a nightmare. Then there is the airport itself too high no space too short wrong direction on a bumpy field”
I’m not too sure I agree with you. Most people are travelling to the airport when the roads aren’t congested e.g. for morning departures. If you want to get to the airport from Leeds or Bradford or Harrogate or Airedale then it’s not difficult.
The physical constraints are well known but how serious are these commercially? Airlines seem to be able to provide flights throughout Europe-is there anywhere in Europe where there might be significant profitable demand that can’t be served from Yeadon because of the runway?
Inter-Continental flights are another issue, but again how significant are these? The long distance operators are established in Manchester, just a short distance away, and the chances of them relocating or duplicating their services are negligible.
Yeadon generally works OK and satisfies local demand. If you want long distance drive to Manchester take a connecting flight with KLM or BA (or if to North America with Aer Lingus via Dublin to save time on US immigration)
You make a comparison with the Leeds Arena and state that it is creating wealth and jobs for the Region. Have you any evidence to support this? The Council blew £80m on this (including receipts from the airport sale) so that people might watch the likes of Chas and Dave or Status Quo on the occasional days it is in use. How would transferring the airport to Church Fenton create wealth and jobs?
No, I’m simply trying to correct a misleading statement.
“but after 50+ years it's still a nightmare. Then there is the airport itself too high no space too short wrong direction on a bumpy field”
I’m not too sure I agree with you. Most people are travelling to the airport when the roads aren’t congested e.g. for morning departures. If you want to get to the airport from Leeds or Bradford or Harrogate or Airedale then it’s not difficult.
The physical constraints are well known but how serious are these commercially? Airlines seem to be able to provide flights throughout Europe-is there anywhere in Europe where there might be significant profitable demand that can’t be served from Yeadon because of the runway?
Inter-Continental flights are another issue, but again how significant are these? The long distance operators are established in Manchester, just a short distance away, and the chances of them relocating or duplicating their services are negligible.
Yeadon generally works OK and satisfies local demand. If you want long distance drive to Manchester take a connecting flight with KLM or BA (or if to North America with Aer Lingus via Dublin to save time on US immigration)
You make a comparison with the Leeds Arena and state that it is creating wealth and jobs for the Region. Have you any evidence to support this? The Council blew £80m on this (including receipts from the airport sale) so that people might watch the likes of Chas and Dave or Status Quo on the occasional days it is in use. How would transferring the airport to Church Fenton create wealth and jobs?
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It's not a case that "NCL" and "MAN" people are against then there's something in these proposals. Again....
Low cost airlines WILL NOT flock to an airport that has much higher handling/airport charges than near by airport. The clue is in that label: LOW COST.
If you expect a host of Yorkshire councils to come together to spend money a building 1 airport and paying compensation to the owners of LBA, HUY and DSA instead of spending money on things of greater consequence i.e. local amenities and services at a time when funding from central government is being reduced, then that is being slightly naive.
Who is going to pay for your vanity project? Show us the numbers. And factor in that the passengers that you expect to "boycott" Manchester will have to pay increased fares through airport handling/landing charges that will be high and passed on by airlines/tour operators to let whichever company developed Church Fenton get a return on their money. So basically you can rule Ryanair out as a source of passengers given theie history at other airports, and they are the airline most likely to provide a broader range of services than any other airline.
Low cost airlines WILL NOT flock to an airport that has much higher handling/airport charges than near by airport. The clue is in that label: LOW COST.
If you expect a host of Yorkshire councils to come together to spend money a building 1 airport and paying compensation to the owners of LBA, HUY and DSA instead of spending money on things of greater consequence i.e. local amenities and services at a time when funding from central government is being reduced, then that is being slightly naive.
LBA is a succesful regional airport with a choice of routes and operators that many other airports would give their right arm for.
I agree that in some ways Church Fenton would be a better location, but unfortunately history worked out differently. The costs, planning and timescale for the sort of airport that Leeds Approach dreams of would make Church Fenton a non-starter today, but even if they didn't is there any evidence at all that airlines would switch from LBA to Church Fenton, or that new operators would prefer to operate from Church Fenton? I can't see it myself. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. For all it's disadvantages, LBA is now the only game in town.
Unfortunately, there are only so many intercontinental airports that the country can support, and we have no particular entitlement to have one on our doorstep just because we think the local population "deserve" one. You have LBA for domestic and European flights. You have have the alternative of Manchester which also offers some Long Haul. You can use LBA to connect worldwide via LHR or AMS. Or you can travel to one of the London airports and catch a flight directly. The people of Yorkshire are, in no way, denied air travel.
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It is a very good idea for Yeadon airport but it is a million miles from the best idea for Yorkshire (now that church fenton is in the equation). The same goes for the short planned road link. You cant polish a tird as the saying goes.
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Like I said yesterday there are lots of people who would not want an airport at church fenton developed for obvious reasons. I suspect some of them are probably posting on here. Much better to have an airport in Yorkshire in handcuffs. (a short time ago yet another RYR had to do a missed approach.) Of course cf will not have flights to LAX or LAS but it would have flights to New York and Florida. It would have more flights to more destinations and there would be greater demand for your palmas and alicantes. Anyone who says that Yeadon airport is successfully serving the flying demands of the whole Yorkshire population either knows very little about aviation or more likely has a vested interest.
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Does Manchester airport want the millions upon millions of Yorkshire people who travel every single year to keep flying from there? - Answer = YES
If Manchester airport loses 1 passenger to a more suitable airport in Yorkshire would they be bothered? - Answer = YES
Please remember these facts when you're told that Yeadon is doing a wonderful job.
If Manchester airport loses 1 passenger to a more suitable airport in Yorkshire would they be bothered? - Answer = YES
Please remember these facts when you're told that Yeadon is doing a wonderful job.