Thanks Boeing Operator:ok:

What I wanted to know was if the RCA's were there to:
- keep the seat warm during cruise, or
- get WB/LH experience quickly and upgrade to the full CA...

Seems it's the latter...

@donpizmeov2

You normally have 24 hours on all trips. That is, check-in on a Monday LGW-LAX, 24 hours stop (effectively like 20 hours in the hotel), flight back normally to Scandinavia and position to LGW on short haul same afternoon. 20 block hours in three working days.

Some trips have two nights' stop, rarely three nights.


@C_Star

RCA is a full captain in long haul. No difference in training or so. However, you are appointed as RCA. You sit in the LHS only above 20,000 ft, otherwise you function as a FO. The one that needs the landing is PF, so the RCA is not only the third guy. When you upgrade to "real" CPT, it's only a quick refresher.

@B O

How about the upgrade process from RCA to CA, are there any interviews/assesments/command boards etc. involved, or is it 'automatic', based on experience and seniority?

@donpizmeov2

Sometimes when you get to Scandinavia, you have one night there, go back to the US for another night and then back to LGW. 40 block hours in six days work.

Yes, minimum 8 days off per month, but in reality more. You do the math...

@C Star

They have started an internal selection process. Technical test and interview, and last OPC good and references from company trainers and checkers.

Thanks for the insight B O!:ok:

Thanks for the perfect infos bo

9000 euros for a captain is not a bad salary to be in Europe, forget about major carriers, they will and have to change as well
This is including all allowances and before or after tax?

The hotel situation you talked about am not happy with that, hope they change that

Roster changes you have everywhere, especially on cargo

The Ad says operational base Gatwick on UK employment contract. Not Bangkok or Dar es Salaam !

There must be tax saving initiatives with this way of employment. for Norwegian , not you.

Its a great initiative from the company. Train an experienced guy onto the 787 then ask him to put up €30000 , incase he bails out after realising that those tax saving initiatives are illegal and take home pay is now under £4000 !

Yep its a bummer but where else to go for old guys marooned in the desert or stuck in the pollution?

Well sounds familiar saw and seeing both

What you can do

Nothing nothing at all

9000Euro for a captain is not bad? Wtf......

£6500 gross before tax for a wide body captain operating global etops long haul with a rating he's had to stump up Eur30k as a bond for - with no job security, no pension, no Ni and 25 days leave.

This industry is on its arse.......

Yep, I ran that through a take home pay calculator. Basic tax code of ten grand and called it 78k pa. A take home of £4380 plus about 500-600 on per diem after that's taxed if you're lucky. No pension paid so you'd have to take a fairly sizable chunk out of that to make up lack of company pension with a private fund. Say you wipe off 500 quid towards a pension. That leaves you with £3880 in your pocket plus the per diems.



Oh and 25 days leave of course. For a long haul Captain rewarded by crappy hotels and min rest night stops.

i know, what are you talking about, believe me

especially what chinafly said

but there are no options in europe (they know that), only sandpit or lovely china, where they offer you 20000 dollars on 320 why hmmmmm

so guys, what you want to do? sandpit, china, or better stay in europe??

everybody has its own priorities, but believe me and i say again i saw both, and both is horrible, for a couple of years yes, but not for long

the golden times of aviation are over, yes still you can earn very good money, especially in china, but living there is another story, sandpit money wise the same except it got quite expensive

What seriously insulting package. Unless you have no other option to put food in the table, why would you lower yourself, and the industry, by taking it?

Many other options for Europe, mainly commuting contracts, but at least with those you will get a decent stretch at home and not a minimum of 8 days (no matter what extra crumbs they throw at you) off per month.

That Korean job is starting to look attractive. and says alot about this Norwegian
nonsense

As stated before, a long term employee of the desert rat brigade, who has a couple of million in his bank can take it.

Its a steal , for Norwegian ;)

FYI: LGW based SH captains are on 2000euros more per month (gross) then the LH captains.

Says a lot about the company.

Oh and Sh guys also have a union and 12 days off per month and shortly a Lol.

A small correction to you guys, it's 28 days of leave and not 25 days.

That doesn't change the pay.

However, it's quite simple. Go for the options or accept it. I believe the deal will change soon. They're loosing guys all the time and short haul has a better deal as someone wrote here. They will need to improve. There is a talk about a union as well.

"Oh and Sh guys also have a union" - "There is talk about a union"

Doesn't the LGW based, agency contract contain the clause "no claim as employee of the airline" - or similar?
Such a clause would prevent the formation of a legally recognized union as there is no direct employment relationship between the pilots and Norwegian.
If you recall, the main reason for the recent strike was for Norwegian to be the named employer, with whom a "union" has legally binding, collective bargaining rights.
Perhaps the term "pilot association" is more applicable (with no legal rights whatsoever).

Norwegian pilots please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought LGW based SH pilots have voted for Union recognition with BALPA and OSM have accepted this position......

The union intention I believe is to get a recognition agreement signed by OSM by June.

@ nosmo king, that is my understanding as well.

So which what wide body Captain is going to apply?

Obviously no one from european legacy carriers, unless final salary pensioned retirees eg BA.

No one from 2nd tier european seniority based carriers, as it takes years to obtain a wide body command Eg Midland , Condor Tui etc

The money is similar to that paid at Turkish , which operates with EASA licensed captains.

There are however hundreds of wide body skippers employed by asian and middle eastern carriers who are financially independent , but who are not ready for full retirement.

EK , CX SQ have many such pilots , globally experienced guys, who's kids have left home, no mortgage, have substantial income from investments but who need a change.

Norwegian are trying to tap this little utilised pilot pool.
Most captains in this position are not unionised, are use to being employed as a contractor and have proven themselves as self sufficient employees, without a nanny union to run to when the company plays hard ball.

While not condoning Norwegian , direct entry european jobs
recognising none type rated pilots are few and far between and will never pay more than a bare bones salary from what was on offer 10-15 years ago.

Except at THY you will retain 95% of the Gross, at NAS LGW base around 52% ... Try renting a decent house/ flat near Gatwick for less than £1200 a month plus bills..as mentioned if you are retired on a FSP then it will work, or a young skipper with jet time, chomping to get a wide body command within 2/3 years. Another issue is security, with no "permanent contract" it is difficult to get mortgages and thus settle into a normal family life.. horses for courses!

highfive

Hate to mess up the recruiting plan but I think you need to change your airline post the "e.g.", seeing as at BA they no longer have a CRA of 55.

I think for Norwegian this model will work incredibly well. They are a training airline who will produce the LH pilots required by middle eastern and Asian companies. I'm sure they can count on new Captains to stay for a minimum of 500 hours. They then take from the bond and therefore produce an income.

The advert states an operational base of Gatwick, but you dont have to live in the UK, which would allow a significant tax advantage , depending on an employees position, residency and past or present ties to the UK.

Some LGW based pilots may be under the delusion union representation with their employer agency will ensure and protect any labour “rights” they believe they may have with Norwegian – wrong.
Remember, there are two very separate contracts: 1. Pilots with the agency, and 2. Norwegian with the agency to supply the pilots. Any recognition and collective union agreement between LGW based pilots and their employer agency, is not legally binding with Norwegian under the UK Trade Union and Labour Relations Act 1992, why? - because Norwegian is not the employer.
Before handing over union dues, I suggest pilots determine exactly what they hope to achieve by union representation with their employer agency that is legally binding with Norwegian. Furthermore, if you signed your agency contract that includes the “choice of law” as anything other than in the UK, you do not even have the right to an Employment Tribunal for any grievance you may have with your employer agency (union representation with the agency or not).
Once again, one of the main reasons for the recent strike was to have Norwegian as the named employer. Apparently, some of you do not appreciate the importance of this as it relates to UK and European employment/labour laws.
When the President of ALPA said that the use of agencies permitted the circumvention of labour laws, this is the type of scheme he referred to.
Note: DN Norway news reported today that PARAT filed a lawsuit this week against Norwegian, for the courts to rule that Norwegian is the real employer of the pilots. Link: Parat saksøker Norwegian - DN.no

If your duties start in the UK you will be liable to UK tax and to avoid this you have to be outside the UK for more than 181 days a year and your duties would have to start elsewhere. With this LGW based contract it is impossible to avoid UK tax, ok if you live in Europe you may get a marginal advantage but most of Europe had a dual tax agreement with the UK do its just an offset and in some ways the UK can be cheaper overall especially with medical costs etc. Either way there's no way out of the tax burden . Living outside Europe and attempting a commute would cost more than the tax bill in flights and Hotels

I hope no one takes the above to reflect the actual situation regarding taxation.

So, what's the actual situation re. taxation?

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...05/rdr3_1_.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...25/rdr4_1_.pdf

Obviously, the situation in the individual's country of residence will affect their overall liability.

Shanwick, perhaps you would like to give us the benefit of your take on the position rather than refer us to an overseas work allowance that is not appropriate to a Uk based contract where all the duties start and finish from a UK base? agreed, the IR have a habit of making things complicated with phrases such as " non domicile" etc etc, but this LGW contract is a clear cut case, unless you can advise us otherwise?
as previously stated

Bottom line, not the renumeration package any self respecting Wide Body Capt would have expected up to now . . . . . and going forward ? well, the "market" (I.E how feckin dumb are we pilots :ugh: ) will set the new standards. Sign up for what you wish in the future, Congrats := :D

Low cost long haul pilots with ridiculous T&Cs, it was predictable!!!

Avenger

There are many pilots working for UK based airlines with UK based contracts but resident in another country doing just that. As every case is individual I could not begin to advise on every possibility.

I suggest you contact a specialist such as The Fry Group - Tax & Financial Planning for UK Residents & Expatriates. They have considerable experience in the field and could give you accurate and personalised advice.

Change of terms
 

LGW based haul pilots will, as of now, have their salaries paid in GBP. There will be a fixed exchange rate of 0.83 (approx £1:€1.2)

Similar to what was offered to the 737 guys employed in LGW through OSM. Certainly softens the blow slightly, and a useful little "bonus" to anyone based in LGW but living in €-land.

I believe the offer is the same amount, but a minimum amount of GBP guaranteed by setting a bottom-line exchange rate.

If (unlikely as it seems ) the € recovers that prevents a loss in the other direction for those whose life is conducted in € currency.

Paying Tax
 

Hi Guys
If you are based in LGW and you commute, will you be able to pay tax elsewhere or Norwegian deduct UK tax automatically for LGW pilots?

:ok:

Very low terms and conditions in NLH: low pay,bad planned roster, cheap hotels.
Everybody is complaining , there are no trainers and it takes for ever to complete any training.
Hainan is receiving plenty of applications from NLH pilots.

Email through today after being ignored for over 8 months. We invite you to resubmit your application including cover letter etc.

I'm ok thanks.

The NLH contract was drawn up with a BKK base in mind.

I have no idea whether it's competitive with other contracts drawn up in BKK (the airline would presumably say "Yes"!) but if the airline then tries to entice you onto the same deal by notionally recruiting you for a LGW base it's hardly surprising its not competitive in Euroland!

It doesn't matter whether you're paid in GBP, EUR or bananas, this is pure off-shoring and I hope the Norwegian Governments' appeal to the EU gets the whole matter clarified, and ultimately, knocked on the head. In addition, I trust the US DOT also continue to dig in...

By all means, sign up, but the subsequent pain is all self-inflicted.