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African Aviation Regional issues that affect the numerous pilots who work in this area of the world.


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Old 31st Mar 2012, 13:27   #1 (permalink)
 
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Nigeria whats going On..!!!

Foreign Registered Jets all over the place..loads of more foreign crew all over the place with fat packages and the local young lads without jobs hanging about.
Who is benefitting from this and why is this allowed.
And this callsign they all use " express " whats all that about.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 19:12   #2 (permalink)
 
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10% Magic

Sir Balewa, Long time!

Answer to your question is a certain NCAA DG who's also set up his own little outfit beside the International Terminals. Source: Grapevine Media

Express Jet callsign belongs to a gangster in the local sector, its a common callsign, no biggie there.

The biggie is the invasion of 'ethnic minorities' - evidence of what 10% can do!

Last edited by NaijaNinja; 31st Mar 2012 at 22:24.
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Old 31st Mar 2012, 20:59   #3 (permalink)
 
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On our part,the lack of professionalism,has caused lack of trust.

How many "express" ask "whats going on" on live atc?
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 01:26   #4 (permalink)
 
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just curious

do you mean "C-Express" the SA chaps?

Im pretty confident that Foreign registered airplanes like ZS, M, VP, N, OE .... these registrations come with foreign banks, foreign licenses, foreign insurance requirements etc which lead to the need for Experienced Type Rated crew who can meet simple insurance minimums. I would imagine young lads anywhere in the world and not just nigeria would have issues getting lucrative contracts and fat pockets.


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Old 1st Apr 2012, 05:17   #5 (permalink)
 
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I have been involved in training many young Nigerian students. The natural ability is low. The willingness to learn - zero. There's more of a "it's your job to make me good, now do it" and to round it off, the Rayban fighter pilot look is the most important thing to most.
So to answer your question as to why you guys aren't being used - incompetence.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 05:34   #6 (permalink)
 
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oompilot;hmmm,i always thought it was students job description to train himself,correct me if am wrong,and pay an instructor money to train himself.

Must be the famous jealous"airline rejected wannabe instructor" situation

You will fly a jet some day,don't take frustration out on your students.

Maybe you should get a pair of raybans,you may be able to see what they see!

As an instructor remember student fails;instructor fails!
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 07:48   #7 (permalink)
 
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Some students be from any part of the world just don't get it.

And what ever the instructor does they won't get to a suitable professional level.

If the student won't do the ground school and put effort in there isn't much the instructor can do about it. Learning to fly is hard work and requires commitment.

Instructing is a two way thing. And both parties need to be moving towards the same goal.

And the instructor doesn't fail if a student doesn't come up to scratch. They bank their wages and move on to the next one in the knowledge that someone that couldn't make the grade isn't being let loose in the sky.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 08:21   #8 (permalink)
 
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Couldn't agree more with you mad jock,100% spot on;"Any part of the world"

Am referring to ompilot's reference to a particular part of the world.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 08:56   #9 (permalink)
 
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Unfortunately certain parts of the world seem to produce more students that "don't get it" than others.

I fully appreciate it is the enviroment that they have grown up in. Nothing genetic like some would like to believe.

You may also find that its your own that are not wanting locals. This is quite common in the Middle East as well.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 09:24   #10 (permalink)
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Yes indeed, it's not as though one were to say that one got one bunch of students from one country in Africa - or even the whole wide world - down in one other for training and that blinded by the thrills and big lights of sub Saharan Africa's dirtiest city and through absolutely no fault of their own they showed an amazing inability to work towards the task in hand and demanded that four gold bars fly through the air and land magically upon each shoulder like a tame Quaffle and that they became exceedingly upset when failure attended the absence of their efforts which was all the instructor's fault anyway because ... Is it now?
Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala for next president of the World Bank.

Last edited by cavortingcheetah; 1st Apr 2012 at 10:16.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 12:07   #11 (permalink)
 
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Lol ....here we go again. Typical Reject Expat comments.
And so off the point.

Hi Ninja ....so who is this local gangsta..Anyone we know !!!
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 12:43   #12 (permalink)
 
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Not so long ago...

There were more local operators in Lagos than you could shake a stick at. Where did they all go?

Let me guess; the colonial masters did away with them! Yes! They used their usual wicked tricks, wanting loans to be repaid and scheduled maintenance to be done; they were writing performance charts that meant you couldn't fly with a full load off a short runway on a hot afternoon and hope to live; they designed their aircraft to be unable to fly without fuel or to land in zero visibility; Boeing made the 727 unable to be rolled over on its back safely... There is no end to what those poor old local operators and their crews had to endure, until they were mostly gone, out of business after a series of disasters financial and otherwise.

Don't worry, Balewa. Once Nigeria gets independence (from reality) then you are sure to have a career in aviation there. Until then, I am siding with Oompilot's view for the most part, just going from what I have seen, except that I would extend his negative assessment a bit further, to the operators, to the regulators... well, to the whole darn Nigerian scene, in fact! Nigeria is run by fraudsters for fraudsters, when aviation is one thing that you just cannot fool around with in that way and not expect to get your fingers burnt. Getting your performance calculations wrong is not the same as finding out that you just bought a fake phone card.

I lost friends and colleagues there, too many to count, and came up against so many people in aviation who simply came across as 'not having paid much attention in school.' When I would snatch us out of the jaws of disaster then the guilty party would just look at me as if to say, 'You are the Captain.' In the next moment he or she would be bitching about how I was never letting my poor old put-upon FO have the chance to display what must be superior ability. I mean, literally, that I would still be shaking from the last time that I had felt the hot breath of the cat of death on my neck when it was, 'Hey, so what? Okay, I forgot to keep visual on that aircraft we were passing in descent on a visual clearance [a pure suicide attempt], but why are you so picky? C'mon, I want another go.'

The flash was always there in Nigeria, but the substance was often lacking. I remember so many guys who needed those Ray-Bans, not to be blinded by their own bling, while they were usually blind to their own lack of ability, to that need we all have to self-assess and continue to learn. Not always, and it's too true that many ex-pat losers tend to settle there like sludge, but it was a truism that you just never knew what you were going to get with Nigerian aviation; that went right back to the way modern Nigeria has gone steadily downwards ever since 1961.

I ended up in North Africa for a while, after too many years in Nigeria. The desert was a terrible place, but the locals were so much easier to work with that you would not believe that. As in, you give them a job; they do the job. Finish palaver!

I met people from all over Africa there, except for one place everybody seemed to be down on: Nigeria. I would try to tell them that Nigeria wasn't so bad, when they would just look at me as if to say that I must have spent too long out in the sun without my hat on. You tell me why, but people are just down on the place and its people. Other Africans besides those nasty Boers, I mean! That might be why even the Nigerians with the bucks don't want to fly with their own local operators.

Last edited by chuks; 1st Apr 2012 at 13:45.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 13:46   #13 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Lol ....here we go again. Typical Reject Expat comments.
And so off the point.
BALEWA,
Are you referring to the expats that worked in Nigeria as rejects??
If so, it doesn't say much for your standards there, does it?

What is the point, by the way?
If you are serious about addressing this and not engaging in expat bashing, you need to speak to the NCAA because, after all, they allow it to be thus.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 13:54   #14 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
If you are serious about addressing this and not engaging in expat bashing, you need to speak to the NCAA because, after all, they allow it to be thus.
He probably does not have enough money to talk to the NCAA.
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 14:24   #15 (permalink)
 
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Why does every thread have to degenerate into a locals vs expat slanging match?
There are good and bad examples of both in Nigeria.
As professionals if that is what we really are then all we can do is try to exhibit the high standards we should all strive for whenever we strap on our airplanes and helicopters with our passengers in the back.
This fighting needs to stop, we are all united in our desire to earn a safe living while we roam the skies as we fly to and from our various destinations.
When you take away skin colour and attitudes, as pilots something drove us to earn our living doing what we do.
People are different, always have been and always will be, whether they are born to the same family, tribe, or country.
We have to be able to get along when we share the same cockpit, it shouldn't be that hard to share a drink after a hard days work and continue to extend that courtesy to one another.
Enough with the bickering, please, it's really sad to read!
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 15:56   #16 (permalink)
 
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April Fool!

Very funny parody of a racist rant, that one! I was almost fooled, until I checked the date. I just hope everyone else takes that as a joke.

There are plenty of people in Nigeria with ability. After all, there are about 150 million of them there, when they cannot all be losers.

The problem is that, all too often, it is some total muppet whose daddy made off with a lot of money, or whose uncle is in the ministry, who decides that Ray-Ban look is the one to go for. They show up all tricked out with a US FAA licence that isn't worth the paper it's written on, after having wasted everyone's time in some crummy little flight school in East Podunk, Alabama. Then they get a Nigerian ATPL.

Those licences are, legally, just as good as your own. Nobody can tell the diffo between the local who really has his act together and the one who wants to kill you through sheer lack of ability, plus, often, an arrogant refusal to learn. In the same way, you can be looking at a very pretty aircraft, when nobody knows that its engines are timed-out and that its last inspection was just pencil-whipped, if it even was done at all.

A lot of the locals who were good took the chance to go abroad, just another aspect of the Nigerian 'brain drain.' Next time you are flying with Virgin Atlantic, say, try telling one of the flight crew that he's not qualified to 'operate heavy machinery.' Maybe you can get an upgrade to First Class that way!
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Old 1st Apr 2012, 20:09   #17 (permalink)
 
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Ancient Geek,
Quote:
He probably does not have enough money to talk to the NCAA.
Therein lies the root of the problem. As long as control is for sale to the highest bidder, things will continue to be a mess.
The issue is not the dodgy people in the business, it is the total lack of application of the Regulations that allows them to be there in he first place and the often complicit support from the authorities that is causing the most damage.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 00:14   #18 (permalink)
 
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Before i continue writing, i have to say that i have seen 1/2 disgusting posts since my last post on this thread to earn some people the kind of ban i got last year but eh, different strokes .... remains to be seen what the umpire does to me hereon.

@ oompilot: You are simply a racist with stupid comments about 'natural ability'. My word, no one was ever born to be a pilot, not the Wright brothers, NOT EVEN YOU, you weren't fing born with any natural ability if you've been deluding yourself. You play computer games and that gives you natural ability, pls, pls. Fyi, the most expensive Global Express XRS ever made by Bombardier has been crewed for the last 18-24 months with 3 fing Nigerians with an expat to supplement their additional Challenger 604 which they are equally rated on.

Also, the Nigerian presidential fleet comprises of the most modern jet you will probably dream of flying - 3 of them brand new in the last year, G550 and 2 7X; these and many other machines (12 in total + a new Hawker 4000 en-route) in the fleet are being driven by about 35 black fing Nigerians.

Talking about attitude and willingness to learn is acceptable but don't nationalise it, are you telling me all Boers and your fellows all have natural ability? Please, go drink some SA Miller with Nigerian Palm Wine and speak no more.

The topic certainly didn't warrant your stupid rant about incompetence, what's happening to SAA today? Was it run all these years by Nigerians? I didn't think so; go sleep my friend! Your attitude as an instructor probably stinks, i hope you're no longer an instructor because i won't send my child to your school, my child won't go to SA for training anyway when good old Oxford where her Nigerian father got a good old CAA licence awaits her!

Would you like me to tell you how your fellow 'naturally able' countrymen (engineers) almost ruined a brand new 604 on a routine inspection, it cost that SA company the biggest individual contract they could ever get, i can't stand condescending lots like you.

@cavortingcheetah: i seriously didn't get any of your 'parambulations'!

@Balewa: identity isn't wikileaks type of story, its common knowledge na, its all there at GAT.

The other reason i hear why these machines are not crewed by locals is that the businessmen/govt officials/politicians don't want both flight/cabin crew to be privy to their dodgy dealings in-flight, they prefer to 'use' the expats as accessories to their dubious activities. Have you seen these expats 'beg' for money from these dodgy pax, you will see how desperate they can be and why they will only keep mouthing off but they love working in Nigeria, without it, they earn peanuts!

@Captain Magic: You should be banned by the moderator and i wait to see how they react to your barbaric comments in April 2012. Judging by the time since you posted, not much of a reaction from them to be honest. I wonder what ship you got on from because your old titanic-style ship sailed long ago, you seem to have this 'colonial masters' mentality in your previous posts, people like you should be the guinea pigs for Ahmadinejad's latest project! People like you if empowered would rename South Africa 'Whiteland'.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 07:02   #19 (permalink)
 
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Ninja as I said before its they way folk are brought up and what they think is acceptable thats the main cause. Mind you that can apply to alot of things. So there is an element of truth in the posters that say there are issues in general with home grown. There will be a few utter stars who step away from the mold.

In my experence the Nigerians that have been brought up in the UK with parents that are educated can be taught to fly the same as any other kid. Some have it some don't. Although I must admit thier parents almost go to far with them applying extreme pressure to them, and I quote "your not ending up like those other lazy (n word)" which is what one dad said to his son when he failed a exam. He was a British educated Doctor.

I might add he was also the most rasist person I have met in relation to asians and indians etc.

So its horses for courses. SAFA's can be racists pains in the arse I will agree, but not all of them just like not all nigerians are lazy thick fraudsters. I have flown with some very pleasant ones and some utter dickheads.




just to piss everyone off.
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Old 2nd Apr 2012, 10:55   #20 (permalink)
 
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No no no, oompilot

Common sense dictates that not everyone amongst a sample of any nation can be that bad. oompilot, you're a cheap racist, period. And oh, if you're not white or other colored, you're an idiot.
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