Glider Crash - Melton Mowbray

[lederhosen]

Someone recommended a bicycling app for tracking instructional flights. He said it provided an interesting record for reviewing what you had done. I think it was Komoot. I have not tried it yet. Does anyone have any experience with it or similar free trackers?

[blind pew]

You're confusing the product with the principle. Another, possibly cheaper or even free, would also have saved you hat's technology advancing. You can get most of that and more in a £50 smartphone too. And it happens better in a competitive environment. Detailed terrain data is free in GB and SRTM globally so if you were charged for that you have been had.

;Not at all as I didn’t buy it for FLARM. Having tried at least 15 different glider/hang glider and paraglider systems over 25 odd years, several at the same time, I want a super quick vario which cancelled “false” or stick lift without a pitot tube..helps recognise wind shear “lift”, displays accurately wind velocity (close to a mountain face whilst figure of eighting) which you would understand if you tried your hand at mountain flying (below the crest as the french call it); added to that I need a logger, altimeter and ground velocity. Flarm is a nicety but the extreme closeness renders it useless for the type of flying I do. I occasionally fly with a hacked E-reader, samsung Tablet, samsung phone running one of two programs and a folded topo. Not at the same time. The Swiss kit is the best I’ve seen..it’s only fault is that it doesn’t have a temperature sensor which if you understand inversions, air masses, wind shifts and wind shear would be a bonus.
ps it’s my kids money anyway.

[Jim59]

Supposing, for example, the radio was invented today. It's undoubtedly a safety advantage, but if Marconi insisted that everyone buy a Marconi set for £5,000 rather than have a choice of buying from ICOM or Garmin then the consumer would be worse off long-term.

So the 37 or so patents Marconi took out to protect his inventions have made us worse off?

What three words are attempting the same thing with physical location. It's an advantage being able to report your position easily, but supposing you end up having to "report passing owner duck sports" and pay 5p every time you do so because they've successfully lobbied NATS to make them a monopoly on position reporting.

Longitude and Lattitude? Map Grid references? Where is the monopoly?

Clearly your mind is made up.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by Jim59

Longitude and Latitude? Map Grid references? Where is the monopoly?

Clearly your mind is made up.

To be fair, a lot of people who know what they're talking about have concerns over W3W, not so much about the technology as about their business model:

Why What3Words is not suitable for safety critical applications

Rescuers question what3words' use in emergencies

Why we don't use What 3 Words

[blind pew]

Originally Posted by lederhosen

Someone recommended a bicycling app for tracking instructional flights. He said it provided an interesting record for reviewing what you had done. I think it was Komoot. I have not tried it yet. Does anyone have any experience with it or similar free trackers?

Don’t know that but paraglidingforum.com have loads of gen on tracking and a link to leonardo which can read the data.
I bought a satellite communicator which links to a mobile which allows messaging outside of mobile phone coverage in Europe, tracking and an SOS facility. Bought from NHBS cost £168 plus an annual subscription. Far more than you need but having had problems reporting an on going arson attack near Carlingford within line of sight of phone masts appreciate the thought that if I have a minor accident I will have help on the way.

[ATC Watcher]

Originally Posted by dash34

For the record, a separate on/off switch is required in the FLARM installation guide. How it is used, however, is up to the pilot.

in which country ?
in France ( and Germany I believe) if you have FLARM installed it must be ON all the time , i.e. as long as it is battery powered , son
no on/off switch , just a fuse .
. In the Alps in France ( and I believe in Switzerland and Austria but wait to be corrected ) it is even mandatory No club which manages the French Alps airfields will allow you to fly without a FLARM . And this is also valid for all competitions too Statewide . FLARM u/s = glider grounded .

[lederhosen]

I have never heard of Flarm being mandatory or (as suggested here) that when installed it must be switched on in Germany. It is a great aid to safety. But some pilots definitely turn it off when they don’t want to be tracked. Also some of the installations particularly the very simple older displays are unreliable to the extent that they distract rather than help. We have an excellent interface with an LX9000 on our Arcus which often shows not just conflicting traffic but climb rates of other gliders. Having said that it is nothing like as foolproof as TCAS. Flarm targets appear and disappear in an unpredictable manner which can be disconcerting. Overall it is great and I always use it, but it is no substitute for the mark one eyeball.

[ATC Watcher]

Originally Posted by lederhosen

I have never heard of Flarm being mandatory or (as suggested here) that when installed it must be switched on in Germany. It is a great aid to safety. But some pilots definitely turn it off when they don’t want to be tracked. .

Thanks you , and while I fully agree with the rest of your post on the need NOT to solely rely on FLARM and open your eyes, your remark explains a lot the attitude of some German pilots when flying in France.
FLARM is mandatory in France since 2013 :

Ce 1er mars 2013, par décision de la Fédération Française de Vol à Voile (FFVV) l'emport du Flarm est devenu obligatoire sur tous les planeurs, moto-planeurs et avions de servitude utilisés en France.

so if you want to use a glider in an airfield member of FFVP ( the new name of FFVV and except to a handful of private fields they all are members in France) you need a workable Flarm and that includes towing aircraft ( avions de servitude) the mandate is not only for French registered gliders but for ANY glider used in France.
The main reasons given by some pilots that do not want to be tracked are : not give a clue to their adversaries as to when there are going during competitions, or penetrating class D or C airspace. We are far, far away from a safety discussion .. .

[punkalouver]

Originally Posted by dash34

For the record, a separate on/off switch is required in the FLARM installation guide. How it is used, however, is up to the pilot.

Interesting. I have flown two glider types now and neither has an individual switch for the FLARM. Same with the tow plane, although that is a portable unit that I believe is home assembled that is taken out at the end of the day and put on a charger

[biscuit74]

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher

that includes towing aircraft ( avions de servitude)

Interesting, thanks. I thought towplane were 'remorquers'. Or are there other 'avions de servitude' operating in the Alps as well - like survey or rescue helicopters?

[ATC Watcher]

Originally Posted by biscuit74

Interesting, thanks. I thought towplane were 'remorquers'. Or are there other 'avions de servitude' operating in the Alps as well - like survey or rescue helicopters?

No ,the rescue helicopters are from Securite civile or Gendarmerie, both state aircraft ..The term "avions de servitude" is just an administrative term to define remorqueurs , but also the motorgliders used for training which are F-C registered. (SF25, Super Dimonas, etc) basically any aircraft registered with the FFVP. .The French "Federation" system is complicated (but very effective) you have to be "licenced" (i.e buy a membership) to be able to fly any aircraft covered by them , including the remorqueurs. All are insured mutually by them at a very, very competitive rate , and you also receive a substantial subventions when a club buys a new modern glider or even a remorqueur. . But there are a few rules to follow, FLARM is one of them .