useless Balpa
 

I have been with easyJet for many years & feel we're at a turning point along with many other airlines facing EASA regulations & the squeezing of terms & conditions.

The Balpa CC have done their usual . They're in dispute with the company but keeping the workforce in the dark .

If they allow the company to change our terms as I understand it , the company are pushing to change our 5/4/5/3 roster pattern to facilitate a more efficient utilisation of crew hours now opened up by the regulators FTL changes ( efficient for the company I stress!) , our job will change for good!

I am a Balpa member & have contacted the CC Chairman on two occasions without response . The general correspondence I do receive from the CC is bereft of any information or directive unless you are worried about which sandwiches are going to be available in the future.

As with other airlines I have worked for , Balpa's blinkered inaction has allowed a gradual deterioration to our job.

We should not let this happen & was hoping more people could push the CC , not just at easyJet but at all airlines to turn around this race to the bottom .

Maybe we could all contact our representatives directly & demand action & not put up with the usual 'it's commercially sensitive' comments from our brown envelope accepting 'representatives' before it's too late.

Surely your CC should be in contact, via BALPA head office, to discuss what other CC's are doing about combating the decline you mention. As it is industry-wide should the response from the sharp end coal face diggers not also be industry wide? Trying to go it alone will be useless because the company will claim they "have to competitive." If everyone is on a level playing field due to a united BALPA response..........
'United you stand divided you fall'. and therein lies the rub. Whenever has the industry been united? If a further decline in T's & C's and a further reduction in lifestyle and quality of life is not enough to galvanise the troops then nothing will. However, as always, it needs leadership. You pays your money you gets your choice; but do you. Are you really getting what you pay for? You decide; all of 100's of you.

Balpa are a disgrace and have allowed untold scandals to occur to the pilot community in the UK over the last 10 years. 30k for a type rating? 50% pay during training? Dwindling Ts + Cs, part time contracts, contractors receiving more money and bonuses ahead of full time staff etc etc. But the problem is..... we are all Balpa, and as such, we are a disgrace. Look at Balpa's recent cave in against Flybe management for example, all allowed by selfish pilots who don't have the intelligence or self respect to look after their own futures. Yet like you said they are quick to email about what next years crew food portfolio might contain... (I'm gonna guess some form of sandwich)

Balpa are simply a reflection of their members: weak

Any CC is made up of those who are willing to stand up and represent their colleagues. Anyone can stand for CC elections and they are held every year. If the end result is a collection of people of more senior background round then either they are the only ones standing or they have previously gained the respect of their colleagues (or both). I believe the case in easyJet to be both.
If an individual on the CC has failed to respond to emails there's probably a good reason for it but in any case it can be easily rectified by using the CC group email address or go to the National Officer.
If you really want the answers to legitimate questions then get involved in (or start) debates on the BALPA forums.
It's pretty crass to create a new pprune ID just so you can accuse somebody of taking backhanders. If you really think this sort of thing goes on in Balpa circles then you have an awful lot to learn. For the record I'm not on the easyJet CC either but they deserve better than this :*

BALPA is a s weak as we allow them to be. They are us, and if not us then it's not their concern to look after non members. If we cannot look after ourselves then shame on us. Blame BALPA and you blame yourselves, either for being a weak member that doesn't back them or someone who is not a member expecting them to worry about your terms and conditions for free. Either way its on us.

Your criticism should not be of BALPA but instead if your CC. Your Union is you and your colleagues. It utilises the support structures paid for by all of us. So, rather than winge at us, put yourself forwards and stand for your next CC elections. Then, when you are elected show us the way forwards - show us the route to take so we can start rising to the top again.

Thanks.

PM

BALPA needs to address its pricing and its relevance. I read the LOG on the flight deck and I can say that none of the articles were of interest. I am 40 to 50 and lord knows what the new generation of pilots think of it if I find it turgid.

P.S Not a member

I agree that The Log is a waste of space. But that's not why I joined. I wanted representation in my company and I wanted a voice. The price of that voice - training for your CC members, legal advice & opinion, ballot support, negotiator etc, is a measly one percent and 2/3rd of that is allowable against tax. Yes you can get cheaper, but not better value for money. But what is amazing is that when things get "interesting" is how many non-members ask what's happening. Bloody cheek. They can do their own negotiating.

While it's not true for every company, I believe my own CC have negotiated the best terms that has been possible over the last fifteen years or so. I'll also be well and truly in profit for the rest of my life for the deals that have won and for the first time in many years we have some certainty with regards to our future.

Lastly, what I would really good to hear what the really hard, tough guys like Superpilot and CGW would do to change the world. However, I suspect they are more shouty passengers types than the pilots or leaders. And if they are not members, who cares? The only voice they get is here on pprune and whilst it's good for a laugh, it won't contribute to their pension.

PM

"On the ropes" (aka Lawro etc):

I have it on good authority that when you send your mad rants to the CC about them taking backhanders from the company, that you do so anonymously with a fake name and a temporary, disposable email address. Not really surprising that you don't get a second thought, let alone a reply.

"On the ropes" (aka Lawro etc):

So the CC haven't responded to your emails. There are probably several good reasons for this which presumably haven't occurred to you. Nevertheless, there are other methods of contact, such as, you know, the phone - all CC members have their numbers at the bottom of every newsletter, as does the National Officer. One also wonders why you've written this on the non-easyJet forum, or has the moderator become bored of you? :ugh:


To those of you who think The Log is a 'waste of space', you are of course entitled to your opinion. It's under new management now, however, so why don't you write to/email BALPA with your suggestions for new content?

Whilst nothing is perfect, I believe that the current CC is the best we've had. The guys put in an awful lot of time and effort doing the best they can. BALPA is the only game in town and we'd undoubtedly be much worse off without them.

Scandalous they haven't done more to stop paying for ratings/reduced terms for new entrants. Can't think of any other profession that would just shrug the shoulders and blame market forces. Just look at the uproar over junior doctor contracts or the monthly fight RMT have with TFL. Lads need to strap on a pair and stand up for their profession.

Sadly I don't think there's any point comparing BALPA with the likes of the docs or RMT, and saying we should just "man up'

As I understand things in the UK the medics have major control over the supply of chain - via the Colleges, to a single organisation ( the NHS)something BALPA doesn't have, and The RMT has the monopoly on the supply of labour to the London Underground. in both cases the IR situation is very different to ours where we have a range of pilot groups with their own industrial agreements with a multitude of companies.

FWIW I agree that the OPs gripe should be be with his/her CC, not the Union;) as a whole.

I am amazed how chronically ill-informed some supposed pilots are about what a TU is and how it works. (I would have said stupid, but that would get me equally stupid responses).

A TU is, and can only be, a collection of its members. If its members want to take some sort of action to improve their t & c, then it takes 1. All of them to be in the TU, and 2. All of them to be committed to taking the action.

In the end, it is all about Power. You have to choose to use it.

No TU and no CC has a magic wand.

Im guessing "on the ropes" turned down the various pay rises , back dated holiday pay , fixed roster etc etc fought for on our behalf by BALPA in a fit of pique as well ?

BALPA is expensive but ive always had my subs paid back in spades over the years with what they have managed to negiotate with the company.

Without them the whole pilot workforce would be on frv and just a different shade of colour of ryanair.

Life is hard enough at easyjet and any time off is precious , so those guys who VOLUNTEER their own free time to work on our behalf for no extra reward get my utmost respect and admiration.

I couldnt do it and i suspect "on the ropes" neither could you.

Ps the log is a bit turgid but i suspect under the new leadership it may begin to reflect a more modern pilot workforce.

Wiggy those are frankly pathetic excuses to normalise what has become rank apathy amongst the pilot body as a whole. Name one occasion where senior colleagues have stood up for new entrants? We see reduced terms across the board for new entrants meanwhile those higher up the ladder mainly refuse to take their medicine as well. The I'm alright jack mentality is capitalised on by management at times of recession and unfortunately we have all been guilty of being gullible to the threat of the axe falling. I say this while working for a European "legacy carrier" for past few years and been involved in arguing for improvements within my own union:ok:

New Entrant Contract dispute 2012. Short memory there. All new entrants progress to standard 'legacy' contracts from a basic of 41.5K.

There's always the occasional exception to the rule. Thad I don't know which airline you refer to but did any of the senior colleagues in that airline take a hit at same time or indeed use industrial muscle to ensure new entrant salary remained as per status quo? Just look at the bulk of operators. BA new entrants on extended payscale, Thomson on PPY50 and reduced 7k salary, EZY on their multitude of differing contracts, FR on the pitiful perm contract etc etc...and we haven't even mentioned contractors yet.

This is just bait.


Anyone who is in ezy BALPA knows exactly what's going on. It's all on the BALPA forum/newsletters.


You need to find better things to do in your spare time than attempting to make inflammatory threads.


I can recommend some good dating websites.

I was on the Company Council for several years with a UK regional carrier.
I well remember a conversation with a member who was quite rightly and eloquently buttonholing me on issues that he had strong opinions on. I suggested that he would make a good Company Council member, and why didn't he put himself forward. His reply was priceless: "I'd love to, but I have my career to think about, and I don't want to put my head above the parapet"
Says it all, really.

Exactly.

The rot started in 1999, with JAR. Perhaps you should all be asking yourselves who exactly was responsible for that?

Private Jet
 

Sorry, I don't understand.

Who was responsible for JAR and why would they be responsible for everything that's happened since?

Please enlighten me.

From personal experience of needing BALPA to support me, they proved that they are the most useless, unconvincing, non-pilot supporting, airline management ass kissing pr*cks I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Thank god I stopped paying them a long time ago.
Chuck your £60 a month into a high interest account and pay for a solicitor if you ever need it.

Or http://ALPL.com for £17 a month flat rate rank irrelevant. ! I know people who have used the service and the legal representation has been brilliant, especially the no assessing if your case is financially worth supporting because the costs would not be cost effective to the organisation to recover the legal breach, despite paying years of subs. I was a BALPA member and unfortunately felt I had to leave as I believe the association is trapped in the 70's/80's, I support my local CC they are the ones that do all the work, they work hard, but wish there was a way I could demonstrate this without actually supporting the organisation BALPA, I do not agree with several of their policies and practices, they could do with being catapulted into the 21st century in my personal opinion. I pay the difference between my ALPL subs and what would be Balpa subs to charity, so it's not about money.

I doubt there is any organisation that we might join where we would agree with 100% of the policies or actions of that organisation. Political parties are a prime example of this, we may agree with their stance on the economy but not on Europe, for example. So what do you do if you don't agree? Xollob decided he wanted to leave BALPA, good for him (apologies if you are a lady xollob) but others may decide to stay and try to effect change from within, good for them.

However, it is sad to see a "colleague" being such a coward; creating an Internet name and anonymously coming on a public forum to rant about BALPA, shame on you.

If you can find the terms and conditions from early and late 2003, you'll see how the BALPA CC at EZY sold out before. Notably the £14k gross pay cut to FOs, the loss of two weeks leave, the new £1100 deductions for crew food (the amount of which delivered was reduced by about 50% at the same time), with the CC being promoted to TREs about a month after ratifying the deal without a membership ballot and a 25% payrise for all company TREs another month or so later. Says it all.

Not wanting to cause any distress,

But if you are concerned about your Union now (take a few minutes out to think long and hard about how their power has been diluted since the mid 80s before having a negative pop at your CC) - it may have passed you by, that your govt at its earliest opportunity as a single acting force has very quickly pushed more brilliant stuff through to further weaken the position of the Unions and the working man

With a weakened Union position, and the oncoming EASA FTL changes, you dont need absolute clarity in your crystal ball to anticipate that unfortunately life may not be so rosy for more people than expected.

BAPLA rank and file not cc

Boycott, that is party political rubbish. The reality is that some unions are far too powerful and far to unreasonable, and that is what needed to be curbed. But BALPA was not in that category; it never used what power it had because too many CCs cosied up to their management. That is why it has been kicked out of so many airlines. The CCs (of any union) need to be utterly incorruptible people, and that is often not the case.

Feel free to extend the points made in my Post, firstly outside your own company, then outside the industry. Indeed across all industries in the uk

Reread my post and have a think another about it. I do not dispute your points, not at all, undoubtedly your own points also contribute to the slide in your own company. It all sounds a bit low class to me. But that is the nature in some companies these days unfortunately

About time to stop looking out for just your own little gang.

Divide and conquer. It may be a party political rubbish to one man, but to another it is not exactly a difficult concept to comprehend, but it is exactly why we are all on a downward spiral.

The overall and general direction isnt a good one. If your own company has issues as you stated then that is even worse. And that definately is down to the lack of Union strength and changes to employment laws etc etc .... That started in the mid 80s. Unless that is party political rubbish. But thats as I recall it.

Slight thread creep; I apologise.
It is very sad to hear that anything other than excellence as an instructor/examiner is a route to those positions. In 1980's it was the case that BALPA CC members found their way into management. Poacher turned game-keeper comes to mind. It was also the case then that TRI's & TRE's were called 'management pilots'. I found that offensive and total BS. A good manager is one animal; a good trainer is another. They are rarely the same, but I have known a few, and they were excellent at both. The training dept should be the back bone of standards, philosophy & etiquette. It should have nothing to do with contracts and T's & C's etc. It should be about excellence.
In the 80's it was the case, in UK, that a TRI/TRE position was seen as a stepping stone to higher things. As a result there were some piss poor trainers; more like trappers. I'd thought that in 90's the industry had moved on from that. Being a TRI/TRE is not about an easy pay rise, it is about raising the standards and maintaining them. Teaching is a vocation not a promotion in rank and a pay rise.
Being a hard-nosed savvy CC member prepared to tell BS mangers where to park it is rarely what a calm relaxed trainer is interested in; but that is what a CC member needs to be.
Being a 'management pilot' is a conflict of interest.

except in the 80s you would have been an IRE/TRE:ok:

Rat 5, I couldn't agree more. I'm not anti-union, though I find it a shame we need them. However, my experience of BALPA was awful and very expensive, far more than just the subscription. That might not be representative of all BALPA affiliated CCs, but there have been numerous airlines that left them in recent years, so EZY was far from unique.

Yep, as well as earning more, working less and be looking forward to a decent pension when you retired at 55-60.

For example?

Shuffler, I'm not aware of Balpa being kicked out of any airline so perhaps you'd care to expand on that claim. Your reference to easyjet in 2003 has a degree of truth to it however again you have failed to tell the whole story. That particular company council were pretty much run out of town, replaced democratically by a new CC that has evolved progressively. Democracy can be painful but it must be respected.

As I understand it, BALPA were replaced in Virgin, Astreus and a few others. The FlyBe and BMI members were pretty peeved at BALPA's shoddy efforts when things went TU. I didn't pay a great deal of attention, but then again, nor did you.

The point is that BALPA are expensive and often useless - the members are at the mercy/whim of the CC, some of who may be honest, but some who certainly aren't. As for my comments about 2003, they are 100% factually correct. The one FO on the council was immediately promoted and that the others, all captains, were made TREs. Then the TRE pay rise came. That was all paid for out of all FOs having their bonus scheme scrapped and flight pay cut, as I said for a 5yr FO to the tune of £14kpa. There wasn't even an attempt to hide it, so shameless was the corruption. I know that the council has changed since then, and the three worst have long since left, but in 2014, meeting the BALPA rep at the RPG meeting highlighted how afraid and pathetic BALPA is - they refused to publicly back the RPG at the RPG's request because of fear of a run in with O'Leary. What the hell is the point of a union which is so scared of the management of an airline that has so many of their members? IALPA, on the other hand, seem willing to put up much more of a fight, and it appears the Norwegian unions will too. The French - well, that's were things go too far.

AFAIK Balpa has never been through de-recognition process in any company it represents so far. As for the RPG, much as we should all admire the cause it is actual members they need -not third party cash flow. Balpa tried (and failed) to achieve recognition in RYR twice. I'd suggest it has some experience I that area. If Ialpa were any better at it they would've succeeded themselves. In easyJet you witnessed a renegade CC pulling a stunt in 2003. They were overthrown democratically and replaced with new reps who made significant achievements over the subsequent years. You might want to move on from that. The system worked. It righted a wrong and the new regime went on to made significant progress.

"If you can find the terms and conditions from early and late 2003, you'll see how the BALPA CC at EZY sold out before. Notably the £14k gross pay cut to FOs, the loss of two weeks leave, the new £1100 deductions for crew food (the amount of which delivered was reduced by about 50% at the same time."

That crew food is subsidized by flight deck has been ignored by both the Company and the CC at all subsequent discussions. This £1100 pay raid is thought of as a myth by most Crewmembers in easy.

BALPA lost my money as a result.

Don't we just love threads about BALPA?!!

Rarely are they objective, and usually descend into chucking mud at each other.

The managers at these airlines must delight in these sort of antics: pilots against pilots.

What is sad is the degree of 'I'm alright jack' that is the essence of why unions are sometimes totally ineffectual. We are supposed to stand together. The truth is that (in the UK) we rarely do. It is always something that happens to that other poor sod - so why should I care ......... until it happens to you.

I applaud the OP for being brave enough to speak out on the open forum, without the pro-BALPA scrutiny of the private easyJet forum. He is not ranting, as has been suggested, he is stating his opinion.

As for CC members not responding to emails, then that, if true, is completely disgraceful.

Do they similarly ignore emails from the company? I very much doubt it.

Love or hate BALPA, they need to change. It is important to have effective dialogue with the employers, but they need to spend more time listening to the members. BALPA IS the membership.

Footnote: late pay deal AGAIN this year: Fact.

F&B

The main problem is that "BALPA" and the "CC" are only as strong as the support they get from the members. In any airline, how many pilots would take industrial action over a pay deal? Would you go on strike if offered only 2% rise? Would you go on strike if the company said their final offer was a reduction in new pilots pay, to save the pay of the existing pilots? Many pilots would not go on strike for this. Often the issues that the companies stir up only affect part of the pilot population. The company ultimately can do what they like. If the pilots go to a vote, in most cases, around 50% can't be bothered as it doesn't make much difference to them, about 30% probably don't even vote, and the rest sre probably those who have strong views. Ultimately, what company CC is going to try and call a vote when only 20% of the workforce are even likely to consider going on strike?
It takes something major to really rile pilots and make them strong enough to strike.

What else can the CC do to "make" the company change its mind over terms and conditions?

It is a bit like fatigue reporting though isn't it? It is a legal requirement for pilots to submit an MOR if they fall asleep on the flight deck, even a micro sleep. Last year the CAA received 3 reports.

BALPA is only as good as its members.