Where to from EZY and Ryan, and for how much more?
 

Hi. My first post.
Just read with horror the threads regarding T&C deterioration at Ryan, and of people leaving both Ryan and EZY for greener pastures and being a lot happier. From down south those two look like good opportunities, so I was hoping to hear from crew who have left. Which airlines offer better deals, and if possible, what are some of the improvements in the T&Cs to be found elsewhere, quality of life included. Thanks, and enjoy your Northern-Hemisphere summer!

People actually seem happy to me within easy, things have changed by the looks of it.

I spoke to a guy at Ryanair last week who had actually started his command upgrade. He's leaving to join Cathay as a Second Officer.

In the last while, I know of people who have left scumair to fly with airlines operating aircraft from the 146 to the 744 and everything in between. A lot have also gone corporate. The range of airlines people go to is vast and both distinguished and indistinguished. Not that fr care though as there always seems to be someone else naive to shaft.
Easy is apparently a different matter. From reports I've heard there is now no similarity between fr and easy as employers. Easy now seems to be a reputable career airline. Many have left fr for easy recently. Those that came the other way a year or two ago must now be feeling pretty stupid!

If you can tell me how many that came over a year or two ago have returned to Easy or even applied to them then you may have a point.

Otherwise I suggest you stop making assumptions and talking bollocks on my behalf ! :=

As for being naive, my CV proves otherwise.

I have NO regrets.

Looking at the recent posts regarding FR and EZY, it looks as there is more trouble at FR than at EZY. At least for the time being!

Good question. You may be forgiven for thinking that terms and conditions in Ryanair are terrible from reading fora like this - and you'd have a point if you were talking about certain elements of the pilot population, eg: if you're a low time F/O with no type rating, be in no doubt it's gonna hurt.

However, if you're an experienced Captain for example, you would struggle to find better terms and conditions that FR and EZ - Captains I met from FR who decided they had enough and were getting OUT started ringing around and then wound their necks in quickly when they heard what other airlines were paying, roster patterns, etc. The pilots may not like the management, no union allowed, fatigue factors, etc, or fancy a different lifestyle like longhaul, but that's a different issue than Pounds, Shillings, Pence, and roster patterns. So, the answer is separate the 2 things and decide which is more important to you.

EZY yes. However, I struggle to consider £56k or €66k basic as an adequate term and condition. A quick perusal of other airlines will reveal these for the derisive salaries they are. A junior FO in many many companies are on a higher total package than most fr skippers. Some EZY FO's are too. That's why skippers are leaving in droves. If the recent "pay deal" is implemented the already awful money will decrease further.

Stan:
I'm glad you're happy with the move. However there is a large q of skippers waiting to take up EZY's direct entry skipper offer. Do the maths. Your money is going down, EZY's is going up. FR was once higher, but those days are long gone. They will only return with comprehensive unionisation of fr.

My impression is that Easy has worked itself into a position of respect from aircrew, and is now an OK place to stay. Hopefuly the blue and yellow crowd can succesfully claw back some ground, unfortunately now looks as if it will be via a tedious and lengthy legal route. Best of luck to them.
Possibly then only major airlines and niche companys that can offer more in terms of earnings and time off?

Camelhair, which airlines are we talking about? Vueling, Sky Europe, Wizz, Air Berlin? And let's add it all up, because we all know that you get paid nothing for nothing these days and your basic is as low as it can go, with flight pay putting money in your pocket for working. Why did the EZY pilots move to FR if there is such a difference in salary? And what about roster patterns?

Far be it for me to act as an apologist for FR - pay deals in the current tight market for experienced Captains are neither here nor there, as market demand will dictate. If other airlines pay more (and have a more human face), Captains will move and all the FR posturing comes to nothing as they need the guys to fly their aircraft. Talking about 3-4 year pay deals in the current volatile environment doesn't fly for anyone. But you can be damn sure that FR do what they do because they can - everything is carefully benchmarked relative to other airlines.

easyJet and Ryanair are totally different companys

easyJet became a friendly company with a good reputation and is more and more becoming a career airline for the flight deck.

Ryanair is none of the above for which we should be sorry.

First post for me.

EZY a career airline?!?! EZY well paid?!?! Guess it depends on who you compare with.... Not trying to slag easyJet off in any way, actually quite happy here and its better then lots of deals being offered in Europe today.
Check out the "folder" that was sent out by BALPA a few months ago where they compared our payrates with others in the UK - Monarch, First C, BA short haul, Thomson etc etc. If you ONLY look at pay, its a waste of time working for EZY if you look anything beyond 5 years. That is NOT what I call a career airline...Being loyal pays off in a career airline.

When the base in MXP was opened the company tried to shaft us by lowering T&Cs on local contracts without ANY initial communication with BALPA. That was stopped and some of us had a positive feeling about future contract negotiations (pay, roster, leave etc etc) in that from now on things would at least go via BALPA BEFORE any changes were imposed. I was being somewhat more realistic about the whole thing and warned that just because we now had a new management, better communication between the company and BALPA, things would still be dealt with in a very business minded way also in the future....after all, management is there to make money, nothing else...thats their job. Speaking to some of my colleagues I found that they thought that my position was prob a bit too negative and that "things would get much better now"...

Madrid. :(
Pay negotiations. :(
New Command contracts. :(

:confused:

Well in the response to the last post I worked for Monarch until last November and moved to easyjet. Now I make probably £500 to £700 pounds a month more and I have a stable roster that I can plan my life around. The last part being the most important of all in my opinion.

Regards

Office Pest

Office Pest, now you've gone and spoiled this debate by letting the truth get in the way of a load of baloney. Spoilsport.

I can personnaly second what Office Pest says. I too, am ex MON and EZY have given me so far absolute roster stability, ie NO changes to my roster since I finished my training, more pay, and I will be getting my first choice of base in 2 weeks. Moving to EZY has been the best career decision I've made. It's not perfect but pretty damn good.

as for this:

not quite sure what you mean for the last two, however MAD is an issue. But thanks to a very strong BALPA representation and also to the fact that not enough people are buying into this MAD contract nonsense, I have good hope that management (relics of the pre-Harrison era perhaps?) will be forced to eat their hats.
As you say, management are here to make money. They WILL try and screw us, that is why a strong BALPA membership is vital. Every airline is the same.

MADRID,

komplex matter, there will be definitly improvement on the way!:ok:

PAY NEGOTIATIONS ????
What do you know, we do not know? They have not even started!:confused:

NEW COMMAND CONTRACTS??

Nothing changed for UK contracts. If you mean "filling the gap" at MAD temporarily? Even there is a positive change arranged.:ok:

And why? Solely because of BALPA! Otherwise nothing would have changed!:ok:

If somebody finally likes EZY or not, is up tp the individual pilot.

What disingenuosness is this? You seek to compare fiddly unprofitable regional outfits against ryanair. The peers of ryanair are the major carriers, the likes of easyjet and airlines such as southwest. Comparing like for like, fr lag seriously behind any of the above. And the way things are going, FR will soon pay less than the airlines you mention. in fact they do already in some categories of crew.

You're quite right, in ryanair you get paid virtually nothing for everything.

Except with so many new FO's, the ryanair FO's are getting little flying, thus their pay packets are decimated. Sure the captains are flying, but for less money than most other western European FO's.

EZy was once less. Now it is more. And it is guaranteed. And you have respect. And the operation is a hell of a lot safer than ryanairs (and before you bleat that this is not the case, why not read all the FR incident reports of the last couple of years, then read all the EZY's. Oh wait, there are none for EZY).

Well, EZY is 5-4,5-3 (correct me if I'm wrong) with a full annual leave allocation. RYR is 5-4,5-4 with about half your annual robbed to make up the 4th day (which, like so many RYR practices, is illegal). jeez, which sounds better to me?!

Good, then you should be willing to establish the facts before defending FR.

Madrid - Yea, looks like that turned out really good.:ugh:

Pay - You are right - they have not started, but they SHOULD have started right after New Year. Company is delaying the negotiation start. If you ask me, just to see how hard we would play on the Madrid issues, well, now they know. Thats just my personal opinion though.

ORANGEDRIVER

If you are a BALPA member, you got the last newsletter regarding MADRID.
And the contract has improved defintly!
When I said "Complex Matter", it is indeed. Talk to a BALPA REP or the CC. Probably then you see, why it is complex.

For the PAY: you know like I do, that MZ is gone, and our dutch COO has taken over. He will influence the pay negotiations, so he needed some time to have a look into EZY operations/finances.
I think it is fair to give him some time. Other way around BALPA would expect the same.

But you are right, the time is coming to start!:ok:

Please, what are the new terms for Madrid?

There seem to be news in that front..

Thanks a lot

...........................

Kraut - As far as I can see in the BALPA newsletter most things have NOT been dealt with. Or am I wrong here? Sick pay? Leave? LOL? What happens after first year? The roster have been improved, but is still a worse deal then you and I have, right? This was exactly what we did not want, different T&Cs, and BALPA had/have the mandate to do something about it, by the looks of things most issues have now been pushed to future negotiations (the pay negotiations were mentioned in the new letter). We are running the risk of mixing pay with "life style" - something that was a big issue in the last round of pay negotiations - The two issues should NOT be mixed, this was something most of the members agreed on.

Orangedriver - Couldnt agree with you more.
We are really playing with fire here...
This was something we did not want, and as you write, the CC got our mandate!
Also, Balpa was actually warning us of the dangers with the "Madrid contracts" in the specific Newsletter regarding Madrid!!
Still, there dont seem to be any real cause for concern within our orange ranks...:confused: :confused: :confused:

I just wish that the "Lifestyle Contract" was published prior to agreeing an alternate madrid contract. Only then can we see if we have a robust situation and a level playing field of remuneration.

Can anyone answer the original question as to which airline is next once you leave FR or EZY, and for how much more? I would have thought there would be hundreds laying testament to the advantages of having left FR once they built their 737 hours to some credible level, perhaps I am wrong, but if not, where did you go and how much better or worse is it now?

left ezy for ba to join on the 777.
simple choice between a command @ ezy with the corresponding pay and loyalty bonuses and shares or choose the lifestyle option and take the long term view.
looks like i left a lot of money at ezy but i am not bitter about it.
i like my life now. employer is actually flexible. if i need a day of for dependancy i might actually get it + i can try and arrange my roster in such a way that if i do need a day off i can bid for it.
LHR is !!!!, the longer drive and park (come to work) business is !!!!.
Shorthaul BA is worse then shorthaul EZY looking at the rosters especially when junior on the fleet.
ezy was chop and change the whole time. not enough of fo's at any one time.
looks like the situation has changed for the better because i think they were feeling it wrt wet leasing to titan and major cancellations.
so you can make the jump albeit you have to be lucky to some extent.
just got the invite for an interview with virgin :) now that got me thinking!