Originally Posted by skyboy83 (Post 10914851)

Believe me, living costs in Greece are not as low as you think. This is why a lot of Greek people are moving abroad to find better working conditions.

Originally Posted by AOGspanner (Post 10916835)

I've worked at Olympic and Aegean so I know the real salaries.

Originally Posted by guy_incognito (Post 10915236)

I think a dash of realism is required here. Firstly, flying is generally not an academic vocation, outside I suppose a test flying environment. There is no reason for it to be academic, or require a high level of academic achievement as a prerequisite for entry. If anything, the required written elements are overly pedantic. There is no earthly reason that a knowledge of Mercator projections or polar stereographic charts should be required in 2020. There is simply no need for an in depth knowledge of aerodynamics, nor the intricacies of performance. The ATPLs may quite rightly be said to be simply learning for the sake of it, or to artificially increase the legitimacy of a flying licence as a qualification. Not only does 95%+ of what is assessed in the ATPL exams not have any practical application in the real world, but I'd venture that the overwhelming majority of current airline pilots would fail if presented with a Gen Nav or Met paper now.

The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.

With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.

With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.

Originally Posted by guy_incognito (Post 10915236)

I think a dash of realism is required here. Firstly, flying is generally not an academic vocation, outside I suppose a test flying environment. There is no reason for it to be academic, or require a high level of academic achievement as a prerequisite for entry. If anything, the required written elements are overly pedantic. There is no earthly reason that a knowledge of Mercator projections or polar stereographic charts should be required in 2020. There is simply no need for an in depth knowledge of aerodynamics, nor the intricacies of performance. The ATPLs may quite rightly be said to be simply learning for the sake of it, or to artificially increase the legitimacy of a flying licence as a qualification. Not only does 95%+ of what is assessed in the ATPL exams not have any practical application in the real world, but I'd venture that the overwhelming majority of current airline pilots would fail if presented with a Gen Nav or Met paper now.

The reality is that (airline) flying is extremely prescriptive, with a vast amount of automation (not just in terms of the aircraft themselves). Flight planning is done by the Jepp or LIDO computer at HQ, weight and balance is done by plugging numbers into a computer, ditto the performance. Increasingly the job on an airline pilot is to perform a series of actions (SOPs) by rote. Aircraft are extremely reliable, seldom have major mechanical problems, and are designed to be simple to operate. A high level of knowledge is neither expected nor required. To say that the job has been dumbed down would be an understatement.

With all of the above in mind, and bearing in mind that the imperative to cut costs is only going to accelerate due to the current circumstances, it's wholly unrealistic to expect that barriers to entry to the "profession" will increase.

With regard to salaries: you're only worth what the market thinks you're worth. That's true for any job. If an airline started offering "jobs" with zero pay tomorrow, there'd be a queue of people out the door ready to sign on the dotted line. It is therefore fanciful to think that there will be a return to anything like 2019 salaries for airline pilots any time soon, and probably ever again. This is a once in a generation opportunity for airline managers to completely redefine the "career" in terms of salaries and conditions, and you can guarantee that they're not going to waste it.

Originally Posted by PilotGreek (Post 11348536)

Hello everyone! Hope my message finds all of you well and healthy!

As the aviation sector is recovering again after the Covid-19 pandemic, I would like to ask you if the salary for newcomers in A3 is the same as referred above (800-1200€ net). It seems that A3 has plenty of flights from both ATH and SKG even for the winter period. I found info related to payscale stating that they earn a basic salary plus duty pay which is 0.02/km+9.8/sector (2016 info). Is this info still valid?

Originally Posted by giord (Post 11966482)

Apparently Aegean looking for DEC and now offering Greek contract to expats. Still peanuts salary? Any insights?

Originally Posted by PontiusPilotus (Post 12072366)

It all depends on what “peanuts” means for each individual…

and before anyone thinks I will commence a discussion on ideology, let me elaborate on my above statement.

cost of living in Greece (and in the case of Aegean Athens) is slightly lower than other major European capitals. The price of gasoline and house heating can be substantial, but nowadays one can find other sustainable solutions (use of electricity) that can keep your utility costs down.

Considering Greece is a country where the average employee salary sits well below the 2k figure, you can imagine that as a captain with Aegean, flying roughly 70-90 hours per month, depending on the season, and a lucrative taxation applied to the per diems only, you can live a decent life with a significant financial status above the standard. It just depends on what other commitments you have (previous investments abroad, family needs, commuting etc) and where/how you would like to be living in Greece.
Put down the numbers, consider an income between 4200-5500€ net, a house rent of 550-900€ depending on the area and the type of house-apartment, utility costs should not surpass the 200€ p month, and from there on one makes their own cash management.

overall, it is not a bad package. The operation is versatile, you have short domestic as well as medium haul flights, a good atmosphere, and an Airbus operation that sets a high standard.

Originally Posted by aviationvictim (Post 12072462)

20 years of Pprune and the statement that 5000 net(not to mention pension and all those other inconvenient necessities) for an airbus captain in Europe is a reasonable package is just about the most outrages statement I’ve ever seen.

Originally Posted by go-around flap 15 (Post 12072502)

Then you need to take your Western European head out of your…

Expand your worldview a bit. Have a look at costs of living and GDP of European countries. €5000 net + hourly pay in Greece is (at least domestically) a quality of life probably not dissimilar to the younger London/Munich/Paris/Amsterdam based legacy Captain.

I’m all for improving T&Cs across the industry but you need to accept the economic reality!