Emirates - The Real Deal?
 

Hi All,

I am seriously considering a move to the desert. Apart from the basic pay and conditions deal which is readily available, I would like to know what it is truly like working and living there?

What are rosters like and other work related issues?
Family life - wife, kids, schools, accommodation etc?
Culture - work and living from an expat view?
Promises - do they say one thing and do another?
Money - how much can you save and still enjoy life?
Life - leaving home and raising kids overseas - schooling etc?

Please do not post if you have not lived and worked there, I am after real information from those who have made the move and what reality really is like.

I would be going with a wife and three small children and would probably envisage a 10yr plan.

Thanks.

Do not come here thinking you can do ten years and make enough money money to go home. It won't happen. The years of making shed loads of cash in the tax free Middle East are well and truly over. Are you thinking of joining as a DEC or an FO? How many of the kids are at school?

If you are looking at joining as an FO, with a couple of kids at school, do not expect to be saving much. We have a bit over 100 aeroplanes now, and the papers are saying we will have around 154ish by 2012. So I guess that means that half the FOs in line before you will have their commands by 2012, (this is not including DECs and Captain resignations). So you may be having to live on the FO salary for some time.

Single FOs and FOs with really young kids seem to be doing OK. But once the school fees kick in, its another story.

Don

May I suggest an hour or two in the Middle East forum looking at the posts. There is a lot of negativity, however, there are many working for EK who are happy. Will depend on your current situation and lifestyle as some people hate it while others think it's paradise. If I had been living in certain parts of South America with gun crime and drugs out of control and a salary of 2000 US a month, i'd think it was paradise too. That's where many are coming from now and have been for the last year or so. With a weak dollar, your salary will be fine here but not much good in Europe / UK.

My own take on life here is generally good and the Company will look after you if there are health/ personal issues. Rules can and do change, however, and the current policy for upgrades is a mess. Apply, ask all the questions at interview that bother you most and spend several days in Dubai in your own time speaking to Pilots who've been here for at least a year or so. If married, it's a must to bring other half because happy wife = happy life! Schooling for your children will be to a good standard here ( normally 1 year ahead of UK ), cars and petrol cheap, rents crazy prices so take the Company provided accom. Pilot's club membership for family excellent value giving discounts and access to hotels / bars / clubs. Staff travel good but as F/o with family, one of you will travel down the back with kids which is poor considering status that's sold as 'management'. Future currently bright with many aircraft orders but less bright soon when the company finally realises we simply don't have enough pilots to fly them. Many trainers leaving or frustrated and everything here revolves obsessively around budgets and profit share. Benefit of previous training culture reduced considerably in the last 3-4 years ago as study is now done at home, in your own time. This compared to the past with very useful classroom days which are no more. Saves money but at what price long term I wonder. Short term greed for managers to increase their personal profit share? Most applicants now coming from corporate jobs and US regional etc. Suspect minimum experience requirements may soon be lowered / change. Not that I see that as a bad thing personally. It's the 'standard' of the applicant that's important. NOT his hours!

Much much more but i'm sure others will have their own take. As I said, some good/ some less so. Just don't mention the driving here!

Regards

BYMONEK

Are you experienced?
 

Having worked there as a F/O for a while here' s my comment on it:

1. If the policy hasn't changed you have to ask for permission to leave Dubai in your off- days.
2. The bureaucracy you have to go through after joining, ie. drivers license, family visa, mobile, etc. requires a lot of patience to say the least.
3. You are admitted to work in the country with no rights whatsoever regarding accidents, disputes or company issues.
4. The internet is censored and some features like newsgroups are not accessible.
5. You may be used to it but from my point of view the 'training' culture is disgusting. Everything you do is graded to keep the pressure up until the upgrade and this can take some time, as already mentioned.
6. The management style is authoritarian, the reporting culture is 'rule by fear and intimidation'.
7. The only positive point I can make is that line flying with people from many different countries is a rich experience and generally fine.

I'm really happy to have my life back.

Stay in OZ. Why would you want to leave? You will regret coming to an authoritarian state with autocratic management. Don't let the shiny jets and growth fool you - many have made that mistake and are now wishing they had skipped the opportunity. Both EK and QR are VERY VERY VERY BAD NEWS.

Hi Brix

Regarding 1st point. Yes, policy has changed and now permission no longer required. Not that 90% used to ask before anyway!

Your 2nd point. Agreed, but once you break the back of it within a few months it's done and dusted................at least until 3 years on from then.

Regards to the 3rd point. Agree, but only to a certain extent. Certainly nowhere near the right of re-course that you may get in a non racist and fairer society.

Point 4. Ideal for the children as I don't have concerns about them visiting 'naughty' sites. Frustrating for me though that I cant! :{

5th point. Mmm. We've all been assured of late that our policy as a Company is that of training, not checking. At the end of the day though we have to reach a required standard and it needs to be assessed. That will, or at least should be, true of every Airline. As for 'pressure', that's very subjective and will vary with the individual. Again, from personal experience, most Airlines tend to give the poor F/O a harder grilling in the sim as to some extent, rightly or wrongly, the Captain has gone through the 'mill'!

Point 6. While it may or may not be true for some, it's a difficult tag to 'sheik' off as poor management perception and distrust tends to linger for a long, looong, loooooooooong time.

Final point. That's one of the reasons i'm happy to stay. Just wish that the gang behind the door were more sociable downroute. Unfortunately,too many delsy dinners spoiling the fun!

"Unfortunately,too many delsy dinners spoiling the fun!"

I'm intrigued now, what is a Delsy dinner?

BR.

Sam,

No pension just a saving/share scheme.

Delsey diner = pot noodles in the suitcase and never leaving the room.

Ghost

Delsey dinners have got to be better than doing some corridor grazing, and yes some airline crew have been known to partake in such dining pleasures!

SNAM

Unlike the nationals who are on a final salary scheme ( 15-20 yrs max I think?), the rest of us join a provident scheme. 3 funds, A B & C. All are invested in either stocks and shares or can be placed in a cash fund.

Fund A is the companies contribution and equates to 12% of your salary per month for the first 10 years, increasing to 15% contribution after that. If you leave within the first 3 years, you lose the entire amount, 50% from 3-5 years is yours, 75% from 5-7 years and the full amount after 7.

Fund B is your compulsory contribution and equates to 5% of salary. Both of these funds invest in a very limited range of specific shares, unique to EK, and are designed to meet or exceed a pre determined target.

Fund C is a voluntary contribution fund ( AVC's) which can be any amount you wish, invested in a far more diverse range of funds available to the public.

All three funds are managed by 3 diff finance houses, Fidelity, Meryll lynch and one other whos name escapes me. What you end up with will depend on ;
your attitude towards risk, amount of contribution, length of contribution and the biggest of all.............performance of the choosen funds. Many here don't contribute to the C fund as they're not impressed with their A & B funds but the C fund is a different beast altogether and you'll need to invest in this if you're looking to gain a reasonable return. I've managed around 18% over the last 3 years which is over double the 7.5% that is 'targeted' as aggressive investment. All funds, however, are in Dollars so reality is not so good if you needed to convert the fund into sterling or Euro cash.

The bonus is that the cash is yours and you don't need to purchase a crappy annuity!

Hope this helps

BYMONEK