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FLR,
A great post. |
FLR , you re right, I don't understand your point. In the uk and particularly the SE, for airlines that have recently recruited why would "many people would be better suited elsewhere" ? Which are these airlines ?
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FLR
Many people outside of BA don't completely understand the remuneration package, nor the associated lifestyle options available. That's entirely understandable. An important point to make is that very many BA pilots choose not to live in the SE of England (many don't even live in the UK!) though of course our job is based there. Combined with the excellent staff travel package, fleet choices, and our worldwide network, the lifestyle and tax options are virtually limitless! I cannot believe anybody looking at forty plus years of four sector days could view such a prospect as anything other than a stepping stone. For that reason alone, the opportunities BA offer are ABSOLUTELY head and shoulders above anything else in the UK. The pilot retention figures are staggering for a reason! The only caveat I would add, is that it does depend on one's age, and how much time one has 'invested' in another airline. Also, if you are happy to work in the desert/far east for bosses of a different culture, then by all means fill your boots. You'll earn the money. |
FLR Got to say I agree with others. Prior to coming here I looked at the finances and was expecting to see quite a large cut in net take home (was a 6yr SFO in a larger charter company before hand). Quite the opposite has happened and compared to the charter airlines' summer, I'm working a whole lot less on average. I've already racked up the retail equivalent of £15K in flights...and have had nothing less than club/first to date. ST is amazing. Long may it continue. I can easily see how it's worth upwards of £50K per year if you're in to travelling the globe in comfort. Fair point though, other airlines have some great offers. My previous company offered part year working for only a small cut in salary which was excellent. It was a hard decision to leave (I initially forced a pessimistic view of BA's Ts & Cs on myself to be absolutely sure) but having been here this long, it's clear it was a good decision. Gutted for those who joined after PP34 and after 450 seniority numbers, and even more so for those waiting in the pool. I hope the recruiters manage to keep the holdpoolers longer than 18 months. |
Fair enough. Thanks for everyone's thoughts. It is never a black and white issue with things like this.
Merry Christmas to everyone. |
Just to link this to the BA pilot volountary redundancies: The terms of those redundancy payouts would require no pilot being taken on prior to Oct 2013, in order for the payments to make sense. Frankly that will be a struggle, because we have no overall surplus of heads at the moment, we just have people sitting in the wrong seats!!
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Two questions for Full Left Rudder:
1. How many pilots have voluntarily left EZY in the last 10 years to join BA? 2. How many pilots have voluntarily left BA in the last 10 years to join EZY? |
1. Lots
2. Not many But I am talking about now, not the past. If we could jump on 10 years from now and then re-ask these questions I suspect the chasm would be considerably smaller. I say this in light of the new 34 point pay scale, being shoved behind a bulge of some 400 odd places in the seniority list by the BMI deal, the increased workload recently imposed on BA pilots, the unfortunate position of now bring tied at the hip with a money pit of an airline in the form of Iberia etc. Again, BA is still a good prospect. But not leaps and bounds ahead of the rest anymore for people considering joining the company. |
Fifteen years ago I did the sums. I was a Captain in a regional airline owned by KLM. After lots of deliberation I accepted the job with BA and joined on the 777. I thought I would take a pay cut to move but was pleasantly surprised to see that, with all the extra bits and pieces, I was soon taking home more than I had done previously. After five years I took a command on the 737. Big pay rise and fun flying. After a couple of years of that my circumstances changed and I moved abroad. When my 737 freeze expired I thought what now? How about the jumbo. Back to the RHS and a small pay cut but now quite senior. Cape Town and Hong Kong every month. Fantastic. Four years later. Bored with the RHS. How about go part time and get a command on the Airbus. Huge network, loads of interesting nightstops or shorter day trips if preferred.
That is one of the beauties of BA. so many opportunities. Whatever you want to do, long haul, short haul, management, training, full time, part time. Live anywhere in the world, it's all available. |
being shoved behind a bulge of some 400 odd places in the seniority list by the BMI deal, |
If you are talking about the collective combination of the bmi pilots and new DEP joiners you are possibly talking about 400 places on the seniority list since time of application and stage one assessment. Plus a move from PP24 to PP34 in this time. Recollecting the recruiters buzz phrases of 'seniority is everything in BA' and 'seniority equals lifestyle,' I can understand where FLR is coming from. Not that it matters now for those in the pool anyway.
Happy Xmas to all my fellow swimmers. :ok: |
The latest info to come from company management suggests that the 90+ FPP's that will join BA from Q3 2013 through 2014 will provide all new entrants for this period. Following this, the 70 or so additional FPP's that are about to be selected will start joining the airline from early 2015 onwards. It is envisaged that these recruits will make up approximately 50% of the new entrants, with the remainder to come from DEP. Therefore as things currently stand recruitment for DEP's will re-commence late 2014 at the very earliest.
Beyond 2015 retirements will begin to pick up, and there is also the expected growth in LH hulls. With any luck this will be the time when recruitment really starts to kick in. |
Full left rudder: with the assumption you make captain in 5 years at EZY |
Everyone should know that BA is not some oasis, but I'm struggling with where all of these people think is so much better in 2012.
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Well, I don't think EZY will stick with 200 airframe. The expansion may have stop for now but unlike BA,AF,LH, easy has the potential to double its size. Ryanair has over 300 planes and I think ezy will match at least that.
20 years to command would mean ezy has financial problems which is quite the opposite right now. 10 years is Unrealistic. Unlike BA, easy has no seniority system. If you join has an experienced FO with enough hours you can join the queue for command straight away. If you join as a cadet it will take at least 4-5 years before having the hours to join the queue. So if you were referring to cadets, yes, it may get close to 10 years for now, but 7-8 more likely. How many FO's are in BA? How many FO's eligible for command are in EZY? You will find more people's leaving than the national career and still some retiring. Anyway, both are different but excellent airlines to work for. I would personally choose BA as a cadet and easy as an experienced FO, but hey, we are all different :rolleyes: All the best for 2013 :ok: |
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