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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 10:32
  #3301 (permalink)  
 
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Cross rail. Yes there were problems,but now it is nearly complete.One day it will perhaps connect you to the great eastern airport from your rural retreat? Infrastructure never gets any cheaper.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 13:24
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What is the Uxbridge effect?
The Uxbridge effect is very simple: Boris is Conservative parliamentary candidate there, he knows very well that a large proportion of his future electorate works on the airport, and continuing to advocate its closure is not doing himself any favours electorally.

Accessibility will sort itself out,as will the airline slot system.If you build it,they will come.
The case of Montreal-Mirabel says otherwise.

It is clearly not the case, otherwise the concept of closing Heathrow would never have surfaced. It is patently obvious that pax, premium pax in particular, want to use LHR, and therefore so do the carriers.


If you call it "Heathrow East" most customers won't notice the difference.
If you call what "Heathrow East"?

The reference to broadcasts from London simply refers to the background aircraft noise,not the whining of politicians.
If aircraft noise under the flightpath and in London was really as bad as is implied, it would be reflected in property prices.

It is not that bad now (ask any flightpath resident who is old enough to remember the really noisy jets of the 1960s/1970s) and certainly won't be by the time any new rwy opens.
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 18:42
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Heathrow East/West?

From the Heathrow publication " Taking Britain Further".
Heathrow East will be what old folk called the CTA, Term's 1,2,& 3. Heathrow West will be an enlarged & extended T5 westwards engulfing the north/south road from Staines to Uxbridge, used by non M25 traffic, and as a major freight & airport services road. Term 4 exists on the plan, but is not named on the "refreshed plan"
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Old 22nd Nov 2014, 18:53
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Cross rail. Yes there were problems, but now it is nearly complete.
Crossrail - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The concept of large-diameter railway tunnels crossing central London to connect Paddington and Liverpool Street main-line stations was proposed by railwayman George Dow in the London newspaper The Star in June 1941.
[edit]
It is due to begin full operation in 2018

One day it will perhaps connect you to the great eastern airport from your rural retreat?
I don't think I mentioned 'rural', I have always lived in a town, or within 12 minutes of a London bound railway station. Never rural.

Infrastructure never gets any cheaper.
Indeed, which is why LHR should have been expanded 30 years ago.
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 22:51
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Heathrow East/West?
From the Heathrow publication " Taking Britain Further".
Heathrow East will be what old folk called the CTA, Term's 1,2,& 3. Heathrow West will be an enlarged & extended T5 westwards engulfing the north/south road from Staines to Uxbridge, used by non M25 traffic, and as a major freight & airport services road.

dash6 stated: "You have only to listen to any broadcast from Central London to realise why Heathrow should close,apart from all the congestion and lack of space for expansion. Why not "Boris Island" Aligned 23/05 with at least 6 runways with transport links north and South along a barrier across the estuary opening up East Kent and Essex and generating tidal power for the airport? Think big!"

and later: "If you build it,they will come. If you call it "Heathrow East" most customers won't notice the difference."

Not sure that it was a reference to the central terminal area of Heathrow.
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Old 23rd Nov 2014, 22:52
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Heathrow East/West?
From the Heathrow publication " Taking Britain Further".
Heathrow East will be what old folk called the CTA, Term's 1,2,& 3. Heathrow West will be an enlarged & extended T5 westwards engulfing the north/south road from Staines to Uxbridge, used by non M25 traffic, and as a major freight & airport services road.
dash6 stated: "You have only to listen to any broadcast from Central London to realise why Heathrow should close,apart from all the congestion and lack of space for expansion. Why not "Boris Island" Aligned 23/05 with at least 6 runways with transport links north and South along a barrier across the estuary opening up East Kent and Essex and generating tidal power for the airport? Think big!"

and later: "If you build it,they will come. If you call it "Heathrow East" most customers won't notice the difference."

Not sure that it was a reference to the central terminal area of Heathrow.
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 08:07
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Not sure that it was a reference to the central terminal area of Heathrow.
No, it clearly wasn't in this case, although I agree that the term is normally used in the context of the CTA, or more particularly the eastern elements of the toast rack that will eventually stretch from the BA base to the M25.
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 13:34
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Well BAA seem to be using "East" as their EAST, renaming terminals in the CTA, and renaming and expanding T5 as WEST (with further expansion). Maybe they have taken the copyright as well. Will T4 become the "freight" terminal?
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 16:43
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renaming terminals in the CTA
AFAIK there are no plans to rename any of the terminals. Heathrow's plans (assuming R3 approval) show, reading from east to west:

T2A + satellites
T5A + satellites
T6A (which also has a satellite, but that's not part of the toast rack)
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 17:55
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I do not wish to post the link "Taking Britain Further" (it may go wrong) but it is readily available thru' many search engines. The diagram on page 25 shows Heathrow EAST & WEST. On page 51 item 8 on the page, is described as "two main passenger terminal and public transport areas". You may note that T5 extends further west to engulf the north south road.
This is what I rely on in describing East & West.
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Old 24th Nov 2014, 22:02
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You may note that T5 extends further west to engulf the north south road.
There are no plans to extend T5.

The building shown to its west (beyond the MSCP) is T6. Together, they would collectively be known as "Heathrow West" (also referred to in various Heathrow documents as the "Western Front Door" and "Western Campus").

Similarly T2 and, for the time being, T3 are collectively referred to as "Heathrow East", "Eastern Front Door" and "Eastern Campus".
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 15:55
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DRUK
If T6 is built west of the MSCP of T5, and then they both become Heathrow West, so it is not an extension? T6 was originally North of the airport with the 3rd runway.
The A304 will be moved for the comfort of this "extension" as it is on the plan, together with the disappearance of the A4 Bath Road. None of the consultants at the local briefing could explain about the movement of these roads.
Neither could they explain fully the ability of all aircraft to "touch down further along the runways to reduce noise"
T09L
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 17:58
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If T6 is built west of the MSCP of T5, and then they both become Heathrow West, so it is not an extension?
OK, have it your way.

T6 was originally North of the airport with the 3rd runway.
Yes, the original 2009 proposal for a shorter northern R3 of 2200m showed a T6 sitting slap on top of the M4 spur.

The A304 will be moved for the comfort of this "extension" as it is on the plan, together with the disappearance of the A4 Bath Road. None of the consultants at the local briefing could explain about the movement of these roads.
The latest plan I've seen does indeed appear to suggest the A4 Colnbrook Bypass being interrupted by R3 and T6B and the A4 re-routed along the original Bath Road route (through Colnbrook and Poyle) to a roundabout just west of the M25 (by the golf range), then tunnelling under the airport to resurface and join the original A4 at the Hatch Lane junction.

It's not altogether surprising that they are being coy about publicising that.

Re the A3044/Stanwell Moor Road, that's replaced by a link road west of the M25 from the aforesaid roundabout to the J14 roundabout, then via Airport Way to rejoin its original route.

Neither could they explain fully the ability of all aircraft to "touch down further along the runways to reduce noise"
That features in a number of Heathrow's recent presentation documents, which talk about displaced thresholds of around 700m on the current runways. That would result in aircraft being about 120ft higher at any point on the approach, which would have a fairly minimal effect on noise.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 19:04
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Maybe a sign that Heathrow is getting desperate when they are seen be paying various Chambers Of Commerce to in effect support them.

Ironically the list of supporting members is not in the regions where the routes are really required !

The Manchester Evening News refers

Last edited by Bagso; 25th Nov 2014 at 19:23.
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 19:10
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Accessibility will sort itself out,as will the airline slot system.If you build it,they will come.
You sound like a Spanish local politician now..... There are about a dozen new empty airports in Spain....
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 22:40
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Nice difference from the 3rd largest airport in the world and these ghost airports in spain hundreds of miles from cities:P
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Old 25th Nov 2014, 23:10
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Yes, the original 2009 proposal for a shorter northern R3 of 2200m showed a T6 sitting slap on top of the M4 spur.
And if they got it right, slap on top of the railway between Airport Junction and Heathrow-1 2 3, but that history now, apparently.


The latest plan I've seen does indeed appear to suggest the A4 Colnbrook Bypass being interrupted by R3 and T6B and the A4 re-routed along the original Bath Road route (through Colnbrook and Poyle) to a roundabout just west of the M25 (by the golf range), then tunnelling under the airport to resurface and join the original A4 at the Hatch Lane junction.
My intepretation is slightly different (if we're looking at the same document "Taking Britain Further" booklet, page 25):the A4 remains the Colnbrook Bypass north of Colnbrook, then joins the old A4 through Poyle industrial estate to the M25 then disappears (tunnel?). It reappears above the airport tunnel entrance junnction (A408).

That features in a number of Heathrow's recent presentation documents, which talk about displaced thresholds of around 700m on the current runways. That would result in aircraft being about 120ft higher at any point on the approach, which would have a fairly minimal effect on noise.
Not a problem, aircraft will be significantly quieter (and cleaner) by the time any new rwy is built, if it ever is.
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Old 26th Nov 2014, 07:16
  #3318 (permalink)  
 
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There have indeed been a number of different versions of the NW runway proposal since it was moved south from its original line. Your guess is as good as mine as to which is the most recent.

Other differences between the TBF version and the one I'm looking at include the presence or absence of the "Commercial Zone" between the runways, ditto the fuel farm between T5 and the CTA, and the size and positioning of T6A and its satellite(s).
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Old 26th Nov 2014, 08:52
  #3319 (permalink)  
 
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Interview: Daniel Moylan – “Boris will never surrender his vision of building a great new airport east of London” | Conservative Home

BoJo's mini me clone is banging the drum for his master again.....
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Old 26th Nov 2014, 12:37
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Whether one agrees with Boris's aspirations or not, it's hard to argue with his proposition that the DfT seems to have given up on having an aviation policy.
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