RyanAir or NetJets Europe
 

Hi, I'm looking for opinions on NJE vs RyanAir. Seems like not many are happy with work relations at RyanAir. QOL seems to be good being home every night (after perhaps a long day). Pay seems to be higher at RyanAir.

NJE website only lists starting year's salary...Does the salary stay the same (except for inflation increase)...meaning that longevity is rewarded via the annual bonus? Thoughts from others who have perhaps considered these two companies??? Thanks!

You asked the same question already in the Biz jet forum... be patient.. :ugh:

Otherwise read this one and PM redsnail as she flies at NJE and her husb at EZY so she knows the perks and disadv like nobody else..

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309382

Hi, I did post the same in Biz Jet forum...I thought RyanAir pilots might not be lurking in BizJet and that it might be nice to hear from them as well.

I did read redsnail's post...very insightful, thank you.

Ok here is the deal mate,

the starting salary will be the same except for inflation correction. Basically they reward you for coming to Netjets with a very nice paycheck at the start (concidering that you pay only 25% tax in total) and you can increase that by 10000 euros, but that´s it for the moment. Maybe in the future there will be more money.

In all fareness, I could be in the flagcarrier of my country for 20 years and have attained the position of captain 747 and I would still not get the same net salary as here in Netjets.... But then again tax in my country is normally 52%......

Fortuna76, thanks for the info. Do I understand correctly that with NetJets, you pay your taxes to Portugal (even if you don't live there)? Wouldn't you owe taxes to your country of residence after having subtracted the amount payed to Portugal??? Is there some rule that keeps one from paying taxes to country of residence since you're on the road half the year? Thanks for the advice!

jousteagle.

If you are considering taking up a position with Netjets do your homework. Get an answer direct from the tax authorities in whichever country you will be living. Whatever you do, do not blindly accept Netjets assurance that this tri-lateral agreement will save you from having to pay tax at home as in some cases it will not.

You also need to ask about your social contributions which, if you join Netjets, will be paid to the UK whether you live there or not.

You cannot opt out of this scheme. It is take it or leave it.

jousteagle

its almost like comparing apples and pears!! You can look at the relative plusses and minuses of pay and conditions - but do not forget that the day to day job of both is massively different. So much so that I recommend you put the 'daily duty lifestyle' at the top of your criteria list when deciding.

At NJE theres a lot of hour-to-hour changes of plan and new destinations all the time. Some love it, some loathe it!! :ok:Better class of pax too!

I am beginning to look at Net Jets E as a way to spend a few years back in Europe before calling it quits.

I'm trying to understand the tax story, When employed with NJ and taking residence in Switzerland, lets say Geneva, are you all saying that I will have to pay 25% income tax in Portugal regardless?

I would imagine that i would be liable for tax in Switzerland as well?

can someone enlighten me?

Oh yeah, another thing; how does NJ feel about Grey-hair? I could shave it but that doesn't change the mileage nor the march of the calendar.:rolleyes:

thanks in advance,

Fluf

from ryanair...
 

being a ryanair FO and having a netjets offer on my table since 2 months now i can say i am very not decided. Ryanair offers 737-800 command in 3-4 years, steady roster and home every night. The first thing i do appreciate, but not the second being 27 and single ...i would enjoy travel and experience on lots of airports more than just 12 destinations every week, 4 sectors a day, 12 hours duty a day starting 5.00z every day (or ending 2300z on the late shifts). It is more a married people thing. Also the thing about being able to live where i want with netjets, so not being linked to the misfortunes of the airline on a particular base (closing the base, being relocated etc etc) it is very good and appeal to my wish for adventure. Also the perks..well, ryanair doesnt have any...i bring my own food to the airplane everyday...and if u think thats fine..well, u should consider how much free time u have at home every night... from a 2300z arrival into ur base and a 1100z departure next day, with the roads always blocked, 8 hours to sleep and the house to mantain and clean. I would say it is better to be 6 days on the road in hotel all organized for u and go back home one at a time for 5 days and live your life there. This is a HOTEL job, it was for years, it will always be in my opinion. I cant help to be sorry every time i use to wake up my family at 3.50 in the morning when i used to live with them (yes, after type rating where is the money for a house??)
This going back and forth to the airport isnt exactly nice,i feel like working in a office, but 12 hours a day with the strangest timetable.
That is what i can give you to choose.
my 2 cents lets say...

Fluf, I cannot answer specifically, but the tax situation for those not resident in either Portugal or UK is now 20%. You apparently still pay social security to the UK. (I am on a UK contract because I am resident in the UK. Tax and NI paid in the UK)

My Swiss colleagues haven't been grumbling about any double tax issues so I'd say based on that, Switzerland has reciprocal agreements. We've got a few guys based in Geneva.

Grey hair? Not a problem. :D

Where is good old Smeagel now when he is needed? Any idea Flintstone?

H.Finn. Maybe he'd turn up if you flashed him your ring?

You must really miss him. I could don a loincloth, eat raw fish and do a passable impression if you like? :rolleyes:


How's the weather up north?

in my last airline:

took me 15 seconds on the internet: :ugh:

http://www.netjetseurope.com/data/en..._benefits.html

Cheers

sirvival

Thanks, IT never a strong point.

Another question; Who cleans these BJ's on the turnarounds? Who loads/unloads the baggage? Are there FA's on all NJ's BJ's?

Thanks

Another question; Who cleans these BJ's on the turnarounds? Who loads/unloads the baggage? Are there FA's on all NJ's BJ's?

Q1 80% of the time, you do.
Q2 You do.
Q3 No. Only on the hawker 4000 and up.

Cheers RV

And I still like it.

Mate, don't come to FR.
We're in a miserable downwards spiral, conditions getting worse and worse for each year, and we have to negotiate how big our paycut is going to be even though they're making record profits. And that's just the beginning. I'm not going to go on a rant here, but there are major issues here, that will never get solved (until pilots get organized, which will never happen)
FR is a good starter place, get some hours then get out. Unfortunately I haven't made it out yet since it's tough to leave after getting your command, mainly because of the economy of going back to the right seat. Having said that, I'm looking at going to NJ's as soon as my bond is up (had to sign a 2 year 5k bond for the command training!)

Jousteagle

Look at it this way Netjets are actually trying to improve the lot of its pilots and things are getting better. As with EVERY OTHER airline things arent perfect but Bill and his team are making an effort.

On the other hand how many posts have you seen with someone claiming that things are on the up at FR.

Without a union we have had a tangible increase in benefits and lifestyle:ok: despite what the naysayers babble on about

Without a union in FR your are FUCT:ugh:

The other aspect is that you simply wont get the variety and challenges in flying in FR as we do in NJE or anyother airline come to that.

Good luck with your choice but for me its a no brainer (if you can stand being away from home for 5 nights)

I don't profess to know the job at NJE but I would doubt the sentiment about "challenge".

We fly into some small airfields, a few into uncontrolled airspace, often with short runways, limited approaches and rubbish weather.

Add to that the operational and scheduling pressures of up to 189 on and off in 25 minutes and it gets challenging.

I would suggest given the choice you heed the advice of others and join NJE. The only perceivable benefit I could see in FR is set in stone 5/4 roster and home every night, in their defence the aircraft are very well maintained and training is much better than my previous company. But, as for renumeration it has been on an expeditious 180 degree heading for years and will continue as long as we have the Anti Robin hood, taking from the poor to give to the rich, running the joint. Until/If FR get unionised steer clear. :uhoh:

gone til november is right, things at Netjets have improved however the impression is given that those improvements were simply offered up by the company. This is not quite the full picture.

As anyone who has spent any length of time in Netjets (Europe) will tell you their management's biggest fear by far is an organised workforce and the mere threat of a this was enough for them to initiate their anti-union strategy. I know this as I was told by senior personnel. Look across the water to Netjets there, see how their terms and conditions came on in leaps and bounds once the Teamsters began to represent them and you'll see why Lisbon are doing their utmost to avoid a repeat. The few improvements given so far are a holding action. The Teamsters came to Europe and briefed Netjets crew on what to expect from the company. 'Surveys' on what they would like to see changed (which were dragged out to buy time), contracts that affect separate factions in different ways so some benefit and others do not, sympathetic 'moles' within the workforce who reported back to management. All of these were predicted and materialised.

Netjets and Ryanair crew are subject to the same divide and rule tactics from their management. It's as plain as the nose on your face. All it comes down to is which version, if any, you want to live with.

Botty

Ditto

You can do all of that and more with NJE. Flew the other day from Zurich to Samedan. A short flight from controled envirionment to a VFR uncontrolled short runway down a Swiss valley. As a company we did over 1000 airports last year with over 700 in Europe alone. Its quite usual to fly from a -30c airport to a +30 in the same flight with all the attendant wx pattern involved.

In Russia we've had flights where we have to have a Russian navigator on board because the fields dont appear on any charts. If there is a more challenging job out there then i have yet to see it and would be happy to be proved wrong.

As a NJE/Biz Jet pilot no two days are ever the same and some of them are eye openers.

Any ideas how much a NetJet FO would take home in the UK.
I'm still a touch confused about the tax situation.

As I read it IF you live in the UK you pay UK tax and NI? Or do you also have to pay portuguese tax and then sort it all out at year end?

I note that the salary is in euros. Do you get paid in euros or is it converted to sterling? if so is it different every month, or do you sign your contract at a particular exchange rate?

I agree with what you say about the job - i have a few friends in the BJ world and they love it, they all say the same as above - you can't get a more varied or a more 'hands on' operation.

757_DRIVER

As a UK based pilot you only pay UK tax and NI on a PAYE basis like any other UK based employment. If you want to move overseas you can at any point, but will change to a 'continental' contract where you pay 20% tax to Portugal, UK NI, and then it depends on where you live and what agreements are made betweeen Portugal and your country of residence. Most places (not Denmark!!) have a double-taxation agreement so there is no more to pay.

Regarding pay in £ or €, your choice. You can change as often as you want, so if you can be bothered to track exchange rates you can make a bit more.

The flying is great, the roster - once published on the 15th of the month for the following calander month - doesnt change, and pay is fine:ok:. Dealing with some of the depts in Lisboa can be very frustrating:ugh::ugh:

Please forgive the interruption, but "most places have a double-taxation agreement so there is no more to pay" depends on the tax rates. If you are paying 40% tax and tax at home is 30%, there is no more to pay, but if you are paying 30% and tax at home is 40%, you owe 10%. Tax residency is usually clearly defined by home legislation. All double-taxation treaties do is ensure you don't pay 70%, they don't allow you to pay nothing or the lower tax rates as suits (many double taxation treaties now mention ships crew and aircraft crew specifically). It would be unwise for employers to leave tax payment up to the individual, because, for example, UK legislation allows Revenue to go straight after the employer in the case of non-payment of taxes. Of course, the taxman may never catch up with you, but increasingly in Europe it is tightening up, plus the taxman's interest in some pilots who think that tax laws don't apply to them.

Incidentally, having the facility to switch currency is extremely unusual, and something to be taken advantage of if it does.

Spaniel

The Danish situation has been resolved according to a couple i met on tour recently. Generally i've found crew comm and Despatch helpful and good to deal with. Its worth remembering that they put up with a lot of !!!!e and pressure as well and are just messengers of crap change to your briefs.

757

£3200 to £3400 depending on your roster is average for a UK based FO. As a skipper expect about an extra £1500 on top of that.

The last post is also including the per diems of 70 Euros a day.

I would say an average month would range from 15-18 days a month.

If stand by at home, one is not paid per diems for that.

All the above is true and forgot to mention that, that is the in hand after tax figure.

It works out at about £38000 taxed at the lower rate of tax (its just below the 40% threshold) + €70 per diem which is tax free. As southcoast says 15-18 days per month is average so you can do the maths.

There is an option to volunteer for extra days over the busy months Jun, Jul and Sep. Do two days per month and its about an extra £700 per month after tax.

gone till november

Who said anything about "crew comm and Dispatch"?? People jumping to erroneous conclusions is just as frustrating as "dealling with some of the Depts in Lisboa". Dispatch have steadily improved over the last 6 years and are now one of the best Depts!!

bear11

You are, of course, right, but the majority of NTA pilots do not also pay additional tax back home.

Spaniel

Sorry to have pissed on your strawberrys:confused: As you didnt clarify which, i assumed, which as we all know is always death in aviation.