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-   -   Retirement Age for Pilots (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/604703-retirement-age-pilots.html)

Sorry Dog 1st July 2018 15:11


Originally Posted by inxs52 (Post 10184012)
Pushing it back to 60 ? OMG...why is FAA so obsessed with age limits. Here in Oz, you can fly as long as you want, if you pass their medicals (and they are stringent). Ageism is alive and well in the US, it seems
If USA adopted the same policy, there goes away half the shortage problem.

It seems quite counter intuitive that the FAA would lower age limits at this time. If they did so right now, they would put a big target on their backs for exacerbating the "shortage" problem, especially with respect to the regionals. Once the mainstream media gets a hold of it, it would be trumpeted that they are the cause of it and climbing ticket prices... nevermind that fuel is the largest single component of a ticket price.

bafanguy 2nd July 2018 18:32

Originally Posted by BluSdUp https://www.pprune.org/images/buttons/viewpost.gifThere is talks about putting it back to 60.


BSU,

Who's talking about that ?

bafanguy 2nd July 2018 18:36


Originally Posted by Sorry Dog (Post 10185842)
It seems quite counter intuitive that the FAA would lower age limits at this time.

It sure does !!

JPJP 3rd July 2018 21:23


Originally Posted by Denim and leather (Post 10091433)

I started laughing when I read the beginning of that article:

using case study work that is being performed by member carrier ASL Airlines Hungary. ASL Airlines Hungary is working with the Hungarian CAA and Hungarian aeromedical specialist Pharma Flight

The Euro Regional airline lobbyists dug up an airline in Hungary, and then paid a specialist called Pharma; to tell them what they want to hear. Aided by the august members of the Hungarian CAA. Sounds totally legit :p It also sounds like the ERA goes to the same conferences as the U.S. RAA.

ShotOne 3rd July 2018 23:14

And why would they go to such weasel lengths...other than to increase the supply of pilots to ensure there’s a plentiful supply of flying lemmings prepared to fly for a pittance.

the inescapable fact remains, beyond the 60’s the odds of heart attack, stroke and other serious issues increase very steeply.

Wizofoz 3rd July 2018 23:55


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10187821)
And why would they go to such weasel lengths...other than to increase the supply of pilots to ensure there’s a plentiful supply of flying lemmings prepared to fly for a pittance.

the inescapable fact remains, beyond the 60’s the odds of heart attack, stroke and other serious issues increase very steeply.

But to an unacceptable extent, particularly in multi-crew operations?

JPJP 4th July 2018 04:27


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10187821)
And why would they go to such weasel lengths...other than to increase the supply of pilots to ensure there’s a plentiful supply of flying lemmings prepared to fly for a pittance.

the inescapable fact remains, beyond the 60’s the odds of heart attack, stroke and other serious issues increase very steeply.





Egzactly. Shot Out.


Wizofoz - But to an unacceptable extent, particularly in multi-crew operations?
I see where you’re going, but no. Not for me, nor for the pilots beginning their careers. Management got themselves into this mess, now they’re going to have to pay their way out of it. And I don’t mean pay a politician in Hungary. They (ERA, RAA, A4A etc.) want it for all the wrong reasons. The law of unintended consequences is a real witch. Chinese style medical for all ? How about a nice taste of government required Angioplasty for everyone, just to make sure your heart’s in good shape ?

Then we have these sorts of issues. Ageism, incompetence or just slowing down; How do they decide ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/811...irbus-training



parabellum 4th July 2018 08:48

ShotOne and JPJP
 
According to medics the critical ages bracket for heart attacks is in the region of 44 years to 58 years.

Rated De 7th July 2018 07:46


Originally Posted by JPJP (Post 10187924)




Egzactly. Shot Out.



I see where you’re going, but no. Not for me, nor for the pilots beginning their careers. Management got themselves into this mess, now they’re going to have to pay their way out of it. And I don’t mean pay a politician in Hungary. They (ERA, RAA, A4A etc.) want it for all the wrong reasons. The law of unintended consequences is a real witch. Chinese style medical for all ? How about a nice taste of government required Angioplasty for everyone, just to make sure your heart’s in good shape ?

Then we have these sorts of issues. Ageism, incompetence or just slowing down; How do they decide ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/811...irbus-training


The genesis of the problem is demographic.

As successive governments ignored an aging population and impact on expenditures and declining revenue, so did airline management ignore it. They drove terms and conditions to the point that insufficient new pilots are willing to take the necessary investment for what is now on offer. Self defeating in the long term, but driven by short term bonus culture it was always someone else's problem.

The reason for retirement of airline pilots at a particular age approximating 60 was due cognitive decline.
Whilst not evident in all pilots at the same time, 'on average' statistically it was correlated with an age profile.
This progressive decline was accelerated with circadian rhythm disturbance, digestive imbalance and many of the things pilots (and indeed Cabin crew) live with.
Whilst it is important to note that not all pilots deteriorate universally, many of the studies refuting the decline are done with older pilots EXERCISING private pilot licences and not those involved in Long Haul night operations.

Now airline management who have previously simply targeted limits to drive 'efficiency' aren't happy. Safe with their weekends off, nights in the own beds and Christmas with their families, they want more.


The regulators are being pressured to lift the retirement age again. Airlines want more from crew, not less.
Qantas CEO Joyce already virtue signaled the Australian regulator CASA to lift the limit for operating crew beyond the current 20 hours.
Interestingly and rather unsurprisingly, the studies undertaken for the long range flying being undertaken by the Qantas 787 did not include pilots and cabin crew.

Oriana 7th July 2018 12:41


the inescapable fact remains, beyond the 60’s the odds of heart attack, stroke and other serious issues increase very steeply.
In Australia you can fly beyond 65 years (domestic) as long as you meet the (more) stringent medical requirements.

We don't seem to have many 'older' guys dieing or being incapacitated in flight.

If you want older pilots to GTF out of flying so you can take their place, well, that's quite selfish. Those guys earnt their stripes, and their experience.

ShyTorque 7th July 2018 16:08

If the UK government lowered the State pension age, instead of steadily increasing it as they have been doing, it would put a few more pilots "in the bracket" and they might take the option to hang up the headset that one last time.

Fareastdriver 8th July 2018 08:20


Chinese style medical for all ?
I obtained my first Class One CAAC medical at the age of 66. I renewed it again that year and again three times after that. When my contract finally expired when I was 68 I still had a Class One medical certificate.

captplaystation 12th September 2018 12:16

That being the case, why do the Chinese have such restrictive hiring criteria age-wise. . . . . . . . and also, what happened to the post from button push ignored claiming that something was about to be imminently rubber-stamped, that all went a bit quiet , along with his post .

NoelEvans 14th September 2018 11:24


Originally Posted by Oriana (Post 10190827)
In Australia you can fly beyond 65 years (domestic) as long as you meet the (more) stringent medical requirements.

We don't seem to have many 'older' guys dieing or being incapacitated in flight.

If you want older pilots to GTF out of flying so you can take their place, well, that's quite selfish. Those guys earnt their stripes, and their experience.

All the in-flight incapacitations that I have heard about for quite some time have involved pilots much younger than 60!

Regarding those selfish younger pilots who just want the 'older pilots' out of the way, with the increasing pilot shortage that argument is very much part of the past and one would expect younger pilots to have the 'situational awareness' to be able to see that! (However, I suppose that that sort of selfishness does somewhat blinker their thinking. Maybe that might explain why many of them are still 'SFOs'!)


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