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A tonne remaining at destination would give you 10 mins on the 777-200. Bear in mind that it costs you around 4% of the fuel in fuel burn to carry it per hour...essentially on a 12 hr flight back from Singapore, you will burn nearly half your extra fuel just carrying it. Apologies for thread creep and teaching anyone to suck eggs. |
Originally Posted by CaptainSouth
(Post 10224122)
Just as a matter of interest, for the next sector it will cost 572 kg to carry the extra 1000 kg of fuel. So it DOES matter whether you carry extra fuel because you feel like it. It is also why companies would rather get 1 diversion from 100 sectors with min op fuel, than no diversions with 100 flights carrying extra fuel. F/O's need to grow up and Captains need to show some leadership. F/O is a Co-Pilot, not a Co-Captain. Input is expected, absolute acceptance of your way of doing things shouldn't be. Most of the F/O's attitude towards fuel stems from Captains, so you only have yourselves to blame for our attitude at times. I expect my Captain to show leadership, guidance that will help me develop as a pilot. Not to dump your personal sh!t and hatred of the company on me. Nor am I interested in your "tricks" and "techniques" for screwing the company. |
I expect my Captain to show leadership, guidance that will help me develop as a pilot. Not to dump your personal sh!t and hatred of the company on me. Nor am I interested in your "tricks" and "techniques" for screwing the company. |
I can’t even imagine what a tip or technique for screwing the company could be.....can you give an example? |
- Flying slow to pad your time/pay without regard to schedule
- Making sure you depart late every time to worsen the stats (no benefit to oneself, just screwing the company) |
Fly inefficiently; too high, too low, too fast, too slow. Take extra fuel just ‘because’. Purposefully exceed FTLs. Leave late, leave too early. Configure way before you need to. Leave the APU on when it’s not needed. Flog the engines. How many more do you want? |
Flying slow to pad your time/pay without regard to schedule - Making sure you depart late every time to worsen the stats (no benefit to oneself, just screwing the company) Take extra fuel just ‘because’. Purposefully exceed FTLs. Leave late, leave too early. Configure way before you need to. Leave the APU on when it’s not needed. Flog the engines. How many more do you want? |
Originally Posted by Chesty Morgan
(Post 10225841)
Leave the APU on when it’s not needed. |
Originally Posted by Vokes55
(Post 10226412)
I've experienced the opposite far more often, turning the APU off when it's needed, to save 30kg of fuel. I had a captain turn it off in Ibiza when it was 35 degrees outside. If it's not a comfortable temperature for myself or the cabin crew, it's staying on.
Ahhhh, bless! Did you get a sweat on, princess?! That nasty captain! Actually I quite agree - leave the bugger on. |
Bit like single engine taxi with the remaining engine revving it’s balls off! Bravo! |
Originally Posted by framer
(Post 10226168)
No more thanks. I can see we work in pilot groups that have different cultures and luckily for me I haven’t experienced yours.
It’s quite simple really - you know what you’re supposed to do to achieve an efficient, cost effective, operation so if you're aim was to be inefficient and expensive then you would do the opposite. |
For fuel, I normally ask the other pilot(s) what they think and take the biggest number. I feel if I don’t, I might as well say: “I value your input... just not very much."
At the end of the day, I’m not that concerned about the fuel on board if it’s safe and legal (and all the people I fly with are aware of the commercial implications), I'm much more interested in what happens when we start running out of it and that can happen irrespective of how much you took in the first place. When I got my command, I remember the manager handing me the four stripes advising me to put some extra on over the next few trips, even if I felt I didn’t need it, just to leave more thinking time until I bedded in. To answer the OP, having done ~10,000hrs in the RHS, I would expect a new captain to lead the operation but utilise the skills and experience of those around them. There’s no shame, in fact quite the reverse, in asking others who may have better knowledge in a particular situation, e.g. the FO has 5,000hrs on type and the captain has 50. If they wish the aircraft to be operated in a particular way inside SOPs, then they should make this clear, not rely on mind-reading from the RHS. I would also expect them to be confident but not overly so and interact in an open way with all their colleagues both on and off the flight deck. |
Originally Posted by framer
(Post 10223858)
<div style="text-align:left;">I plan to land with 1 hr 20 mins in tanks on a nice day in the 737-800.<br />A normal missed approach with vectors sees me doing the second shot with one hours fuel onboard. ( it uses 20 mins of fuel but takes 12 minutes). A flap non-normal would see me doing the high speed approach with low fuel lights on and approx 50 mins of fuel onboard.</div>
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<br />Hmm.......<br />Low amber is 907kg in each main tank. if you don't use 2500kg /hr as a rule of thumb (inc alt, diversion etc. It might end at best with the cojo passing the brown trousers! |
Originally Posted by framer
(Post 10226821)
Can you try again please, I don’t understand you. |
Ok. Still not quite sure what you’re trying to say. I use 2400kg/hr or 40kg/min (737-800) in most circumstances but obviously not all. Is that what you were angling at? I just want to make sure I’m not missing out on learning something. |
Originally Posted by framer
(Post 10225144)
I can’t even imagine what a tip or technique for screwing the company could be.....can you give an example? I've flown in a few different outfits on narrow bodies ans TP's and seen some !!!! going on. Taking extra fuel for NO reason, just for personal comfort. Then in cruise realizing that the fuel was way too much and unable to defeat that decision just burning the fuel (fast and low), instead of bringing it home (like someone mentioned before). EVEN when well ahead of sched. Then just to appeal the bean counters banging it in on a lower configuration and "save" 10kg. Flying fast to get a free transport home for the cabin. Flying slow for a higher allowance. I remember a chief pilot who took extra only when there was a real reason to lift it. Then what ever was going on, he just "produced" some fuel wisely en-route. Fuel is an expensive resource and our friend. This is a business. Back to topic. Expectations from the other pilot; just an healthy CRM. And it starts at the briefing. But there no democracy in the end. TOS |
As an FO, I'd expect the new upgrade to be a competent operator and I would offer everything I have in order to ease his/her job.
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So what happens when you legally can't carry your hypothetical fuel? Does the chance of such probelms disappear because you are at Max LDG Weight? |
This thread tends to indicate what a hopeless bunch of despots we are,in the Left seat....
F/Os..please DONT be influenced..:sad: lol... |
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