Swiss salary and time to command
 

Hi everyone,

can anyone tell me what it's like at Swiss at the moment? Salary/package/pension, time to command, annual hours worked, roster patterns etc? Morale? And perhaps the biggie - do you have to speak german??

Cheers

Swiss International or Swiss European?
German: Not necessarily...
N1

Well:hmm: German is not their favourite language, but they call it schwiitzerduetsch.
15 to 20 years to command some of the international carrier even never!!:p

Even if you join SWU (Swiss European), you would want to join the career patch, i.e. change over to Swiss International on A320 after a few years. Therafter there's the 10-18 years to CMD, depending on fleet size.

Dani

I thought SWISS required English, German and French? Flew SWISS International not 2 weeks ago and the Skipper and FO both spoke all 3, and seeing that German and French are the main languages (as well as Italian) then one would assume you have to speak them.

Lets see, the webpage about particular pilot jobs is written in german.....it says: Sprachliche Voraussetzungen...
Ausgezeichnete Deutsch-und Englischkenntnisse

So, excellent language command in german and english. I dont think there is a way around it...

Unsurprisingly, not the answers I was hoping for!
 

Thanks guys. I was speaking to a SWISS cabin crew in Jeddah who was saying that they are short of pilots, and pretty desperate to get back some of the guys they had to let go a few years back. The idea of Zurich base sounded good, and I'm sure I could get a decent handle on German in a few months. But 10-to-life for command sounds a bit much. 10 would be OK! Are there any expansion plans that anyone's aware of?

By the way, the way the merger and voluntary redundancies are looking at Thomas Cook (UK), there will likely be recruitment for this summer. TC is actually very good, with decent Ts&Cs. Just not the prestige or 1st class travel of a flag carrier...

Thanks...:ok:

it 's a company of liars with the same swissair mentality, remember the 20 billiard they have stolen and the destruction of crossair, sabena, airlib,...

don't believe one word of what they say on their website and stop listening at cabin crews who know nothing about management except to serve coffee, they just want make you believe they are jobs to sell training for their swiss academy.They are not desperate to find pilots.if you don't believe, send your CV...

you need swissgerman and be very fluent. Swiss is a club and it is very hard to enter.Life is very expensive in zurich (like london)and taxes are high.

very well said dartagnan, thats 100% right.:D

Salary
 

Well, for the salary I must say, it sounds bad. Look @ ppjn and see for yourself. http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...cyhhe348hcawb5
I heard that if you join SWISS International and you come with rating and experience on the bus you join the scale in year 3, but converted to EUR that's still only 44,000.- per year :bored:
Tax is only around 20% though and healthinsurance is apparently quite good... :}

What's wrong with 44,000 Euros?:)

well, the 44 k€ is for the main line. If you don't have the rating, you join most probably on the regional line, on Avro 100, soon E-190. The pay there is even lower, but you get a compensation ("Marktzulage"), so you can survive. After 3 years you are allowed to apply for the Airbus job.

GSVal, the expansion is taking place this very moment. Still there are my friends on the A340 with 16 years as FO. Bear in mind that the upgrading is a very enduring process, and not everyone is making it, especially people outside the inner circle, comparable to Cathay and the like.

Dani

...soon E190 @ SWISS ?
 

Dani

Which planet are you coming from ?
May be you elaborate the term "soon" for us. If you are talking in geological terms, then "soon" will be right around the corner of course...
However, after refurbishing all cabin seats of the AVRO RJ fleet to the Airbus standard and the aircraft lease contracts running until 2011, there will be no shiny new Brazilian Jet on the tarmac in LSZH until 2010. The lease costs of these flying AVRO RJ fuel guzzlers are so low that SWISS is quite happy with it. ZRH-LCY is by far the most profitable route within the SWISS European network and the RJ is a perfect equipment to operate there. The E190 will be difficult to be certified for LCY ops (still quite some time to go), the A318 has the steep approach certification but is to big to be operated on a commercial basis into LCY at the moment. To accept A318 ops into LCY some big civil engineering work needs to be done on the ground before that will happen...
The AVRO RJs will stay the years to come. Check your sources before posting such a rubbish.

Soon??? Yes sure and a payrise at least 20%, and its time for a new uniform isnt it??;)

E-170/190
 

Well the official annoucement should come end of 2008, with the first 4 E-170/190 entering in service in 2009, and an expected completed fleet renewal in 2011... Bur for that they need of course lots of pilots... And this is of course only planification... How the reality looks like in 2011, there could be a few differences!:hmm:

For the Regional
 

Ok, so guys for the regional starting pay to year 10 pay as a Captain. I ask because in America it's basically the same starting pay at a local regional. Then it improves with time. Thanks for the help though?

CarbonBrake, you sure have no clue, beside your manners...

The Embraers are ordered already. The question is to which LH branch they are going. It all depends on the LCY approval. This could be a real stepping stone. Because if they cannot certify, LH wont buy them (for Swiss). Still I'm confident that they will find a solution, e.g. a subcontractor.

EjetSetter, after 10 years you can get around 10 000 CHF/month. Since the SWU pilot's pay is the lowest compared to everyone in LH, there is a chance that this number will rise. Also if you think how many pilots they need.

I agree that other regional airlines do not pay better. I cannot say too much against your plans to apply but - as you can see - there are a lot of frustrated and unhappy pilots in SWU...

More to come

Dani

Dani

Relax, have a Caipirinha !
It's a rumours network indeed, yet if you publish rubbish, I call it rubbish.
Once again, check your sources mate because mine in São José dos Campos, Zürich and Frankfurt tell me exactly what I posted...

Dani, the compensation is how much? Like say I make only 2,000 CHF a month, what is added on to that to make me survive? As you put it. I like the E-Jets a lot and would like to know if I could make a career out of just flying them.

It seems to me anyway btw, that a lot of frustrated pilots are on here and most drown out all thoes enjoyed with the job.

As an aside isn't the 190 already certified for steep approach with an extra flap allowing greater then a 3 degree slope in? I say this as FlyBaboo wanted the steep for LCY and Luzerne and now they ordered them.

Dani, i am sorry but youre not very precise on numbers.
Year 10 is 107000sfr, div by 12= 8916sfr in euro 5245,-, this amount minus socialtax and governm.tax, minus healthinsurance gives you about
6000,-sfr in euro 3529,-; is lousy for 10 years and command isnt it??:\

FO Year 1 63000sfr
FO Year 10 85000sfr
FO Year 27 99000sfr

CDR Year 5 90000sfr
CDR Year 10 107000sfr
CDR Year 27 146250sfr
always minus 15% soctax minus 10-20 tax minus healthinsurance.
I hope this is enough for you guys,and think twice before joining this bunch of l....s:mad:

Thin Albert what airline do you work for?

So isn't 3,500 euros a month pretty easy to get on by especially in Switzerland.

in Switzerland maybe, but certainly not in zurich, unless you like to live under the Limats'bridges!!!

Zurich and his areas are very expensive! one of the most expensive place in the world!
3500 euro after taxes, this is what make a tram driver(5800 francs before taxes).

I was offered my old job back in April and unfortunately had to say no. Or at least delay it. Two reasons - first there is still no way between the so-called 'Regional' flying and the A320 and second the pay was not great. In fact that is quite an understatement. It was pretty bad actually.

The job would have been nice and the Avro is not a bad airplane, but under the current conditions it was simply not a great option.

If there were currently a proper path from the Avro or Embraer to the A320 fleet it would be much nicer.

Anyway, Switzerland is very expensive and the money they offer is not very good. SWISS is surely just a shadow of what it used to be as Swissair and Crossair..... :ugh: Too bad. Very nice people there for sure from both sides of the old company.

I miss flying in Switzerland a lot, but the career prospects were not very good.

So where's a good place to live in Switzerland that also accessible to an airport that can get me to the LX base?

just draw a line worth 60 minutes by car or train and then take your pick. The further you move away from the big cities the cheaper the rent gets. Seems to be like that all over the globe

you are leaving Switzerland!!!:hmm:

that depends on the direction now doesn't it:8
seriously though, a lot of my colleagues live in Germany and commute to ZRH without any hassles

Thun anybody?

Thun is getting a bit far away. But seriously, Switzerland is so small that when you get an hour outside ZRH you're practically halfway across the country. Traffic coming into ZRH from that side can be tough though. Trains would be the best.

If you are serious you can hardly go wrong anywhere. There are no bad places in Switzerland. Only good and better.

Yes I'm really becomming serious because I do think that once LH has to negotiate with the Pilot Group the T&C's will finally be acceptable.

Actually many of these "crazy-enough-to-work-for-LX"-guys live in Berne and its surroundings... And most of them travel to work by train. Only thing is to get to ZRH for the earlies and back after the really lates. But thats what the PBS is for, aa'iiight?
Long live SBB and the "General Abonnement"!!!
N1

I think it's not worth to live far away from ZRH airport. If you want something cheap, go to Kloten (the village where the airport is located). There you can get reasonable block apartment. They are not highest quality, but still good enough compared to the international market. You spend much less money and time on travelling.

During your course, you can even get small flats from SAT (Swiss' trainings department) for a few 100 CHF, just in the backyard of the school building.

Lugano, I don't know if you have the latest information, but I can show you the letter from Swiss management about the career planning. By now, 2 SWU pilots became SWR A320 pilots, and 10 more are planned every year. You have to be younger than 30 though (1966 and younger).

Thin Albert, I didn't say the pay is very good, I just try to give neutral information. You are just lucky enough that you get more, but that is no reason to blame others who want to try their luck. I also don't get more than in SWU. But I'm happy. No airline other than the major in your homeland offers you a higher pay if you deduct your country's social tax/tax!

Dani

Hoi Dani
:\ i dont blame others to try their luck, i am justing saying be careful, you most probably will regret it after a while....for sure...!!!!!!

And secondly i was only correcting your numbers for the others because i think they are a little bit misleading to make a proper analysis and decision!

Hace a good time and happy new year!
Cheerio
TA

Quote from Dani
By now, 2 SWU pilots became SWR A320 pilots,


You just forget to tell one was an office pilot with a very bad seniority who could still keep his CMD at SWU seat by playing a dirty trick...:yuk:

Let's see how long he will survive as F/O at SWR :8:ouch::E

And upgrades to the Airbus are a random process - or in other words you have got to be liked to have a chance!

The proper way to do it would be to have one seniority list and have new-hire pilots assigned to the Avro or Embraer or whatever they get and cut their teeth on that plane. Pilots would progress up the seniority ladder just like at any other job.

That would be the most fair and proper way to do it. Probably won't happen, but maybe one day.

And EVERYONE there needs to understand that flying the smaller Avro is not easier or requires less skill or anything like that.

Anyway, it would be nice to see Swiss aviation be a world leader again and when everyone can put their personal ego aside and work together it could happen.

SR and LX were the best in their respective business for good reason - attention to detail and focus on quality.

Even as a now-outsider I would like to see that happen again.