Exactly Mr Cat.

And I do suspect the cool aid was exhausted at the same time as Phillips morning prayers stopped.

Had a nice chat with him once in BOH as a very new Electra FO, seemed ok, can’t but admire his achievements without a chin beard, Wolly jumper and punk band.

And completed my IR with Chanex freight pilots that still instructed and loved the place.

but then who doesn’t love flying freight.

shhhhh….don’t tell anyone about the freight thing, it’s a secret.

“Drinking the Kool-Ade came from the Jonestown Massacre

JET2 NTR DEC
 

Hi everyone,

I am attending a DEC (NTR) assessment day and sim soon and wondering if there is anyone who's recently been through the process who can share their experience with me? PilotAssessments.com details a bunch of AON aptitude and reasoning tests but so far, all I've been sent ADEPT-15 behavioural profile questions. Perhaps the aptitude fun and games are no longer part of the process (here's to wishful thinking)?

Feel free to PM if you prefer. Thank you.

I can think of many SFO’s at Jet 2 with between 5 and 10 thousand hours who are experienced in the company, have plenty of hours on type (admittedly mainly Boeing but also some with airbus experience) who are waiting for command assessments. Having joined as a type rated DEC, admittedly over ten years ago, I still wonder why they are advertising for NTR captains now with so many highly experienced SFOs who could be promoted if they weren’t put off by the ridiculous internal upgrade requirements.

Care to qualify this comment? I have seen many quality FOs upgrade to Captain, at the absolute minimum 3000 factored hours, but there are very few FOs with between 5-10 thousand hours. The upgrade requirements are to have a clean disciplinary record, show that you're capable of learning the command role and taking responsibility, and answering a few questions on the Part A etc. Then there's a development course and final assessment.

Let me know which airlines make it really easy to upgrade. I'll avoid them :ugh:

haha that is NOT all of the requirements. If it was, there wouldn’t be a need to hire DEC’s. They seem to make it as hard as possible to upgrade. ( from what I’ve heard )

If they were put off the by the ridiculous, which it's not, upgrade requirements then they wouldn't be waiting for a command assessment as that only happens after they have applied forrrrrr....command.

Well , it’s obvious why I’d think
With a rapidly expanding fleet you need a mix of newly upgraded , cross fleet and DEC , otherwise new FOs have no one to fly with as in most outfits you can’t roster 2 pilots “ inexperienced on type or role “.

You heard wrong. Try asking all the guys and girls who passed, instead of the failed guy with 5-10,000 hours who couldn’t get their command as they felt it was made too hard for them.

I have to say I don’t think the command course should be easy to pass.
The level of skill, discipline and maturity required to take a multimillion dollar aircraft and 200+ lives to some very interesting and challenging places means that the command course should be stretching, it shouldn’t be easy, it should be challenging.
It should leave the candidate feeling like they can cope with any realistic emergency the aircraft can throw at them in a timely and considered fashion while maintaining a high level of safety.
Not all 5-10,000 hour FOs are able to demonstrate this.

What I would add is that if you have previously held a command at a reputable airline then you have demonstrated the required aptitude to be a Captain, and sometimes its better for the airline to take a very experienced Captain and type rate them rather than upgrade an FO. It’s quite easy to take a B777 or A340 captain and train them to fly a A320 or B737. It’s not that easy to take an FO and train them to think like a Commander.

it’s supposed to be a course ? You’ve passed the assessment , now they teach you .

Its not supposed to be yet another chop ride- if you make it too hard people come out with their new found confidence in tatters .

It will never be “ easy “ regardless , unless you are a cross between chuck Yeager and A super computer

It is a course, but at the end of the day the candidate has to perform to the required standards.

Is it a chop ride? Every flight we do has an element of chop ride about it. Every sim certainly, but also every single flight. Screw up enough and you won’t be getting another chance.

What separates good trainers from bad trainers is the ability to put a candidate at ease so they don’t realise it’s a chop ride. As the CAA say, there’s no such thing as a “non jeopardy sim”.

Actually, this is the most common misconception and misses the whole point about taking a command. You can't teach responsibility, but you can mentor and guide someone, and polish their basic command skills on a command course. A nominee needs to arrive having put years of learning and practice at home, knowledge of the books, armchair flying scenarios and practising leadership skills with the crew at work. Then it's just a gentle push in the right direction should they start to slip on the course.

From my experience the aforementioned 5-10,000 hour FOs still waiting, are actually the ones who just can't self-reflect and learn to change. Or maybe just don't want to put the work in during their own time and think it's the Company's job... not realising that having sole responsibility for an outcome is the very definition of a Command.

Anyway, this is starting to drift from the thread.

Hold poo
 

Been in the NTR Hold Pool since January… would you start looking elsewhere? Really wanted to join jet2 but also trying to be realistic…second time I’ve passed an assessment and been left swimming.

I’m the same, and don’t think it’s going to happen (would be nice to know why but all the arguments above don’t do anyone any good). I’m looking elsewhere now and there’s a lot popping up at the moment so maybe J2 not meant to be.

Never say never. A friend of mine has just had a call out of the blue at another leisure airline offering a contract. They were in that hold pool for 13 months!

I feel the same to be honest, not completely given up hope but applying elsewhere and won’t turn down other options this time round.

NTR FO or CPT?
wonder if there’s a difference in need between two, and I think base preference might have a bearing on it as well as overall assessment scores?

NTR FO

Not sure they were pretty keen to tell me straight away on the assessment day that I got the role. (Did the airbus sim in December and assessment in Jan)

Anyone had any calls with start dates? Seems like recruitment is still very much on-going but start dates are few and far between.