Not true either though. That was the -15 agreement and that pay scale didn't hold long.

Is that gross? Bloody hell I never realized how underpaid SAS pilots were.

Oh but it IS true. But due to yearly CLA pay increases the F/O cap at step 14 as of 1 April has increased to 68091 SEK (~6200 EUR) GROSS per month (Stockholm base).

Fightthepower, I think I misunderstood your post. Are you saying a SAS new hire who eventually becomes a full time Captain will earn less than a LHR Captain. I did not know this.

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Most certainly still is true for payscale in Sweden.

Definitely, and not only that. A new hire who eventually becomes a captain will be on forced part time in winter on a variable roster further reducing his or her salary. Summers of course full time with no more than two days off in a row.

Whilst the LHR captain enjoys their full time 5/4 roster year round.

Obviously this may be a moot point as everybodys job is at risk during the crisis.

Im really sick and tired of the narrative that management is trying to push ”blah blah maintain competetiveness”.

It is about fragmenting the pilot group into as many little pieces as possible much like Ryanair did once upon a time.

All of SAS mainline went on strike for a week in 2019 and still 25% of flights operated normally. Why do you think that is?

Oh yes. Yearly CLA pay increases achieved through pretty intense negotations and a strike or two.

Before that the numbers were even more laughable.

One of the reasons I never considered SAS mainline, their pay structure is not very competitive.
However I am guessing there is more "other" costs for the employees in SAS mainland. Such as social security, pensions etc? Which when you add this up makes the Scandinavian based pilots more expensive. However that is clear TC's at SAS are not very good for new joiners, but I guess there must be some still on older contracts that were quite lucrative, or has it all been restructured?

The cap yes, but the number (€5500) was off.

The total cost of an employee has to be regarded. Whether a SAIL pilot is cheaper/more expensive is not trivial to decide, unless you sit on the actual numbers. And what's CAE's commission in this? The real benefit of having pilots through an agency is they cost you nothing through COVID19.

It has been calculated and benchmarked over and over, they are more expensive, end of discussion. And it hasn’t been difficult, their t&c has been made very public by CAE, cost of social security is just a search on google away.

And it is not really that strange when considering the following

1. Top of payscale equivalent from day 1, both for FO and CAPT. It takes a mainline pilot 14/24 years to reach the same. That is some serious compounded difference.

2. All pilots on fixed 5/4 in SAIL compared to over half of pilots (still, even after the strike) on variable roster in scandi. Meaning you have to hire more pilots to cover the same operation. Roughly 10% more according to SAS themselves when we try and increase the number of pilots on fixed roster.

3. Full time all year in SAIL wheras new upgrades in scandi are forced on part time in winter or there will be no upgrade.

And thats all even before getting into the whole discussion of setting up a new airline with all of its associated and duplicated costs. Offices, staff, operational support, post holders, permits.

Does anybody seriously buy the whole competitive salary structure argument?

... AND the no. of SAIL admin staff is 40+ acc. SAS management. None of which would be needed if the 9 a/c would be operated by SAS themselves. So they are an financial extra burden that need to be outweighed by lower crew costs.

I’m no financial expert but I fail to see how the “saved” crew cost of crews for just 9 a/c will outweigh the 40+ admin cost.

Let me get this right, so from what you wrote above A319 there is no cost savings for SAS to be running the whole SAIL operation.

It all makes perfect sense to me apart of one detail - why SAIL operation is still ongoing and 9 a/c are still Irish reg?

It would actually be a cost saving for SAS to cancel the whole CAE/SAIL deal?

Not to mention the future fine for CAE in Malaga...

Yes. SAIL was only set up bust the pilot unions and start the outsourcing of SAS main a/c types. A life long dream of SAS management.

Regarding the cost saving, you tell me how SAIL saves money for SAS? A/c, fuel, handling, maintenance are still paid by SAS. The only variable parts are the admin and FD/CC cost. Is 40+ admin making this cheaper?

SAS crews are more flexible than year long 5/4 but leave that out of the equation.

AGP fines I never heard of.

CAE in Malaga have been controlled by labour inspection and fined for employing cabin crew without permit to act as a work agency from what I understood. Correct me if I am wrong ;)

Now the Spanish cabin crew union claims that there have been no solution found with CAE and started now a legal case in court against illegal employment of 60 cabin crew by CAE in Malaga base.

Now SAS have announced that they will be laying off about 5000 employees in Scandinavia, I doubt the unions will accept SAIL restarts.

CAE Crewing Services already sent to their crew employed in AGP communication on intention to initiate a collective dismissal process due to production and organizational matters.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...39988?mode=amp

FWIW, the platform strategy (SAS Main, SAIL and external suppliers) remains the chosen path forward.

With several hundred redundancies in the pipeline I doubt the unions have much of a negotiating position from which to start. SAIL isn't loved by the legacy employees, but they are part of the company and in no way deserve to be harassed or looked down upon.

Nobody looks down on them. We are all aware that they are skilled colleagues in this industry trying to make a living.

Look, being replaced by cheaper/more efficient labour is regrettable but inevitable in a free market in the long run. Everybody gets that, ”legacy employees” or otherwise. Hence the overall continuous downward pressure on t&c in the last two decades.

What ”legacy employees” are having a problem with in this particular case is being replaced by more expensive labour, as is the case with SAIL.

There simply is no justification for it, other than dividing the employees into as many little groups as possible with the sole purpose of diminishing their negotiating leverage.

Malaga base closed down and redundancy deal signed by the unions. AGP slots to be operated by SAS mainland.

Sorry to hear that. Any news on the LHR staff?