Just adding: physical SIM availability. Instead of the typical 4 + 4 hours for a two crewmember team, we're looking at a minimum of 4 + 4 + 4 + 2, adding OCC re-training session and LVP. That's 175% SIM capacity, once airlines need to re-train en-masse. Creawting a backlog of 4 months while at 6 months the next standard cycle arrives. Whooops.

Line training is a major headache as mentioned. Not only for the limited amount of trainers which can be arranged rather quickly (EASA = even line check just need an appointed "auditor", not TRI/E) but more because of lack of flights. Training 80% of people over 30% of schedule does not have a solution.

This you are talking about is the reason why some airlines (non European for the most part) have kept current and on payroll all their pilots. They want to ensure the livelihood of their colleagues and at the same time betting on being ready 100% when and if things seriously pick up again.
There is no way to hire, train and keep people once and if things seem to pick up.
I for one really hope that companies who are doing this will benefit big time, and take the biggest possible market slice when and if we get to the other side.

Having said all this, if this madness starts again next autumn then..

(and non Far-East Asian almost completely)

Trossie

sorry current isn't the right term, I meant not needing a full rating or much time in the sim.

After all its not likely that over the space of a few weeks we are going to suddenly be back at 100% work rate are we?

obviously the ideal situation is for the airlines to be crewed 100% and ready to go ..... but who's going to pay for that? I will put money (no pun intended, well maybe a bit) that they will expect pilots to take up to 50% pay cuts because they are strapped for cash.

Why not do 1 month full time followed by 2 months off? I know of a 737 airline that does that in order to keep every pilot current. If you are on a pax 747 of A380 obviously this doesn’t work…

This is all a bit academic at least with respect to UK airlines.

The UK government has made it clear that international travel will not be permitted to return in any meaningful sense: the official line is that as long as there's a "threat of variants", a cautious approach will be taken (i.e. forever). In other words, the idea that foreign travel will ever return to 2019 levels is pure fantasy. The days of an annual two week foreign holiday or visiting friends and relatives abroad are gone permanently.

They’ve probably not gone permanently, problem is that the U.K. government doesn’t care if U.K. airlines fly from the U.K. to Europe and back, or European Airlines fly from Europe to the U.K. then back to Europe, and nor will the customers, most of them will book their holidays on line and go for the cheapest option…

Its easy for Cabinet ministers to say to holiday in the U.K, they can afford the £thousands it now costs to book the few remaining decent holidays in Cornwall or wherever. Now far more expensive to go to St Ives than to Benidorm.

Anyone from TUI confirm the rumour that they will be recruiting for summer 2022?

Friend of a friend says that the head of training is saying they need everyone and more for next year

There were some ads for seasonal contracts in Belgium and France with them not long ago. As long as there won't be a new round of restrictions over the autumn and winter, there's every reason to believe that summer 2022 will be a reasonably good one.

TUI in Belgium is a different kettle of fisb. Don't expect similat terms and conditions as with TUI in the UK or Germany, and expect lots of taxi trips.

Still better than jobless.

Stobart Air is gone after failure of the repossession deal which was on the horizon in the past weeks, 480 staff affected. Deeply sorry for everyone involved.

So sad for the Stobart Air crews. Also uncertain future for Carlisle airport.

A close relative is employed by a LoCo that recently just survived going over the edge. He is based in Southern Europe and has been informed that ‘some’ pilots will be recalled, based on seniority. He’s not hopeful as he’s only about halfway up the MSL although a few above him may well vote to accept a pay off that has finally been agreed with SEPLA. The airline are supposedly expanding operations in CPH and HEL so he has bid for those bases, although I suspect preference understandably will be given to locals, although he does hold an EU passport.

He has renewed his medical and license in the SIM last week in the hope that keeping current may be useful when things start moving again, but with the knock back from the latest variants, I suspect seniority will make little difference in the overall scheme of things.

Fly Better

second hand info but pilots were emailed the other day saying that the UK will be recruiting for 2022. 757 pilots are just going to be sat at home when it goes.

I guess more jobs for ex TCX maybe, wasn't one of the mangers ex tcx?

I guess it's good news whoever gets the job.

MrKipling what is your beef with Tui? Did you fail an assessment or something? Since The DFO joined us, he’s been nothing short of a breathe of fresh air especially in these uncertain times.
The only fly in the TCX recruitment ointment was the possible “nepotism” feeling from certain BALPA members.

I sincerely hope Jet2 and Tui both survive this, but your drinking the coolaid is getting pretty tiresome.

Mr Kipling,

There has been no email regarding TUI Airways pilot recruitment for 2022.

It wasn't just balpa members that raised an eyebrow at that company specific intake. I don't know if it was illegal, but it certainly looked it.

Were there any other BALPA member pilots looking for employment with TUI other than ex-TCX? Pardon my question, but as long as a BALPA airline prefers BALPA members to be employed before other "street pilots" i don't see anything wrong with it. Of course if there were any other discrepancies like like not adhering to previous seniority numbers or calling "friends" over others first that's another story. No pun intended. Genuine question here.

EPRman

Unless you and I aren’t on the email list anymore!😱

Biffsticksuperhero

I don't really understand the term drinking the coolaid. I've never failed an assessment there either.

I simply repeated what I was told. If the info was wrong then please accept my apologies, this is after all the rumour network.

Regarding recruitment there in the past I did feel it was somewhat strange that rather than taking direct entry captains on who we already type rated (and there were plenty who would have applied, including from jet2) they took airbus rated pilots saddling themselves with a much bigger training bill rather than passing the rating costs on to their competitors.

So I take it that there is no recruitment planned then for 2022?

I was just being pedantic it was misspelt :)

A321drvr

So is aviation becoming a closed shop now? BALPA only members get employed? What about pilots who are in the IPA or any other union or no union?

With regards to recruitment at TUI, I have it on good authority that to fly the plan in 2022 there would be a need for more pilots which is great news!

Off topic but the elephant in the room is already out of the bag: the recruitment of TCX DEC has caused a lot of bad feeling in the airline not least amongst those who were disadvantaged because of it. It might appear that BALPA had a big part to play in this not least because the chairman at the time of the CC wife was one of the ones employed (fact) but who knows? Well somebody does I guess. Im sure many of us have friends who lost their jobs at TCX, all I am sure very capable pilots who didnt get an interview, maybe they can try again for 2022?

Was it a sensible decision? Well if it was your business and you needed 50 captains to fly your boeings would you not look for rated pilots? After all type ratings arent cheap.

There is distrust amongst many of the pilots of the DFO who seems to be 'looking after his friends' and getting more than his fair share of flying which seems like a waste of resources when his time might be better spent doing his primary role. So as stated above, a breath of fresh air? I would say more of a dubious smell but some people like the smell of their own farts.

I'm sure the DFO is a smashing chap I just hope he isn't looking after his mates at the expense of business, but there is a lack of relevant communication so what do we know?

Posted from a new account because; well you know why.

I suppose in this highly stressful year it is inevitable that fear will drive people to think bad things. But it is worth remembering that when TCX went under, TUI were embarking upon expansion which they were going to struggle to fulfil if they had only promoted from within and recruited from low hours availability on the open market. Also worth a thought that at time, a mere 18m ago, there was a shortage of suitable candidates on that market. As you mention, if a well thought of, well trained, bunch of pilots were available, well, why not take them? At the time, it also was seen as hugely uplifting to see the union and a big employer working hard to tidy up the mess left by TCX. I have no doubt that the ramifications of that decision combined with Covid19 will be a drag on many pilots careers, especially those close to command and this will lead to dark muttering about collusion and favoritism. Its not going to help anyone, because the cause of the problem is outside the scope of any management.

Of course, that's complete nonsense - If TUI UK DEC recruitment had been publicly opened up, there would have been a deluge of applications from experienced type rated captains. That, and rumours of shameless nepotism added just one more item to the now very long list why I cancelled by balpa membership, (though a revelation that any balpa CC member could be self serving, would be a surprise to, well .... pretty much nobody)!

I have to agree, I had friends with 2 decades plus of command time on the 737 asking why they couldn't apply. After all TUI is the place people want to work and long may it stay this way!

I also know plenty of very competent first officers at TUI who know the operation, have a proven track record, have been identified as command suitable and were ready to go.

Galley Cart ..

" the elephant in the room is already out of the bag "

Outstanding metaphor there ... big bag then ?

Sick

If Tui had opened its recruitment to publicly, they would have indeed been inundated with applicants, can't argue with that. From an economic POV recruiting from the TCX pool was efficient and quality assured. Its so easy to forget the situation only 18 months ago where there was a real desire to help the unemployed pilots back into jobs. There were plenty that didn't get past application or the selection process.
Rumours without any proof are just that, rumours. Galley FM was never a good source to base an opinion or a decision.

Just having a Pprune catchup and I read this

I am certain that the vast majority of the Jet2 staff do not feel this way, these comments are despicable🤬

I've just heard cabin crew at TUI are facing redundancies.
just to clarify this its to reduce the headcount during the winter months.

and Sid Plate, yes of course its a big bag, it had an elephant in it, and a cat.

Some updated models

https://www.eurocontrol.int/publicat...date-2021-2024

Bit of a shock today hearing that TUI are closing their Edinburgh base, even though yesterday balpa hinted that everything is just fine.

JET2 update
 

Via PM: Bad taste among the pilot community at what has come across as deception by the company. Company agreed via BALPA to back track yet again on increasing pay from the current 70%, the next day it emerges that cabin crew, engineers and managers will have their pay increased up to 90%. Initially company refused to comment but have recognised the distaste and sent out an email from the top explaining that pilots are essentially already getting too much and that they were losing people to non flying roles because the 70% pay was too low. Has pissed alot of people off particularly the trainers who have been working full time throughout. No choice but to accept for now but yet another own goal that will cost them crew once opportunities open up elsewhere.

More trouble at mill. Well it is what it is. Many are experiencing tough times, many tougher than our industry.
Just need to be able to deal with things. Life is tough for many, too many truth be told, but what can one do.

Hey Whitemonk, trying to make a story where there isn’t one. You should work for the media! Yes, there is an argument the trainers should have been paid more. I would not have argued against it. I also think being paid 75k a year to be sat on my @rse is not such a bad gig. Some pilots will not get back into a cockpit until next year. How can you pay an employee 100% for nearly 2 years when your outgoings far outweigh any monies received? Talking to many of my colleagues, we can see the pay will remain at less than 100% to at least 1 April next year. Do we want this, no. But at the end of the day, we will all have jobs. And when things do pick up, then I think that the company will want to thank us. Call me delusional🤪

Indeed, what a "horrible" deal it is to be holding a job with a stable company and hardly doing any flying for "only" 70% of your salary... Think of what many pilots have been through in the past 15 months, with no clear end in sight, including TRIs, TREs, wide-body and narrow-body Captains with a five-digit number of hours etc. Then you might appreciate that it's actually not that bad.

what airline can be described as “Stable” right now? 🤦🏼‍♂️

Jaf4fa

Yes you are delusional, the majority of the pilot body is on nowhere near 75k. And as for the thanking you part, well I'll let you figure that part out down the line.

Nearly £1387 million in the bank (not including customer money) after a £373.8m loss. That’s how stable😳

sure, course they do. If you believe that 🤣

Sort of makes a mockery for the 102 pilot redundancies last year and the fact they’re increasing everyone’s pay apart from the non management pilot work force.