DHL Air UK
 

Hi all,

Looking for some honest insight from anyone currently at DHL Air UK, particularly on the 777, or those who’ve made a similar move.

I’m a current 737 Captain with around 7,000 hours total time and I’m considering a move across to DHL as an FO on the 777.

A few things I’m trying to get a realistic picture of:

General atmosphere

What’s the general mood in the company at the moment?

Are most people broadly happy or is there a lot of underlying dissatisfaction?

Roster and lifestyle

I’ve been told that on the 777 it’s typically one trip per month, occasionally two, with trips up to around 14 days.

Does that reflect reality?

How predictable are the rosters in practice?

Also on rest:

I’ve been told rest is half the preceding duty plus one day, but I’ve also seen plus two days mentioned elsewhere.

What is it in reality?

For context, my current short haul lifestyle is pretty intense in the summer. I’m regularly doing 12 to 14 hour duty days and then going back to work the same day after minimum rest. During 2 to 3 day off blocks I’m often completely wiped out, so I’m trying to work out whether DHL is genuinely an improvement in that regard.

Command timeline

Fully appreciate nothing is guaranteed, but I’ve been told around 5 years to command.

Does that feel realistic at the moment?

Has that been moving quicker or slower recently?

Command process

Is the upgrade process generally considered fair?

Is there a high failure rate or is it more a case of you will get there if you are solid?

Overall move worth it?

I’d be taking a significant pay cut initially to make the move, but long haul is something I’ve always wanted to do.

If anyone here has given up command to join DHL long haul:

Do you regret it?

Has the lifestyle actually been better overall?

Appreciate any honest views.

Thanks

6 of one. Half a dozen of another .

One trip a month only because vastly overcrewed as expected aircraft haven’t come but are on the way now , expect more .

imagine going round the world in 4 days from utc -8 to utc +8 , with 19-22 hr breaks . It’s just as tiring but a different sort of.

Position to HK or Shanghai , to do 5 standbys , position back . A lot of JS sectors , cruise sectors .
its a niche job , some love it and stay decades , some last 2 years

Why go as an FO?

have a think about it

Think I work for the same operator as the OP & I agree 100% with you.

The OP is right, we do some horrendous duties in the summer and it is busy. But after flying long haul out of the sandpit for 15yrs, it absolutely is a different kind of tired. I can be destroyed after an airport stby callout nightmare duty, but after a day I’m back to normal. Compare to longhaul, don’t think I actually ever fully recovered between duties.

I nearly ended up at DHL UK myself, and have friends there that are very happy. But I’m happy I ended up where I did, as one of the reasons for leaving the desert, was to avoid being away from home for long periods

Thanks for the input Prob30Tempo TSRA, much appreciated.

rudestuff it would be the same situation for me if I went to BA or Virgin, I’d be going across as an FO either way.

That’s exactly the dilemma I’ve got.

I’ve been at the same outfit well over a decade now and I’m ready for a change. Every time I’ve looked at long haul at BA, Virgin or Emirates, the rosters have always put me off. I know seniority plays a big part, but going away on trips and then only having 1 to 4 days at home between duties, not even factoring in the commute, just doesn’t appeal.

What’s drawing me towards DHL is that, from what I can see, the days off tend to come in much bigger blocks. That’s the bit that interests me, along with finally scratching the long haul itch.

DHK go through phases. Sometimes they hire only FOs, other times they take DECs.

General atmosphere

What’s the general mood in the company at the moment? Many many happy people, they've done a great job of recruiting the right sort of people over the last few years. Doubled the workforce in that time frame and basically everyone is a good egg. Not to say there aren't complaints from folk, some valid, some need a reality check. It's a freight job after all, not a silver spoon airline. If you keep your head down then there will be no issue whatsoever.

Are most people broadly happy or is there a lot of underlying dissatisfaction? Most people broadly happy. Complaints usually come from pay (or the UK tax system), paxing around the network (makes sense to the company) and being on standby down route (fully paid in a 5 star hotel, often not called out...free holiday sometimes). And standby if you're a commuter (sometimes trips get canned and you get put on standby instead, annoying and HOTAC in EMA not covered in EMA (unless you have 2 flying duties separated by less than 20hrs in EMA, so not that often). Apparently BALPA HQ rate them as the happiest airline but I haven't seen that published, just crew room chat.

Roster and lifestyle

I’ve been told that on the 777 it’s typically one trip per month, occasionally two, with trips up to around 14 days.

Does that reflect reality? Perhaps for now, but likely to increase to about 2x 5-7 day trips a month as the triples arrive - 4 more due this year. Seems that the super long 14 day trips aren't on the rosters anymore.

How predictable are the rosters in practice? Predictable as in your days OFF will be un touched. Roster published well in advance. Trips change, get re routed etc, expect often changes to your working day route before a trip but not many changes to the trip once you've started it. Thats the nature of cargo. I take the glass half full view that my work days are for them to do with whatever they want. I know i'll be home on my off days. I get annoyed booking hotels and Air BNBs last min but I'm a commuter and knew what I signed up for, take the wins with the losses. It's not a scheduled airline like pax land, things change. People get annoyed at that, I don't really get annoyed at that to be fair. My biggest factor is that I rarely take any work chat or complaints home to vent to the wife.

Also on rest:

I’ve been told rest is half the preceding duty plus one day, but I’ve also seen plus two days mentioned elsewhere.

What is it in reality? Long haul over 4x timezones is the latter. Otherwise its +1 day. Mostly +2 days. Bedrooms available in EMA on return of duty if you're too tired to drive home. Airport standby is catered and you get a bedroom in the crew room (I think ASBY is only on the 756/767 though).

Command timeline

For now, about 5 years for a new joiner, but that's purely guesswork. 3/4 years ago, people were getting commands within the year. Might improve as more units arrive but for now there are a lot of command ready FOs that have left their previous command gig.

Command process

Very fair. Internal command/management course to be done first then a sim assessment before the command course, high success rate.

Overall move worth it?

I don't see myself leaving for a while, i'm glad to be away from the 900hrs a year and last year I did 250 hrs. Obviously a lot of time down route but I like that. Good social aspect and the company have deep pockets. 5% pay rise in april, bonus that's never not been paid, not once has anyone been made redundant ever...some proper career safety.

I'll also add that there's many part time offerings available, the best one looks to be a 91% contract, which is basically full time flying roster but instead of 42 leave days, you get 70. Many folks on that and it's really no battle to get part time, they offer it once or twice a year and I don't think I've heard anyone not get it.

You'll alternate working xmas, one year on and one year off etc. That's peak season. But you'll NEVER have any issues getting leave any other time of the year unlike a lot of other places.

Thanks for the detailed reply geardown1 , really appreciate it.

Summer leave would be a luxury for me, never had that before, and good to hear part time options are actually realistic.

It does sound like a good place to work with the right sort of people, which is a big factor.

For me it’s a massive gamble at this stage. I wouldn’t be in a rush to get command back and 5 years would be fine, but anything much longer than that starts to interfere with retirement plans. From what you’ve said, and others, it sounds like there’s a big queue of command ready FOs already, so I suspect 5 years is probably on the optimistic side, but appreciate it can move either way depending on fleet and expansion.

Plenty to think about.

They don’t take 737 captains to be 777 captains , They have prior heavy command time . I imagine with the ME meltdown they’d be no shortage of 777 Caps looking for a way out

I can’t add anything more than Geardown1.
For me it’s a great place to work and I’ve been through many airlines including a stint in the ME.
I’d say the BALPA survey was correct, it’s a great place to work, people are fantastic both on the ground and in the air.
There's no interference from management, just get the parcels there on time safely and efficiently, that’s all they ask.
This will be my last airline to retirement and as was said above, it is probably the most secure flying job in aviation.

Hi all,
Refreshing to hear such positive feedback, fairly rare these days! All things considered it sounds like a great gig.

Hoping someone in the know could possibly help with a query before I pull the trigger on an application. I'm out in The ME and probably like a fair few, i'm looking for a change. The job listing states for 777 a minimum of 500 hours on type required. While I don't quite have that yet (311) I do have 6000+ on the 787. Normally those 190 hours remaining would come fairly quick but it's dried up a bit as you can imagine!
My UK CAA ATPL/IR 777/787 is valid as well. I'd like to think being a bit short on 777 hours wouldn't be an issue, but appreciate that technically I don't quite meet the requirements. Thanks in advance!

I think you're precisely what the company is looking for now that they've added some time on type requirement. I'd email the company explaining your situation and I'm sure it'll be well received - [email protected] - or since your in the ME, perhaps reach out to the 777 pilot manager (Damien) on LinkedIn, he's ex EK.

Thanks very much, really appreciate it! I'll do just that. Another quick question if you don't mind, and one that isn't a deal breaker by any means. How does a trip typically start/end? Is it always the case that you operate out/in of EMA, or a deadhead from another UK airport? Im from just a few junctions down The M1 and we do have a place there. East Mids as a base is perfect.

You should start and finish at EMA. If you live close by it could be the perfect job

Could well be! Looks like I may have just missed out this time, seems the listing has been removed from the careers page. I'll keep an eye out in the near future! Thanks for your help everyone!

It'll be back before too long. Plan is for 6 more 777's this year, it's the uncertainty over the delivery dates that has pushed things back a bit.

Does this part time deal reduce the amount of normal days off per month, I think the contract is 130 days off per year? Basically 9% pay cut to get an extra 28 days of AL?

If standard days off arent reduced then it’s a pretty good deal.

So,
Full-Time (120 Days Off + 42 Days Leave) = 162 Therefore 365 - 162 = 203 Working Days
91.7% option (110 Days Off + 30 Days Part-Time + 39 Days Leave) = 179 Therefore 365 - 179 = 186 Working Days
Other options are available.

Simply put, nothing is perfect it comes down to what suits you and your nearest & dearest best.
BALPA CC has done a remarkable job. A 3 year pay deal has just concluded. Year 1 7%, 2 5% & 3 5%. Compounded that equates to 17.9675%. Never mind the increase in bonus or levelling up of pension contributions for F/Os etc...

Beware the commuting policy!