A320 command or Emirates f/o
 

hey there, i am a F/o on A320 with close to 2800 hrs on type, age 27, to be upgraded on the 320 in couple of months and now caught up in a situation of luxuries of sorts;) as i have recently cracked the EK process. i know there cannot be any right or wrong decision, and ultimately depends on me, but need u guys to throw some light on the matter which will decide my career trajectory.

Money is not an issue as it will be the same for a 320 capt or EK f/o, few considerations are that i love to fly 2-4 hr sectors on 320 and getting command on this is very exciting:cool: and personally i might find long-haul flying less enjoyable:bored: but widebody/international experience would definitely count:p:p. need some views on this.
Moreover im not sure of life in sandpit:*. if i decide to move on then returning back home in few years is not an option as goal will be to be a wide body capt some 5-6 years down the line. and to be a co-pilot for so long might just get on me...:ugh:

My personal inclination is to take the command as it is on offer, and then forget EK for gud:confused::confused: but MOST of my seniors advise me to go for EK as it is d best and they advise me that in the long run i wont regret, and i have 30+ yrs to fly if all goes well.
your views fellas...:confused:

Get a few hours on the 320 at IGO as PIC then try and join EK or QR as a DEC, you will get to jump the Q within the airline then.

This won't be a popular answer on here, but that's what I would do if I were you.

this will take 1 year being optimistic, in that case Ek is out of question, they wont call me back..

Have you done the interview and been offered a job at EK yet?

If not, they won't mind and you will be submitting a fresh application as a DEC.

If not there are other airlines in the gulf (if that is where you want to work)

But get PIC time on the bus (try and get the type on a license other than an Indian one) and your good to go in the contract world.

Affirm....

Upto you then really....

You will get more takeoffs and landings at EK as a FO than you did at IGO!

:E

well, how stable is your current employer?
are you flying for a charter gig that may dissolve shortly or are you at klm?
(as you are comparing an unknown a320 vs. emirates)


also, on a side note - (and im trying to be friendly here) - i know the choice of smileys may be tempting and not as bad as writing in caps lock or poor grammar - but its just too much.

At I guess he is flying for IndiGo an Indian LCC part of InterGlobe Aviation.

They operate the A320-232

@ PT6A thanks..
lol, tats was long time back.!

@ Another

Pretty much stable and expanding hence the opportunity for upgrade..

point taken.. my ELP is level 4:rolleyes:, so pls bear wid me my friend.. looking for some honest views tats all...

ELP 4 SPL 6:eek:

You get a crack at EK, go for it ,the command will come in relatively short time,
patience young lad,patinence !

Emirates. You say you are currently 27 years old. Assume you will upgrade in 7-8 years - you would be an Emiartes A330/340/350 or 777 Captain at age 35-36. Can you imagine flying a 777/A340/A350 as a Captain in your home country at age 36? Probably won't happen. If you are indeed Indian, why would you want to be caught up in that airline mess? IMHO, go to Emirates and enjoy a long career flying the world.

EK aren't taking DECS.

The absolute minimum hours they have ever taken DECS was 8000 and 4000 command, so " A few hours" isn't going to cut it.

At the moment it's 10 000 hrs including hours on an EK type, for a position they aren't hiring for.

Not the best advice ever.......

Go do some bush flying mate, its the best experience ever :ok:

Hi,

I was in the same Position to make a decision a few years back, well in fact exactly the same, I turned down a definite YES from EK, to take a command on 737CL (not in India, but not an ideal employer by any means).

All I can say is, although your machine is a lot better and marketable than mine, but 4 bars is not going to aleviate the constant and ongoing mental pressure working for An airline in a non developed country, especially in my case, being pressured to break rules by the so called mgmt pilots on a daily basis.

Long story short, I wish I had taken the EK FO instead...... If I did, I would have been into my fourth year, and I dont think I am too optimistic if I say I would have been atleast close to half way to EK command.

Another thing is, Maybe anyone could answer me, I submitted my application to DEC position @ flydubai, and immidiately received a reply saying thatbthey cannot proceed further with my application.... Anything to do at all with me turningbdown EK offer few years back??

And by the way, I had another go at EK before applying to flydubai, and the system simply prevents me for applying.....

Back to topic. So I suggest, considering your age, I would strongly recommend you to accept the offer from EK.

Good luck!!!

You would be well advised to take the upgrade. As has been pointed out command experience is definitely at a premium. If you join EK now you may love it. But if you don't where do you go then? If you have reasonable command experience it gives you many more options if you decide the sandpit is not for you.

Also as has been posted elsewhere, the upgrade in EK is not automatic. I would argue that your chance of success is much greater if you already have command experience. Short haul builds that much quicker with multiple sector days. I would be amazed if EK tell you that you can never reapply because you turned them down for a command. However either way you are a lucky guy.

OZ,

EK are taking DEC...... See the posts on the ME forum.

Also a friend recently got an invite.

B738driver,

You say your plan is to gain PIC time before going to EK so as to have the option of returning to Europe in, say, 5 years time as a narrowbody DEC?

Exactly which European airline do you envisage in 5 years time will be hiring DECs? How many European EK FOs do you think have a similar plan? Do you think airlines offering narrowbody DECs are really going to want a B777 rated pilot with only long haul recency? Do you think an airline will be salivating at your P1 time being 5 years+ out of recency?

I asked myself these questions a year or two ago and took the command.

EK looks like a great job, but you have to accept it's a one way ticket to Dubai for all but the lucky few.

There are rumours they might, but they heven't yet, and I bet your friend has a lot more than "A few hours command" in an A320.

I disagree. It doesn't make sense at all to join EK if you don't plan to stay there.
Should you leave, you are at the mercy of contractors or at the bottom of a seniority list somewhere else. Direct-entries are scarce, legacy airlines never offer it anyway.
Where exactly does one go after Emirates ?? Name one outfit that is somewhat stable and has better terms and conditions.

Again, name one outfit you go to from EK that is not a step backwards!

Of course you can always go somewhere else, but the question was if you then would be better of had you not joined EK, but joined the very same company / stayed where you are right away. That is what I see as a one-way street!

Since when is EK a legacy carrier? :E

I agree with 711. Why go to EK if you don't plan to stay till retirement? What is the use of wide body experience when the airlines in your home country do not have wide bodies to come back to let alone DEC positions? Now I understand that the topic starter is from India, so that may change things a bit, but from a European point of view, you better be sure that you want to stay in the desert, otherwise the move to EK is a blind move (which is fine, if you like that sort of thing!).

Penko,

Depends what people want out of their flying career. Not everyone has your opinion. Do you want to see the world or stay local? Some people don't mind flying for a Euro LCC run by a tyrant to the same destinations over and over and over with exhausting early and late schedules. Sure, it is a consistent paycheck at a stable airline, but every day is like ground hog day.

On the other side of the coin, some people would rather try new things and see new places and fly the most advanced equipment:

Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

or

Photos: Boeing 777-36N/ER Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They want to broaden their horizons and experience new cultures and perspectives. Plus, spending 7-8 years at EK could open up new doors to other expat opportunities down the road if the EK job loses it's luster.

Getting a few years of EK experience shouldn't hurt your overall career prospects - especially with Europe's downturn and the resulting flood of cheap pilots who want to stay in the area. Comparing Dubai to India should be a no-brainer. The Indian airline market is a mess and most pilots are paid squat - especially compared to the full EK package (salary, housing, etc.).

Don't misunderstand, EK is certainly not perfect. Just listen to the very vocal EK pilots on Pprune - exhausting flying, broken "promises" and some cultural issues. I don't fly for EK, but I know a few people who do and I hear about the positives and negatives. QR and EY also have serious negatives. That said, if this chap has already passed the EK process, perhaps he should give it a go and see the world........ That's my 2 cents. :cool::*:}:ok:

Clearly, if you are motivated by a big flashy WB, you should go to EK.

If you care more about family and want to marry and actually have a relationship, and that WB dream is not the only thing in life, you should upgrade.
(guessing you are not married - I highly doubt your wife would giving you the option to do either ;) )

only you know what you want from life?

Cordially disagree with that.

I've done European LCC and now fly for EK. The advantages for the Family here, plus the time I get to spend with them, is one motivator for us staying.

Iver, I do agree with what you in a way. But all that 'seeing the world' and flying big planes comes at a price: saying bye-bye to a stable life in your home country. That is a high price to pay for a lot of people. Like you say, a career in EK opens up other EXPAT opportunities. But how many people honestly want to be an expat contractor for their whole flying career?

Wizofoz, you have a family that will move with you around the world, and that is fine. In that case EK might be a dream job. But surely there is some sacrifice? What advantages does your wife have in Dubai that she did not have in your home country? And your children? Honest question :ok:

Oh defiantly, no rose coloured glasses here- Dubai has it's problems and challenges. If we could afford the same lifestyle at home, we'd be there.

Advantages to my wife? A husband with a well paid job who is around occasionally! PLUS it IS a great place for the Girls to socialize, shop etc. We go out to a lot nicer places a lot more often.

The Kids have blossomed here- both go to excellent schools (that isn't a given- some here aren't great) and are involved in activities outside of school- plus things don't get canceled because of the rain very often!!

iflyguy,
I've had this conversation with a few 320s FO's ..... as you rightly pointed out there is no right and wrong- at the end of the day you'll decide what suits you.
I'm kinda in the same position as you, same age group 320 FO flying in India (but not near command). I took the EK offer and am heading off in a few months. Had command been offered to me (or even if i was a Captain) I would still take the EK offer. But hey that's just me.

IMHO there are a few reasons to not take the EK offer. 1) Family obligations 2) Monetarily and 3) If you're not gonna like DXB.

Reasons for.
1) Professional growth. I know PIC time is gold but ... at 27!! If I stayed in India command would come (eventually) ... then what? Fly mainly domestic on the same aircraft in the same company with the same flying culture? No thanks!
Id rather work abroad and gain a new perspective. In the long run it'll make you a better pilot no question about it.
2) Iv heard a few people say "once you taste the left seat its hard to go back to the right seat' .... :ugh: at 27??? Maybe if you were in your 40s then staying as an F/O becomes more complicated but we have almost 40 years of flying ahead of us. Captaincy will come, quite frankly flying in one country or company your whole life- you'll have blinders on.

Career growth career growth career growth. I know a lot of people on this forum will ridicule us for wanting to move to EK (we know it has its negatives) but we all have our comparisons. Indigo is stable and growing- but remember the industry in India will be thrice as big a decade from now- moving back will be an option and you'll probably be able to move back as a captain should you want to 10 years from now.

My 2 cents

I think stealthpilot summed it up right. I have an acquaintance in EK and from what I've learned they don't generally take DEC's, but when they do, it's usually guys with around 10000 hours (remember it's an all wide body fleet) Most FO's are seniors with around 4000+hours total so getting in with less than 3000 hours is already a feat. Man you are 27, 40 years of jet flying left (boring:zzz:), go ahead and explore new horizons, make some money, have fun while you're at it; Command will come in time., and even if it comes in ten years, well you'll still have 30 years left... on the left!

Command time opens more doors at more carriers than F/O time. That said, delay your employment with EK for as long as possible, that is if you have your heart set on EK.

According to a bunch of my mates at EK... no DECs in the immediate future. Too many F/Os to move in that direction first, even with additional aircraft EK is taking.

A seniority system is a seniority system.

It all depends where you are! A320 f/o where? If i would be in Indigo, i would definitely go for ek!! Capt in europe well paid a320 job.. Ek, no way!! Again it all depends on what you want in life!

PENKO,

easyJet is packed to the rafters of ex-widebody skippers from BA/Singapore/Virgin/Cathay Terrific and Emirates.

Dont forget the R.A.F widebody pilots too, (and also the R.A.F narrowbody pilots.)

They are a valueable commodity in an airline full of 200hr cadets!!

There are no DEC positions in easyJet craggenmore, nor does easyjet hire experienced FO's for fasttrack command....

So yes these guys are very valuable, but past results are no guarentee for the future.

EK seems to be here to stay. You cannot say the same for many A320 operators that will accept DEC for your future contract positions.

Future downturns may have you out of an A320 job for up to 6 months until you decide it is necessary to accept a sub standard contract in a place you would not want your family. You could easy be in the same position as many contract pilots who are job hunting regardless of their known need.

EK is the pick of the sandpit operators. Dare I say it, but also EK is the new CX. Hard to think that you could put them off for 2 years.

Missing the chance for an A320 command is a huge decision not to be made lightly. The fact that you made an EK application indicates that you must have already made this choice.