Revised departure clearance
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Revised departure clearance
Revised departure clearance.
Hi folks, have been told about following situation, would like to hear your opinion. Departure in MNL RWY 06, initial clearance: “cleared to destination XXX, FPR, follow SID xxx, which basically says strait ahead at 2000 ft right turn opposite heading maintain 3000 ft, climb FL 280, sq XXXX. After line up RWY 06, ATC has revised the departure clearance as follow: “Maintain RWY HEADING, after airborne contact departure freq. xxx,xx ”
I also have to say, that the MSA in departure direction is 7000, basically hills start somewhere after departure, let’s say btw 10 and 15 miles.
So, here comes the first curiosity: laterally revised departure “maintain rwy heading” clearance without having revised first cleared altitude, which in my opinion was necessary in order to meet the obstacle clearance requirements, in case of loss of communication.
After take off climbed to 3000 ft and maintaining the RWY heading, crew has tried to established communication with approach, which was unsuccessful. Flying towards the hills the crew decided to initiate the turn to the right, while still maintaining 3000. Doing this, the aircraft will cross the departure direction of the RWY 15, for domestic traffic. The crew established the communication prior to cross abeam the RWY 15 and has been cleared to climb to FL280, as per initial clearance.
So, here are my questions:
1. Has the ATC had to revise the clearance vertically, in terms of meeting the OCA?
2. Has the crew had to set the MSA or FL 280 as the first cleared altitude, since the clearance was amended?
3. Was the action of the crew correct, by turning right still maintaining 3000 ft in VMC or were they supposed to follow on heading, but climbing to MSA or FL 280, while following the loss of comm. Procedure?
Appreciate your comments,
Thanks.
Hi folks, have been told about following situation, would like to hear your opinion. Departure in MNL RWY 06, initial clearance: “cleared to destination XXX, FPR, follow SID xxx, which basically says strait ahead at 2000 ft right turn opposite heading maintain 3000 ft, climb FL 280, sq XXXX. After line up RWY 06, ATC has revised the departure clearance as follow: “Maintain RWY HEADING, after airborne contact departure freq. xxx,xx ”
I also have to say, that the MSA in departure direction is 7000, basically hills start somewhere after departure, let’s say btw 10 and 15 miles.
So, here comes the first curiosity: laterally revised departure “maintain rwy heading” clearance without having revised first cleared altitude, which in my opinion was necessary in order to meet the obstacle clearance requirements, in case of loss of communication.
After take off climbed to 3000 ft and maintaining the RWY heading, crew has tried to established communication with approach, which was unsuccessful. Flying towards the hills the crew decided to initiate the turn to the right, while still maintaining 3000. Doing this, the aircraft will cross the departure direction of the RWY 15, for domestic traffic. The crew established the communication prior to cross abeam the RWY 15 and has been cleared to climb to FL280, as per initial clearance.
So, here are my questions:
1. Has the ATC had to revise the clearance vertically, in terms of meeting the OCA?
2. Has the crew had to set the MSA or FL 280 as the first cleared altitude, since the clearance was amended?
3. Was the action of the crew correct, by turning right still maintaining 3000 ft in VMC or were they supposed to follow on heading, but climbing to MSA or FL 280, while following the loss of comm. Procedure?
Appreciate your comments,
Thanks.
Join Date: Nov 2004
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popay
Strictly speaking, ATC should revise the cleared First Stop Altitude if an amended clearance is issued whereby the aircraft is required to fly off the SID immediately after departure.
If they don't, then the flight crew really ought to seek confirmation from ATC and challenge the response if the First Stop Altitude doesn't permit the flight to comply with MSA (either published or as per company SOPs).
MSA would be the safest choice of a revised FSA if ATC doesn't offer an adequate alternative - not final cruising level.
Turning right without informing ATC - albeit in VMC - is dodgy because the crew may not have full situational awareness of other potentially conflicting traffic.
The fact that R/T contact with ATC (to advise them of intentions) couldn't initially be made, simply exacerbates the potential for a safety-related incident.
Hope this info is helpful - you don't say whether this airspace is a radar or procedural environment, or whether if radar, ATC is equipped with primary and secondary radar, or just primary. Obviously, if it's a radar environment with PSR and SSR then ATC can at least see what you're doing and where you're deviating from the revised ATC clearance.
In summary - best advice is "If in doubt - before take-off SHOUT!!"
Strictly speaking, ATC should revise the cleared First Stop Altitude if an amended clearance is issued whereby the aircraft is required to fly off the SID immediately after departure.
If they don't, then the flight crew really ought to seek confirmation from ATC and challenge the response if the First Stop Altitude doesn't permit the flight to comply with MSA (either published or as per company SOPs).
MSA would be the safest choice of a revised FSA if ATC doesn't offer an adequate alternative - not final cruising level.
Turning right without informing ATC - albeit in VMC - is dodgy because the crew may not have full situational awareness of other potentially conflicting traffic.
The fact that R/T contact with ATC (to advise them of intentions) couldn't initially be made, simply exacerbates the potential for a safety-related incident.
Hope this info is helpful - you don't say whether this airspace is a radar or procedural environment, or whether if radar, ATC is equipped with primary and secondary radar, or just primary. Obviously, if it's a radar environment with PSR and SSR then ATC can at least see what you're doing and where you're deviating from the revised ATC clearance.
In summary - best advice is "If in doubt - before take-off SHOUT!!"
