BMI or Jump Ship?
 

To all current bmi pilots,

I have been with bmi now for a long time. Its been a great place to work and sure there have always been a few things to moan about, but in toto I feel I've had a great time flying for them.

There have been no commands since 09/11, fair enough but now finaly it looked as if there was going to be some movement with these new 330's coming along next summer. All of a sudden the board have decided to defer the new A/C and all of us hoping for command courses have gone out the window for another 18 months or so (assuming we do actually get these A/C)

I became an airline pilot with a set of clear goals and one of them is to have a command. I have never felt down about my job a bmi but it is just starting to feel the goal posts are being moved around a little to often.

I know things change on a daily basis in this game but I am realy also worried for the future of bmi. We need to expand! We get so close and a the last second it all stops. Its a real shame, bmi is such a great company but bishop and the board are letting it down. We have the slots and after fighting for years for the openskies why are we not using it to its full advantage and before every man and his dog builds networks accross the pond squeezing us out! I may be to late by 2009!

So chaps and chapesses, where does this leave us? Easyjet are I believe are recruiting in Feb, Virgin or Emirates etc. We have the 320/330 on our bits of paper and plenty of hours so my Q's is, do we do it or not? Or hang around untill Bishop wants to move in a direction better for us all.

This post is purely here to find out some opinions and is not a dig at bmi what so ever, but I do want to get on with my career and I know from speaking to guys on the line, they do to!

Kind Regards...

Are you sure you are interested in getting on wth YOUR career?, seems more like you are encouraging everyone else to get on with theirs while you procrastinate!

If you think there is a strong and sustainable future for BMI and you think that the current management are genuinely interested in the same ideals of you and your colleagues then by all means stay.
The fact that you are questioning this probably means that you are unsure about certain aspects of the future. Personally my future security is of utmost importance so I would be tempted to bring the ball into my own court and join an airline where there is a known and definite(aviation definite) structure for your command prospects.
All your chat of great colleagues and good place to work sounds very similar to another thread about an airline which has been recently purchased(GB)..and by all accounts none of these guys saw it coming.

Take your future into your own hands and if you have doubts, join an airline where that doubt no longer exists...if there is such a thing!

This is by no means a dig at BMI as I know nothing about them, just responding to your doubts....be it about any airline!
:ok:

A very good question bmibus. Wish I knew all, or even some, of the answers, but I don't. Nobody does!

One thing is certain, though. MB will be throwing his 51% into the ring at some point, probably sooner rather than later is my guess.

That could result in anything from no job losses to total carnage, depending who takes control of what. The command prospects are unlikely to become significantly better and could become much worse. It's a funny business, though, so I could be totally wrong.


But where else do you go? Would Easyjet be any quicker to command? Job security looks OK at present, but could change rapidly. But do you really want 30 years of loco workload? Then again, the currently running GB takeover thread is worth a read. Comments about rosters and workload might help you form an opinion. Virgin? Time to command still a problem, but could possibly change rapidly for the better. BA? Time to command probably worst of all, though job security seems the best, provided you get far enough up the ladder. As for Emirates, there are many threads on PPRuNe well worth a read! Bear in mind that those who are happy with any of these airlines are less likely to be sounding off, which means PPRuNe often gives an unbalanced picture!

One thing is certain. If you're 30 years old, as your title says, you've only got a few years left before doors everywhere close on you forever. It's now or never. You seem to be aware of that at least, unlike a lot of the ostriches at bmi.

Dare I say you should have thought about this and taken action five years ago at age 25, when bmi was well into it's downward spiral. There's time enough to make mistakes at that age and possibly still recover. That's more of a message for the 25 year olds, I guess.

Anyway, maybe I've helped, maybe not. All I can do is throw a few opinions into the mix. Good luck!

Very true, given that you're in the right hand seat. :)

A very different picture for occupants of the better side of the house at any age. :p

Conslusions may be drawn from that! :ok:

(I sit either side, sometimes because the job demands it, sometimes because I've forgotten what I'm meant to be doing!). :sad:

In for a penny, in for a pound.
Im in the same position as you, if you have waited this long another year at max wont killl your career off.
The latest retraction of orders is the second biggest kick ive had from bmi since getting a dear John letter in nov 2001 but The Bish's put option matures end of 08, Im not saying youll win but i dont think youll lose by staying another year, i like everyone else who have stuck it out have been let down but look at the long game!

regards

Keepitlit

Get out of the airline business. Go check out Netjets Europe - with your hours and experience you would probably get a command sooner than later. You would not wait many years (maybe a year or two max) to upgrade and then you would get instant route variety and a set schedule. Say goodbye to those boring, monotonous routes. Plus, they pay pretty well. Just a consideration.

Check this out:

http://www.netjetseurope.com/data/en...p_careers.html


Good luck.

Not if you're a family man!
Spend Six days galavanting around Europe/the world. Give me the predictable roster any day! Unless being beck'n'call on the end of the phone ticks the boxes for you. :bored:

The funny thing is I work for a lo-co and my mates at BA (SH and LH) and Virgin fly more hours than I do.

I probably fly more sectors than them....

It is a myth that lo-co pilots fly more than anyone else.

The few airlines where pilots have been flying substantially less than this will not exist in 30 years so one way or another, every pilot (except perhaps some VIP/VVIP corporate pilots) ought to prepare themselves to fly more than they did 5 or 10 years ago whatever or whoever they work for...

I believe the exact converse of acbus1 in the sense that I don't believe SMB will either sell or be forced to sell his airline in the near future.

Things are just getting interesting again for bmi.

That said second guessing the strategic aims of bmi management is a bit like trying to predict the behaviour of liquid helium.

Stay and take the gamble bmibus. The airline will soon be in different hands due to the exit of Mr Bishop and then things could change quickly. My money is on the Lufthansa people as they've already got a jackboot in the door. There's really not much better out there at the moment due to the uncertainty in the world (high oil price, middle east uncertainties plus open-skies looming for LHR etc.)

Best of luck,

The Count

The grass is always greener.....I'd stay put if i were you. With BA and Virgin you would be waiting a hell of a lot longer for command. With Easyjet and Co you would get a quick command and be fed up of the place within 2 years. And whats all this about doors closing in front of you when you reach your thirties?never heard such rubbish in all my life!Sure you have at least 30 more years to be a skipper,whats the rush!I bet ther are plenty of captains out there who would be only too happy to swop places with you.
Best of luck whatever you decide.

Some misinterpretation of my post is worthy of clarification.


My post was referring to ability to move from one airline to another, not age vs command promotion. RTFQ.

I don't know the exact cut-off ages for recruitment by Easyjet, BA, Virgin, Emirates etc, but I do know that the older you are, the closer you get to those cut-offs.

Anyone have any of the cut-off ages? Please post here, if you do.


I wasn't referring to flying hours. My concern would be in relation to many of the other factors leading to chronic fatigue - sectors, turnround times, roster patterns etc.

....and posting on PPRuNe. :rolleyes:

I am ex bmi and now easyJet at BRS.

It is a myth that I now work harder. I fly close to 900 hours a year, but my typical flying hours per day is close to 6, this means that on average I have worked 13.5 days per month since joining 4 years ago, this equals close to 75 hours per month = 900. Or if days off are your thing then I get an average of 17 days per month free of actually flying. I am at home almost every night with very occasional night stops, an average of less than 1 per month.

When you hear moaners stating that they are working 100 hours per month, then this means that after 9 months they would have 3 months free of flying, fantastic, off skiing!

I have spoken to crewing a handful of times and it is unusual to be called on standby - less than 30% of them over the 4 years. When you do speak to crewing they are polite and helpful, something that I think would be a new experience for any bmi pilot. I understand that bmi crewing are exactly how they were a few years ago.

My rosters are set in stone and leave booking is open and fair. Financially I am much better off and with the expansion plan that the company has you will probably have the oportunity to get a command asessment within 2 years maximum, possibly less with your Airbus experience.

If I were you I would sit tight to see how it all falls out after Open Skies next year. At your age with your experience another year will have no bearing on you being able to join easyJet.

Don't believe most of the bad things you hear about the Orange empire.

Politically, I can't see that HMG would ever let Lufthansa into LHR and gain the presence they would if they bought bmi.

Whatever the bit of paper says, that would be a coup d'etat for LH.

But I personally can't see SMB giving up 50 years of endeavour to the Germans.

Personally, I've got nothing against LH whatsoever, but those in the corridors of power at Westminster and airline HQ's probably do.

PS: 264 posts in 8 years...an average of ~3/month.

Thanks guys and girls for all your comments, some realy good points here. It will just be interesting to see what happens over the next few months. I just hope the company takes steps towards being the company which it should be.

Keep your points coming.

Kind regards...

Purely as someone from the outside looking in, I could use a job so by all means jump ship. :ok:

I'd be inclined to say stay at least until the dust settles on the BMED business. I suspect a whole load of them will run away run away when they get their new 'improved' roster!

Oh for a job with BMI (I had my interview whisked from under my feet with a weeks notcie - gutted!)

BMED guys
 

I haven't flow with any BMED guys yet, whats your view on the situation?

If Command is your goal then don't stay in companies that have had no growth in years.I think i am correct in saying that BMI have not had any promotions since 9/11.That's a very very long time in avaition.
What i dont get is how BMI announce with great pride a whole bunch of 330's then 6 weeks later defer them.Something is going on!!:)

With reference to any potential sale of SMBs controlling stake. Article in yesterdays papers about LHR and slots stated that BMI has 11% of the total. SMB seems to have been playing the long game for years waiting to release the huge potential of this asset. BMI seems to have just plodded along and not made the most of this goldmine, so why not?. The same article stated that Lufthansa have first call to buy SMBs stake at £250m. Given the current frenzy over slots at LHR (£5m/£10m/£20m per pair depending on which paper you read), I don't think he's getting a good deal for his stake. What that suggests to me is that BMIs future when a sale of the company does happen will involve a big change in how those slots are used. What can't be predicted is if that will be positive for the crews and their futures or if they slim down the worst routes and someone else uses them for long haul etc.

No axe to grind just a view from the touchline of a game thats well into extra time already!

Emirates
 

Anyone have any good info on Emirates? Pro's, Con's.

Regards

Emirates;to try or not to try!?
 

Having followed the BMI stories,I know a few Ex Brit/European Airline First Officers who fled to the Emirates and now have Commands on Superb Aircraft with gorgeous Girls and Engineering that does not suffer from JAR 166 Car mechanics ,so you get proper line maintenance.If you want the life style that is fantastic,then go for it!!The old days of Gulf in Bahrain,or Cathay in HK(With millionaire status in 10 years)have gone though.However,you must find out about the Interview Board Q&A.Their Technical interrogation is tricky,and you need a good brain to fathom out how to "Rescue some captured colleagues from nasties,with some injured in your team-Who do you leave and who stays,what route do you take from those shown,and where are the local resources you require to achieve your aims?"They put a lot of emphasis on Command decision making.This was a few years back,but they must still require such thought processes.Does anyone else have more up to date information.?Good luck in your endeavours!!In the UK,Easy must be a better bet than BMI.In a past life,whilst transiting in the Crew Bus at Manchester,a bunch of Oz 737 Pilots with BMI took great glee at telling me just what our New Pay deal was and knew more about our Pension Scheme than our guys did;I did not think we had anything to do with BMI,but they knew everything on the grape vine.We had also agreed NOT to take on Any Oz Strikers,which these guys were.;)

So, what's the situation, bmibus?

How is the 'see what happens' approach working out?

bmibus

I spoke to one of your colleagues recently and he said that bmi and Astraeus have agreed on some command slots on the 757 to go to bmi SFOs who are waiting for a command and have been waiting for some time by the sounds of things. Obviously at the end of the Astraeus deal then those bmi Capts on the 757 would come back to bmi mainline on the Airbus? If this is still going ahead then will this create a bit of movement - but I guess it won't be enough in the grand scheme of things?

Command is great experience and good fun but after a couple of years the novelty will wear off a bit!!! The things that stop us going back to the right seat with other airlines is not the job itself but the cash!

Mr G

Your information isnt quite correct, its 6 captains with experiance that are to go across on the 75's, the new commands are on the airbus, its for a MINIMUM of 2 years, the new commands are temp but they should become perm within the 2 year period due to leavers and retirements.


regards

Keepitlit

Thanks for that. I was just given a rough synopsis of what was going on whilst having a bite to eat at a friends house and a bmi F/O was there too.

However at least there is movement in bmi. I suppose for bmibus it all depends where you are on the seniority list with regard to these new command opportunities? If your far off then perhaps a move might be a good idea given the hype of Lufty getting involved etc.

Don't bother joining EZY if you want a quck command. The whole process has ground to a halt with currently at least 150 on the waiting list, which is growing daily.

With maybe 30 command slots next year, you can do the sums for yourselves. Those who joined the company with the promise of a "fast track command" now realise how hollow those words are.

Amen to that.

The company has stranded totally regarding commands, the next courses are planned for next summer. 10 on the 737 and 20-30 on the 319. This due the integration with GB Airways and that the company has hired lots of DEC on contract :yuk:

So sit tight, and leave when the time is right.

Poss thread creep here and im sorry for that.

Does anyone know with the prospect of some seat jumping if there is likely to be a need for some new f/o's.

I'm aware the company has somewhat ground to a halt but personally i'm in a position where by i need to choose if it's worth holding out for a job with yourselves (as of sept. unemployed) or getting myself into a lot more debt in the form of an other type rating/bond (would be my second since joining your hold pool july '07).

Which Company are you talking about?

In answer to your question:

bmi - Virtually nil.

eJ - Virtually nil.

Jump hold pool!
 

Todders, its sounds as if you have a difficult decision. To shed some light on the current bmi situation, I recently asked for a friend who is ex- XL. He has 3500+ almost all jet, 2300 hrs heavy jet 767, the rest 737. He is obviously not type-rated, but to most operators would be considered a very low training risk. The response was that in the current economic climate, it is better for the company to work its existing pilots harder [even to the extent of buying days off from them], than to take on more pilots. At present both pilots and cabin crew are at fairly low levels. [Quite a few of both are now part-time]. I was told clearly that it will stay like that and be reviewed in the spring at the earliest. I would not hang around for a promise....but it is your decision dependent upon your situation.

IMHO, the company is trying its best to show other parties that it makes 'x' revenues/profits- losses with a view to major strategic change in the not too disant future. Having been in your position, I don't evny you especially in todays economy.

Take any job, any where, for a reasonable amount of money -fly anything!
The very best of luck to you.:ok: ST

Hi guys thank you for your replies. Guess i'll just have to see what happens and in the mean time keep applying everywhere.
Anyone want to buy a 737 for me to fly when did everyone start buying airbus?????

Ps there smart guys those XXL guys ;)

They are indeed ;)

Thanks for the info ST.

If I might echco the words of jackitin - the Orange Empire is a great place to work but like everyone else has some big challenges ahead. If you want short haul and you want to be home most nights then easyJet is as good as it gets. I have worked there 4 and a half years and have few complaints. If you get a command you will not be bored within 2 years - I still love the variety. We fly to more destinations from Gatwick than any other airline including BA - it is varied and interesting.

The one word of caution I would have is about quick commands. That is simply not true any more. Anyone joining today is probably looking at several years to command, and even then there is a big question about future expansion in the current climate. The day-to-day flying is busy but pleasant and if you want to be an airline pilot then easyJet is a great place to be. If you want long haul lifestyle then go to BA or Virgin. Just my thoughts.