LOL. Where the hell are you getting 3500 from? (this has been my average take home from the past 13 months) You are seriously deluded!

Captain salary with Wizz approx £3500 UK pounds, that was what Frogge used as CURRENCY!

Which 4500 Euros a month! Base pay CPT is 40.000 Euros / 12 = 3333 Euros a month + sector pay.

So who is deluded now?
And for first 6 months after upgrade base pay is reduced, believe it is to 35.000 Euros. So Captain pay can probably be less then 4500 Euros a month too in the start, so all happy days.

I guess you are still very deluded! :ugh:

Actually I meant euros because thats the currency FR pays and I would imagine Wizz aswell. And that 9k(euro) is with the sector pay and allowance included! So if u take that and taxes into account I don't think the difference would be as big as you are insisting.

Ok double instead of treble!

I still think Captain pay of around 4500 Euros a month is appalling!

EU is supposed to be one market, or as we can see there are 2 tiers! Fact is in the numbers!

Not talking about the people, talking about the economics! So why does not all the big companies just outsource to these low paying countries, and then we will have all happy days all over the continent?

Guys,
I would like to know how many years are needed to get the CPT upgrade from an experienced FO starting from 0 hours on the A320. I have passed the screening but I am flying the Jumbo in Asia with a good contract but I would jump on the left seat, because here takes a long time.


Thanks :ok:

An average WZZ CPT in my base in PL takes home around 5.5K-6K in euro per month after tax, social and pension and including sectors. So it's a third less than Ryanair, and that's obviously !!!!e. Couldn't agree more.

But don't come moaning to me about eastern Europe. If you don't like it, just go back. Nobody is forcing you to be here. The fact is that the same regulations that allow us to work here are the same regulations forcing the wages down.

Simple as.

If a wizz cpt takes home 6k/month(euro) that is equal or even more that a RYR cpt gets paid! I say it again, 9000euro minus 40% tax leaves you with 5400 euro/month! I think that wizz and ryr are pretty much in the same boat! As an FO I don't see much future in either one.

Reg. RyR, if you have a limited company, you pay 21% tax on dividends.

Also deductions before tax etc. 145Euros x 750 hours a year = 9000 Euros a month before tax.

Wizz Captain, base pay 3333 Euros a month, and 1800 Euros sector pay, so total 5100 Euros a month before tax.

On this approx. 21% tax.

Also depends how good accountant you have, tax can be reduced, if your pre tax pay is high.

Nowadays only RYR contracts available for new commanders, so no self employment, thus normal employee tax rates.

At 20% (the standard rate):

• the first €32,800, for individuals without dependent children
• the first €36,800, for single or widowed persons qualifying for the One-Parent Family tax credit
• the first €41,800, for married couples.

The balance of income is taxed at 41%

After this you still need to deduct social charges (USC) and social insurance (PRSI).

A :mad: LOAD OF TAXES!

I have to say though that there is several different contracts within RYR, but I'm now talking about what is offered to current command upgraders and what I would most likely be offered in a few years

If proper contracts like this, you will at least have holidays, sick days and pension? (Frogge)

This at Wizz would be negligent if any at all!

Dude honestly, what are you talking about? Are we working for the same company? I'm on a Polish contract. I have Holidays, sick pay and I pay contributions for a pension in Poland. This admittedly is :mad: but it is there and considering that I am a resident of the Netherlands these working years get counted in NL towards my dutch state pension, as per EU regulation. My taxes are also paid, in Switzerland. Fully compliant with double taxation treaties. It is not my fault nor that of WZZ that the EU allows this kind of practice within its member states. Each year that I have worked here I have filed a full tax declaration with the authorities in the Netherlands and never had an issue.


I'm not saying that what I have is good, far from it and I am far from satisfied, but get a grip already. I was out there today and asked my direct colleague, an English bloke by the way, what he actually takes home every month. He says there are better and worse months, but on average around 25000ZL. This comes down to 5.5-6.0K per month in Euro, after all is paid and deducted and factored for the variation in FOREX on the zloty. I understand you are based in VNO and that local contract is significantly worse, but there are quite a few contracts in this place with very different take-home's at the end of the month. Again, not saying it's great because it really isn't, but please get your facts right.

And what do you do to improve your situation ? Have you joined a union ? Do you invest time in defending your T&Cs, one way or another, instead of waiting for the sun to come out, if that's God's will ???

You know as well as I know that due to the structure of this company, and others, and the way that they are allowed to be incorporated within this European Union of ours it makes it extremely difficult for single staff to make any difference. Management knows that and has purposefully set the company up in this way. Just like yours has if you are in FR. In my previous airline I was indeed member of the union. It is much simpler when you are based in one base, in one country with one group of pilots. That being said, I came here voluntarily (whilst having other options) and don't regret my decision as I always knew what it would mean. I had personal reasons for doing so.

In the mean time, I try not to do anyone any favors without getting compensated really well for it and it works quite nicely for me. On the short term I should be leaving for an airline in Asia, because sadly it does appear that the only way to vote is with your feet in the current aviation climate. What I certainly am not doing though, is accepting a job whilst fully knowing all it's consequences and then coming on here berating the country where I am based. Or neglecting my own responsibility when it comes to the contract conditions that I, and all of us here, accepted. So what am I doing? It appears that certainly a lot more than most on here.

We can certainly discuss terms and conditions, the things that could and should improve or are otherwise neglected by my employer. But let's be grown up about it and read into the material at hand first before starting some sort of discussion. It would certainly reflect better on some of the more junior colleagues here and would increase the probability of me, but more importantly the company, taking their complaints and grievances to heart.

I am not at FR anymore and that for a looong time !! I quit that slaughterhouse, sick and tired of their behaviour. I'm not one to put up with that cr@p.

The fact the structure was adapted is one thing. But nothing prevents from working around the rules. Just get the right lawyers working on it and they'll find. That cannot be achieved out a personal endeavour. There are ways and solutions.

I am not VNO based, my base is not important either Dr!

40000/12 + 30 sectors x 60 Euros is a good average to work on. If you can get that to come to 5500 - 6000 Euros a month after tax, well that is interesting maths!

You have of course the 5% increase after every 1000 hours for more senior Captains!

Busdriver you are a complete idiot hahahaha :mad::ugh:lier lier pants on fire

Whatever!

The figures I presented are correct, that is the base of the Captain salary!

I love the Wizz HR witch hunt of the guessing game, who who who!

Yes that is another special perk this company provides, they don't like people with opinions that cross their East European leadership / management style, which belong to another century!
Rule with an iron fist and report each individual to big brother, a company that loves to self promote how successful they are, with one after the other unknown Hungarian business awards!
When the fact their success is built on a very fragile foundation, which was proven when they was not able to float on the stock market earlier this year!

Eastern european management style eh? CEO HU, EVP UK, COO NL, DFO UK, FLT OPS MGRS: DE, PL, HU. Yeah mate, I really feel behind the iron curtain here. I'll be the last to say that there isn't plenty to improve in this company, there really is. But you are just stirring, misinforming, spewing and even insulting the same peoples and cultures that offered you a job to begin with, calling them racist no less. I am just a lowly FO like you sir and like you I am not from here, but you strike me as a particularly pedantic drama queen. Get over yourself and present facts when you are in a debate, because trust me nobody that I know from the aforementioned MGMT people has the inclination, time nor energy to care about who you are. Even if you would like to feel important. A lot of fun you must be in the flightdeck :}.

Furthermore there is nothing wrong with my mathematics.
(40.000 x 1,05^(2))/12 + at least 40 sectors x 60 = 6075 = 25685 PLN at todays rate.
(40.000 x 1,05^(2))/12 + at most 60 sectors x 60 = 7275 = 30759 PLN at todays rate.

This is for a captain that has flown 2000 hours in the LHS, before tax and pension/social security. Considering that we realistically fly plenty more than 40 every month, I'd say my colleague was not just right, but right on the money. And this is with the numbers that you provided, I don't know the exact numbers that he has in his contract. It is a poor salary for the job, that thing is for certain in my mind. I will allow you to interpolate for seasonality yourself as I honestly can't be bothered, suffice to say that our season lasts around 8 months.

As a last thing to note, it is no big secret who I am. Anyone with any time in this firm that lurks this forum can easily guess it. Despite the fact that I have been critical about this company in the past and in the present, I have never heard anything and nobody has been trying to intimidate me at any point. As I said, I think we work for different companies!

I have no idea what you are calculating.

40.000 eur basic per year
60 x 12 x 60 EUR per sector = 43200 EUR per year

total 83200 per year = 6933 gross per month before tax.

If you take home about 6000 you should count yourself very lucky. But I hope the tax authority won't come knocking on your door.

In the Netherlands you would need 130.000 gross a year to make a similar salary. Which happens to be the Capt salary in easyJet Amsterdam.

It is pretty obvious you have no idea what I am calculating. It was a particular example from a CPT that I know personally and professionally, with 2000 hours in the LHS. Every 1000 hours the basic salary increases by 5 percent, that's why the 40.000 x 1,05^(2) in his case. What they end up with is between 5.5K and 6K depending on the month, the amount flown, any extra sector payments, etc. It's basic arithmetic, I suppose if you would have taken the time to gather the information you would have come to the same conclusion.

The social and pension is paid in Poland, the tax in Switzerland. In my case as First Officer, I make full tax declarations every year in the Netherlands and have had zero issues with it for three years now and take home between 3K and 3.3K depending on all the variables. I don't like it either, but it seems that this is fully legal within the European union. Whether it should or should not be is a different story, but this is how it's structured. I am fully aware of what you need to earn in the Netherlands for the same net salary and it is precisely the reason why EZY AMS is totally not interesting as it would provide no improvement at all.

Yeah but you won't actually fly 720 sectors a year.... so the sector pay in my previous calc is vastly exaggerated. Lets go for the industry standard in loco of about 450 sectors a year.

So he'll make 44100 basic
450x 60 = 27000 sector

71100 a year = 5925 a month before tax.

Cut the BS, either no tax is being paid or ur friend is overstating his take-home (which happens quite a bit with pilots I have noticed)

Again, it was factored for what you are saying. The highest amount before tax and social was mentioned, as was the lowest amount. So the gross numbers are correct and I have no reason to doubt that he will take home 5.5K or something similar. And mind you there are captains with a lot more hours in the LHS and a higher basic. It was also mentioned that I was calculating with the numbers the previous poster provided, and clearly not with the numbers that my mate has in his contract. So let's stop going in circles here.

1. There is no average of 60 sectors a month!
2. I doubt average will be as high as 40 - 60 sectors a month, unless you in Gdansk
3. Average over 12 months would be 30 - 36 sectors, low and high months.

4. If you taking home 3.000 - 3.300 Euros a month FO pay, then you are not paying a Cent in taxes!
You might think you don't have any problems at present moment, but if you had some connections with various unions you would quickly find out why you are momentarily left in peace. But this will not last forever.
Mention Union in Wizz, and you will be fired out before you can even spell the word Union!

5. I did not say people in general was racist within Wizz itself. Besides the one story about the funny Indian FO on flight IX-812, who because of his funny accents was to blame for not being assertive enough, and flew the aircraft in the ground in Mangalore.

Or the SCA on OTP to TLV flight, complained that Hitler should have done a better job.

Or the CPT from Poland, who believed Sweden was a terrible place to move to, because they would take away your children and give them to gay couples.

Or the CPT who saw and FO approaching the A320, and exclaimed, but he is black!!!!



In my world that is racism, but then again I am not a great Putin fan either, so depends what flavours you prefer!

Or dark skinned pilots, being told to go back home to their own country, or being refused to rent apartment by land-lord when they saw these pilots! Or not being served drinks in the local bars! Or being refused entry to bars/clubs!

I admit the above does not represent the majority, but it does exist! And much more then it would happen in Amsterdam, Paris or London!

Sure this is normal! Good to know!

But hey, who cares, as long as we get our hours and can fly on! :}

I know plenty LHS guys, great guys, but on 12 month average they rarely take home more then 4500 - 5000 Euros, and that is with a dodgy taxation system, that company itself can not even explain to you when you start asking them questions.

TAXATION from Geneva: (From the horses mouth itself)

From a Swiss tax point of view the relation between Confair and WizzAir is typical for body leasing. WizzAir is considered the economic employer of Mr. X, The relation is treated as an employment because Mr. X (1) works exclusively for WizzAir, (2) is fully integrated in the organization of WizzAir, and (3) takes directions from WizzAir.

A Swiss economic employer is required to remit salary tax if the employee is resident outside of Switzerland. Normally, an employee who does not physically work in Switzerland is not taxed in Switzerland.

There is only 1 base that fly 450 sectors or more and it is GDN. In other bases they fly between 350 and 400.

Who was talking about confair. Sigh.

99% of new Captains are forced on to Confair contract! With very few exceptions. Part of the new package deal, pay less, fly more!

It's economically very efficient!

Exactely, like 8% gone and 11 months contract.. :=

Oh come on drfaust stop the crap.

Lets take a 10k hrs in LHS captain then, cause they are clearly the majority of captains in Wizz:ugh:

Basic 65155
Sector (450 a year) 27000

total 92155

7679 per month

Still a challenge to take home 6k on that salary in most normal tax regimes.

Basic arithmetics and basic social security and income taxes don't match your story faust.

This is all very interesting but the fact remains that at a recruitment day recently there were 100's pilots queuing through the hotel. This doesn't include the vast number joining from Lot / Eurolot just for the Polish bases alone nor the online applications.

There are lots of (mainly expats) leaving for other operators that is causing some problems for next year's staffing levels, so if you don't like the terms that Wizz offer then don't join, but if you do then go in with your eyes open.

You'll fly to max all year round (myself 892 hours: 510 sectors), rostering and scheduling will take precedence over your commuting, especially when there's a shortage of crew, the salary is a lot less than other operators, and some pilots have been told to sign a new (agency) contract with worse terms or else...

But, if you don't have a job, or want a short time to upgrade, or want to be based in your home country then Wizz are still a very good option.

BusAirDriver!

If the money is bad, racism and antisemitism is all around, management is oppressive Soviet style, the pilots are not really pleasant, and if you mention UNION, you will be fired, I just have one question to ask:

Why are you still working here? Give me one reason, and I will be the happiest person on the face of the Earth.

About the salary:

Either you fly a lot of short sectors, or longer ones which pay more. The compensation is OK for captains, not so for the FOs. (20% extra for sectors above 2hrs, 40% for 2:30+ for PIC, 10 and 20 for the FOs) The average of my last 5 months were around 6200 EUR after taxes, with more than 2000hrs WZZ PIC time.

Nobody is forced on a Confair contract, but almost everybody chooses it as apart from the income tax, you pay all the rest wherever you want. (which is deducted in case of local contract)

I had a selection scheduled for Easy in AMS, but after a quick calculation of the salary, I declined, as it would have been more or less the same...

seventhreedriver;

Ok you claim you have 6200 Euros net after tax, with 2000 hours PIC Wizz.

So this means base pay 44.000 Euros a year, and lets use 72 Euros a sector with the 20%. And lets assume around 20 % in taxes. So taxes would be around 1400 Euros a month. So this means before tax you get around 7600 Euros. Base pay is 3666 Euros a month,

That gives you an average of 55 sectors a month at the medium range sectors.

Doing 55 sectors on average is pretty impressive, 20% in tax is a very low tax rate, and is realistic.
To do 55 sectors a month you would not be mostly on the short sector pay of 60 Euro per sector. That would be 65 short sectors a month to make 6200 Euros a month after tax.

Of course you could be one of the new DEC that they promised 8500 Euros a month. :D

And your reason being?

On a local contract, which means not confair, you are liable for tax in Switzerland and social premiums and pension in the local country (in the case of my examples: Poland). This means that as a CPT with 2K hours in the LHS you can take home 5.5-6K on average. If you reject the construction of income tax paid 'at source' (which is very low if you take into consideration how income tax is dealt with in CH), then it makes no sense to discuss any further as we would be debating different things. My social premiums and pension are a higher percentage of my gross salary than my income tax. That's how the bloody thing is set up and the tax man in the Netherlands sure has no problem with it considering the double taxation treaty that NL and CH enjoy. Should this tax dodging and social dumping be allowed for companies to do? No in my opinion, no way. But the fact is that the way it is at the moment, the only country that has protested such employment practices has been France with the case of FR cabin crew (IIRC) being based in France whilst on Irish employment contracts.


You have captains coming on here telling you what they are making on a local contract. What more do you want, really?

You are liable to taxes to the country you have residency!

I have that in writing from Swiss tax authorities, copied in a previous post.

Of course what you decide to do and believe in is up to each person. If it was so easy, was does not BA, Lufthansa and all the others do the same?

Better read the NL-CH dta again then faust. Bet you don't have a single tax declaration definitive.

Each and every country has different taxation. One says you have to only pay taxes as aircrew in the country where the company is based (based meaning all business decision is made, which in case of WZZ is Switzerland). Others base the taxes on residency. A good accountant is a must.

As for my taxes, as I am married, I have to pay around 8% income tax.

The social security contribution in the EU is based on the residency. It also depends on the country, how it is calculated, and how much should be paid.

737Jock:

I think his residence is Poland, which, like Hungary, exempts the income taxed in Switzerland from further taxation.

Netherlands / Switzerland different story = tax at source is 0% and all must be paid in Holland.

Local contract or Confair is not up to the employee - it is decided by the company in most cases depending on your base. In rare cases you have a choice.