The reality is that it will suit some and it won't suit others.

I have two close friends that were colleagues with me at FR who were both in the LHS in UK bases on a permanent contract.

They left just last year to join BA on the 74.

Both of them are seriously considering their options at the moment.

It's a lifestyle choice and the simple fact is that they both miss the home time they once had on a 5-4 and both have taken considerable pay cuts in the short term.

Having said that BA will not be short of applicants despite what's said on here. Three of the five FOs I flew with this week are swimming in the hold pool and won't think twice about leaving if the call does come within their 18 month stint .However....

They are not sitting in their mid thirties like me or my two ex colleagues previously mentioned.

Don't get me wrong. Yes it's the best gig in the UK overall. But it simply won't work for everyone.

I'd sit down with your Mrs and explain your emasculation. If she is a good person, she will help. I've flown with too many people who haven't voiced this. Being an engaged father is tough in our job, and much of the disengagement is self-fuelled, but you need help to become involved.

Some others have mentioned this previously, but have you considered going part- time. I would recommend you stay with BA and look at all the available options to improve your work lifestyle balance.

Do your future 60 year old self a favour and stick with BA - part time wide body long haul skipper with LHR base is, in my opinion, the only way to have a long career in this industry as things stand right now. Everyone is different but several earlies in a row and 4 sector days is a young man's game in my view.

You're not kidding.

Would you recommend looking at Cathay?

What's the earning potential in HKG these days?

Depends if you're on the Airbus or Boeing. They do so much overtime on the 777 which isn't hard due to the ULH nature of the flying, a friend of mine who even though being C scale said he earnt 160,000 HKD in December! This is including massive overtime mind you.

Such an interesting thread!

I have to say I am looking at moving myself to a more stable family friendly airline, and easyJet is on my radar!
Every one is unquie, some want money, some want the status, and some want the lifestyle.

I for one want the lifestyle.... but you have to do what is best for you.

I have heard of several BA pilots who applied and are looking at moving to Virgin, as rated 747 pilots, so maybe the lifestyle on long haul may not be that much better as junior pilot.

i bet not one single pilot this calendar year leaves BA as a Captain for another airline. People say a lot of crap on the flight deck when in full on whinge mode.

I trust that he's an FO.

I thought there was an overtime ban :uhoh:

Capt Ecureuill
There's a Fragrant Harbour forum on pprune, where all the Cathay boys and girls post what they think of their airline. Well worth a look.

Here's an informative post from 4 days ago:
On a different 'accommodation' thread, another poster asks for tips on how to live in a property of 50 square feet.

Best of luck!

Meanwhile, (to paraphrase a tag line from a well known reality TV show!) bex88's search for an airline better than BA, continues!!

Now, I dunno but, maybe he can cross Cathay off his list, for an improvement in quality of life?

Just my two cents worth, I left BA in 2009 when the VR was on offer. It was primarily driven by the want to move back 'down-under' where I would be able to achieve a better lifestyle for my Family. I loved the flying with BA but as others have said it was quite hard hitting on my Wife considering I was away a lot. From a lifestyle point of view I have never regretted the move as I have gone to a job as a Training Captain on the A320 where night stops are quite rare, at times I think my Wife wishes I was away a bit more :-) I get to spend lots of time with the kids and my quality of life is streets ahead of what I could obtain around London or gain from a commuting lifestyle. The downsides are:

-Nowhere near the career path of BA, apart from checking I am as high as I can go, no fleet moves here, if I want to go Long Haul anytime in the future then I have to change airlines.

-Leave and days off are on a rotating system, no bidding whatsoever! So I have missed the odd important occasion due to no ability to bid! I have to take the kids out of school for most family holidays as you can forget time off during the school holidays.

-No other general perks, Staff Travel no where near as good (you will miss it!) No paxing in business class etc.... Standard of hotels and 'allowances' no where near as good.

Overall I am really happy with the move and from a family point of view would never go back (even if I could), it has come at the expense though of a career that offered stability and a great variety of opportunities! Everytime I see that BA tail in Sydney I do get very sentimental and generally annoy all my FO's telling them what a great time I had at BA.

By all means if you are going to prioritize family then a move maybe sensible but you will have times in your new job where you regret it! For me though the improved lifestyle was worth it.

QUOTE FROM 3 GREENS I bet not one single pilot this calendar year leaves BA as a Captain for another airline. People say a lot of crap on the flight deck when in full on whinge mode.

A friend of mine is leaving this month for easy jet and another left last month.
So thats 2 i know in 2 months

Likewise; I know of two skippers on the A320 that are leaving, one to Jet2 and the other to easyJet, both as DECs.

Now, I dunno but, I'd be willing to wager short haul BA would be a huge reduction in quality of life for me. I get 18 days off a month.

This isn't about my employer, though. It was pointing out that pay is seriously underwhelming in the U.K.

As for cash, I've just paid my tax bill. If you'd like to know what I made, just say.

Friends in the US Legacy carriers are making $200k without breaking a sweat as year 3 FOs.

4468, do you think there is room for improvement?

Will you stop putting off unhappy BA pilots from leaving... lets encourage them to go*

* for my own purely selfish reasons you understand.


McNugget, I'm sure we would all love to get the US legacy carriers $$$$$'s but as I haven't a green card I can't. I'm not clear on the point you're making.

As for Cathay, is your lifestyle on your mega-buck salary good? I only ask as I didn't bother turning up for the Cathay interview many years ago in a time you guys call the "good times".

Me, I'm happy watching the deer whilst looking out over 6 acres of fields and woodland in Southern England also with 18 days off this month..

Hi McNugget

I comfortably exceeded your 18 days a month, both last month and this. Though I accept occasionally I won't

Why would I be interested in what you made? I have no idea what it costs you to live? As for me, I live in 3 acres with 5 stables, in a Northern county. My property cost little more than twice my annual salary!! My wife and I are both within 20 minutes of our parents, and my kids see their cousins most weekends.

US carriers are frequently protected from bankruptcy by Chapter 11. They lurch from good times to furlough with monotonous regularity! I know which I prefer!

So, do you think there's room for improvement?:rolleyes:

If you are talking LH Capt yep i would agree with you it's highly unlikely, SH however there will definitely be some leaving as others have confirmed above. I've a good friend whose a Capt on SH, he flew with 4 junior FO's before starting their Command courses, they openly admitted that their plan was 1000hrs LHS and then DEC LGW with Easy and the accompanying £20k-£25k pay rise. If you don't want LH at BA and want to be home most nights and not night stopping round Europe who could blame them.

The focus of this whole post is Family & Lifestyle and for some (NOT ALL) you can't achieve this with BA without taking a (25-50%) pay cut to go part time and even then you'll still be away regardless of SH or LH (Excluding LGW) as that is a part of life at BA and for some they love it.

I've done SH at 2 other airlines prior to joining BA on LH and for me personally and my family being home at night (or in the morning!:E) just works better compared to the constant coming and going of a long haul schedule and the associated pressure this puts on things at home not to mention the groggy mild permanent flu feeling!:{ Which of course then affects your ability to spend quality time at home.
I've flown with many guys since joining BA who loved the job in their 20's early 30's, but admit now they are married and have young children that its just not the same for them. This is where it gets tricky at BA because being away is part of the lifestyle that some people grow very tired of.

Seeing as it looks like we're all in the mood for willy waving, but also to add another perspective...

I work for a UK 'charter' airline - I have 5 days of rostered flights between now and the end of February, along with a standby block that I almost certainly won't get called for. I have all but one weekend between now and the end of April booked off, and have three weeks of Summer leave confirmed, which were the exact dates I requested and were granted instantly. I'm full time and earn a higher basic salary than somebody in my equivalent position in BA. Every duty is a one or two sector day, and I've only spent two nights away from home since I started (one of which was a last minute change, which I could've refused). I have a plethora of fleet options and detachments available to bid for to keep me interested. Everybody on my OCC course was offered their first preference of base.

It's probably not much use to the OP, but to anybody 10-15 years junior and wanting to avoid the described scenario, charter is certainly the way to go. Summer will be busier, but for now I have, if anything, too much time off.

Look at the various t's and c's and do what is right for you and your family. Some of the posts I have read are insulting to your family.
Forget status and all the meaningless rubbish, family first!!

you'll be doing most of your flying during the summer, working 7 on 1 off, 7 on 2 off or your employer has seriously lost the plot

I can remember talking to Monarch mates telling me how little work they used to fly for a pretty decent salary. If I worked for an airline that wasn't flying me 700-850 hours a year, I'd be getting pretty concerned because the airlines that do sweat their assets are going to eat your lunch.
Doing what's best for your family includes job security I'd say. Anyway, good luck to all concerned. Let's hope we all have a job at the end of our career and a pension that pays out.

I'm aware that Summer is busier than Winter, but I'd far rather do 8 quiet months and 4 busy, than a constant procession of long 4-sector days every weekend, every month. My life has been far healthier and less stressful since I switched from (low-cost) scheduled to charter.

BA SH wouldn't give me 18 days off a month. That's the crux of the OPs discussion.

I'm sure you get lots of time off - then again, as you repeatedly remind us, you're at the top of the seniority tree.

I too have a several acre property in the UK. If I so choose, I could spend more time in it each month than a BA SH pilot. Again, the crux of the OP's 'beef'.

I didn't drag CX into this discussion. I merely offered to answer a question on it.

If you think that BA SH salary is good for the workload involved, then I am surprised, that's all. I think it is quite poor. The retirement contributions are in need of a good boost, too.

I realise that given your tenure and joining date at BA, you think they can do no wrong.

I think your use of 'monotonous regularity' is slightly loose. It happened since the turning of the century, but before those dark years, and since, US legacy contracts have wiped the floor with BA and VS.

I used them as a reference. I am not American either.

Quality. this thread is hilarious :-))

"I am considerrablay richar than yaaaaooouu"

I would blow my own trumpet, but I don't even have a trumpet, or an acre, or a stable, or 40 days off a month

Pilots talking about possessions. Whatever next? Move along to the next cliche.

To the OP, leave BA. It'll be a far more enthralling conversation for your FO to be involved in. He or she is tired of listening to stories of acreage, porsches and converted Victorian farm houses.

Left BEA in 78 for long haul but because of the retirement of the VC10 chucked in BA. In my six years in BEA we lost eight aircraft..absolute rubbish management.
There were four great carriers then; Cathay, Swissair, Pan Am and TWA. Passed the Cathay interview but took Swissair.
Doubled salary but tripled emoluments.
New American aircraft, well maintained and clean, great cabin crew relationship, and flew jets in a way that none of my mates experienced bar those on Concorde.
But we were expats and foreigners.
Wife couldn't handle the racism nor the isolation...daughter beaten up at school and if you haven't experienced an expat community then don't.
Went from 15 days off to 9 and 9- 20 nights away.
But got a minimum of a month off every school summer holidays, had an au pair so that my wife could come on trips as did my kids and then took up to two months unpaid leave as had the income to do so.
Did it work and would I do it again?
Who knows but many of my friends in BA had a lot of family problems, colleagues visiting their wives, kids on drugs and in prison....
Imho put your family's well being first.
Three of those carriers are gone.
BA nearly went in the 80s.
Met a FR skipper who was on three four day trips per month on 100grand net...now that appealed to me.
PS..it took me 20 years to get a command.
Good luck

I apologise to those that thought I was willy waving and richer than yaaaaooouu, it wasn't meant that way. I know if I had joined Cathay I would be a lot richer than I am now. I was simply pointing to quality of life compared to that I could experience in HKG. Don't get me wrong I love HKG but only to visit even though it costs me an arm and a leg when I do. All off-topic anyway.

As I say, lets encourage those that are unhappy to leave that way terms and conditions may improve and not be viewed as quite poor. Problem is everyone at BA got blackmailed in to taking a hit (SH especially) to bring BMI into mainline rather than face the threat of it being run as a IAG competitor.

I was a British Airways European Division apprentice aircraft mechanic in the 1970s. I left during the severance scheme in the early 1980s along with my father who was BEA from 1949. My mother was also BEA when they first formed at Northolt after the war.
I got my PPL and IMC rating at Booker and went to The United States in 1981 to get my FAA Comm/Inst/Multi as I saw no future in Britain for me.

I have been flying for a very large American cargo airline for over 30 years and Captain for 26 of them. I can honestly say that I have had the absolute best career imaginable. They have been fantastic to work for. The pay and conditions are brilliant. There are 13 28 day pay periods a year. I work two blocks of four nights a pay period, and drop five blocks for vacation and one for training a year. How many people do you know who made themselves deca millionaires from doing this?

The person I started flying with is a Captain on the 747-400 with British Airways. When I look at his schedule I cringe at the thought of doing that much flying.

One of my dearly departed friends was British Airways Channel Islands Division co-pilot on the Vickers Viscount. He was having an affair with the wife of a prominent politician. Upon the discovery of it he was fired. He then went to British Island Airways on the Hanley Page Herald. Again let go, because of the consensual affair. His next stop was British Air Ferries on the ATL98 Carvair and later the Viscount out of Southend.
He then threw the towel in with Britain and came to the United States where his first job was as Captain with Go Leasing who had the largest fleet of Vickers Viscounts in the World. They were leased out to rock bands for tours. Nobody cared who you had affairs with. We flew together for a few years before he retired.

I was once in the American Airlines simulator doing some contract training for another airline. I met a former British Airways Lockheed Tristar pilot who had an American wife. He much preferred his new life with American Airlines to his old one with British Airways.

Now that British Airways is run by Vueling's management team, it is just another a low cost carrier with a big sounding name.
Same problem at Emirates. Once they took the bail out money from Qatar they were slaves to the lender, and they cracked the whip on the employees. I understand it's now intolerable. We have hired several Emirates Captains recently.

There is always 1......callsign kilo thanks for the tip.

For the record take home in the left seat as a junior captain is little more than most F/O's.

I have no interest in a Porsche, a big house or any other crap that you wish to broad brush me with. I have a concern for my kids and my wife. When you are lucky enough to have met someone special and you have seen friends die young then it shifts your priorities. Like people have said this is not about money or about what others have got. It's about meeting the needs of your family both in person and financially.

Sadly, a characteristic that is all-too-common amongst the blue bloods....

Bex88, your last post was spot on.

Money doesn't make you happy. It certainly makes life a lot easier but it doesn't make you happy. I have also seen to many people die to young and who in their live were obsessed with money. They died with lots of cash in the bank to fund all the plans they had for when they retired.

Whilst I don't work for BA I can't comment on them specifically. I work for a charter gone scheduled UK airline whose work is busier in the summer then in the winter. However I still did 800 hours a year with hardly any nights away from home. I am in my mid to late thirties and work 75%, which means a block of 7 days off every 28 days. My other half has the same Part Time block so we are guaranteed to have a week off together each 28 days. It is absolutely brilliant. Yep, money is slightly less but still earning more than enough to have a nice lifestyle. I can highly recommend going Part Time.

Couldn't agree more!

Precisely why I choose to live in a cheap part of the country! That way I can also choose to spend the absolute minimum time at work! I don't need lots of money. I don't want a flash car! My expenses are small. Yes my tax is a bummer, but again, that's my choice. I COULD eliminate that, but my family and I value the UK life/employment safeguards. Many other places are great to visit. (And I have many times!) Wouldn't want to live, even less work there though. Of course because I chose not to live the ex-pat life, my family also have the joy of seeing their relies as often as they wish!

They're happy = I'm happy!

Before anyone asks. Yes this is all possible on SH. Ask me how I know?!

Despite some claiming they know my 'seniority', I don't believe I've ever given any indication? Nor is it important! Nor is it relevant, what fleet I'm on?

Don't have an expensive lifestyle, (ok, or maybe kids!!!) and this job could, with good choices, deliver a perfectly reasonable life!!

The prejudice against BA is rather surprising when one considers the numbers of applicants every time a window opens! Maybe all applicants are stupid, who have done no research. No 'due diligence'. Though I accept bex88 may never have actually wanted to fly for BA. Maybe significant?

Good luck whatever y'all choose.

At the end of the day, if you are working for BA,VS,TOM or TCX on a legacy contract, it is a case of same poo, different flavour. Nothing in the mainstream airline industry is going to turn the clock back 35 years to better times, so all that you are left with is working the system to your best advantage. Seems from the above posters, including myself, PT is the only way to control your life. I'm sorry, but at the age I am now, the thought of doing back to back early starts is exhausting just to think about. But, 15 years ago, I'm glad I suffered it to be home for bath and book time. Sadly, at the time, I couldn't afford to go PT, and the industry was much more resistant to flexible working patterns. Odd, that it is something from EU that actually did us a big favour.

4468. Just to be clear that I am pleased to be flying for BA but my personal life is paying the price. The many posts on here will certainly help as I try to find a solution before it's gone.

I have no prejudice against BA

Bex

Just to clarify I and I think some others were just laughing at the horses, stables and who's got the best time off top trumps game some others were playing -not directed at you. I reckon yours is an interesting post. Food for thought . Crack on talking about it. Balls to the detractors. The more people talk honestly about how they find jobs impact their lives the better.

Have you spoken to BA?.
What about a Training position or is that all at weekends also.

Training is spread evenly throughout the month with a mixture of sims and flying (if you're a TC) or sims only if you are a TCP.

It's reinvigorated my love and interest in the job. Every day is a challenge in some way, I learn LOADS from watching how other people fly aircraft (Eye opening after 20+ years in the job), and it can be an incredibly rewarding occupation. I can highly recommend it.

There is the significant amount of hoop jumping and courses to be passed first mind which was extremely hard work but worth it in the end.

Bex....go to Thomson at a Base near you. I reckon you'll get all, you need for your family. The quiet winter will make up for the busy summer.

Bex88 I've been retired from BA almost as long as you've been alive, so all I can say to you as a very lucky 35year old with a command don't even consider unless you require a long period in your life that you will regret forever! My only grouse would be the removal of my staff travel which I valued more than anything! But all in all BA is a great company!

Part time...part time...part time!

Not a huge amount of options at my airline but I'd guess BA has quite a few choices that are more complex than the 50% or 75% available to me.

I'm 75% which is 5 on/5 off - find something else away from aviation, a new passion with all your new time, involve the wife and family. Something genuinely for yourself and your own satisfaction.

Then just go flying, as nothing more than something to do between your days off!