hopefully there will be some expat fo for the 737 since they sent me an app. maybe i can start it going.

330 pay
 

what does a F/O take home as salary? The 11 off, 3 travel days sounds too good!

any more suggest?
is it a good option this commuting contract from korean air?
the question is to that pilot now flying for korean air?
what about the cockpit enviroment?
does the expats pilot flyes only with other expat or could they be coupled to korean one?

what is the work load judgement of the expat pilot overthere?
thanks

I am interested in Capt 737 contract and would appreciate any info on current rostering and a typical work pattern ie layovers away from INC, sectors flown per day, duty times etc

Assuming you take your 11 days off per month and have 3 travel days you will work 16/17 days a month (less in February). You must have "24hrs free of duty once every 7 days". To meet these requirements a typical roster will be a maximum of 6 days on, 1 day off. Normally we do 5 or less "ON", followed by 1 "OFF". You can normally expect 3 days off in a 16/17 day roster block,and on the 737 we normally have our day off in ICN.
Layovers:- normally a max. of 2 nights away, so could be anywhere on the domestic network. Outside of Korea; Japan, Nigata & Okayama. Cambodia, Phnom Penn & Sim Reap, Thailand, Bangkok. Philippines, Manila & Cebu, Veitnam, Hanoi. Hong Kong occasionally plus others I may have forgotten or some that come up from time to time when we operate instead of the Airbus.

We fly a max. of 4 sectors a day, but can position as well. Bear in mind that the longest flight domestically is about 50 mins airborne, most are 40 mins and some can be done in less than 30 mins, all with short turnarounds (c30mins). Trips to the SE Asian peninsula all leave Korea in the evening, you then get nearly 24 Hrs off, and bring the flight back to arrive back in Korea first thing in the morning. The actual scheduling rules are a max of 13 hrs duty with a max of 8 hrs at the wheel. You will sometimes be rostered a 2 crew operation for trips that are well within the above limits, so sit back relax and enjoy the ride.
If you are worried about fatigue then don't!

capt chambo thank you for you patience to explain and to give us as much information as you can
can i ask you how is the feeling with company management and flight operations department?
does expat pilot has standby day on their roster?

whai is the failure rate at screening and the failure rate during training?
is there any prejudice against expat pilot?

are with an agency? if yes have you ever had problem with them? can you suppose that rishworth aviation is doing a good job with their expat pilot?

i forgot to ask you if you have free use of internet in your room at hyatt regency incheon hotel?

and what about laundry? is there any discount for crew member?

You have free internet in the crew room and in the room it cost about 3-4$ a day.laundry is not expensive at all.

For those asking about pay, the following website lays it all out for you. Note; I am not advocating or promoting CCL it's just they publish all the details on the web, other agencies are much the same.

CCL - Korean Air Recruitment Details

AFD
I think it is about the best commuting contract going.

It is fine on the 737, I can't speak for other fleets.

Expat. F/Os are a relatively new concept in Korean Air. At the moment there are no expat. F/Os on line on the 737 or A330, so two foreigners don't fly together, on the 777, and 747 which have had expat. F/Os for a year or so now, then I believe it does happen that two foreign pilots can be rostered to fly together.

Like any job, if you do the job the way they want, and to the best of your ability then they are absolutely fine. I have had very little dealings with my fleet chief pilots but when I have, I have found them to be fine.

No. But you may get a reserve day.

I have no idea of actual numbers or percentages, but there have been some notable cases recently where candidates were presented that were totally unsuitable so naturally they failed. Just to flesh the process out a bit, the agencies are given a list of minimum requirements which is what they then advertise. If you do not meet those requirements then the responsible agencies will not put your name forward. The less scrupulous agencies will put your name forward in the hope presumably that you may get through, and then surprise surprise the candidate fails along the way. You should make special note that Korean Air is not a "training airline", it advertises for fully qualified and experienced pilots. If the company feels that you don't meet their minimum requirements then they will fail you, either at the interview stage or during your training.

None that I have experienced.

All expats. are with agencies, it's a requirement here, you cannot be employed directly by Korean Air. I am not with Rishworth but I have colleagues who are with them and they have no complaints, and I have no complaints about my agency.

There are two crew rooms in the hotel with free internet. If you want to use the hotel's internet in your room then you will be charged KWON 5500 per 24 Hrs (about USD 3.75).

Yes there is, I forget the exact rate but it's about KRW 30,000 or USD 20.50(Inc taxes) for 30 items

Just did the sim/medical/interview this week with KE (777). The sim was straightforward. Being non-type rated on the 777 there was some adjustment factor. The KAL instructor was fairly non-committal, did not offer much advise, and very difficult to understand. However I did not find him negative in any way.
Medical is a chapter in itself, as has been described previously on this thread.
There seemed to be repetitions of many of the tests both at the KAL building and the hospital. I think my blood pressure was taken 14 times by 4 different people! Slightly elevated at first, but way down on subsequent tests.
It is unlike anything you have seen unless you have done medical in China, Japan or Korea as I understand it.
The interview was straight forward as well, 2 Korean gentlemen, a few technical questions, and a little discussion about my past experiences, barely 20 mins.
But, I have no idea how I fared on either the medical or the interview.

The attrition rate in the sim is significant, my sim partner did not make it, and judging by the list we had, there would potentially have been 8 pilots for the medical, but only 4 of us were there.
For the interview (wholly different group) there should have been up to 12 pilots, we were 3.

Very well organized by KAL, works like clockwork. Now I only have to wait and see what happens next...

good luck :ok: oceancrosser

Any Dutch pilots working for KAL via CCL to shine a light on payment/taxes ?
I am interested in the 744-Captain contract offered by CCL but I have to find out the particulars when you remain resident in Holland and get paid by CCL off shore.

rgds
.86

Chambo,
Many thanks for your very informative posts, I am seriously considering a Korean Air Contract on the 737 and need all the info I can get. I would be commuting from the UK and taking a break from my current job as the market over here is bleak at the moment. I am keen to experience a different culture and fly in the Far East. Your comments on duty hours and layovers are encouraging and I have checked the timetables for routes. I am pleased to hear that the trips to SE asia peninsula are layovers as these could be very tiring if rostered as out and backs all in one night(like we do over here, charter) I assume that sometimes you may get a few days down there if the return is not daily. The flight time limitations seem quite good and I understand you fly about 65 hours a month.
How do you find the cost of living, ie food/drink while in Korea and do your per diems cover this.

Level Buster

There are a few rotations that have a few days down route. Personally I have never had one. The law of averages says that those trips will more likely fall to the Koreans. Whereas there is no bid system for trips as such, there would be no harm in you asking the scheduler if you could do a particular trip if you wanted to. That all said what we are noticing recently are trips where you position one way, and operate the other, rather then getting time off down route. For example we used to operate from Busan to Manila, have c24hrs off then operate Manila back to Busan. Now we seem to be getting rosters that have us position from ICN to Manila, we have about 12 hrs there then operate from Manila to Busan, or vice versa.

The most I have ever done is 59hrs. The 65 hrs is the beginning of overtime IIRC. If you are used to CAP 371 then you will like the simplicity of the Korean FTLs, one thing you will find is that we have a few trips that operate like a "split duty". For example: ICN-Nigata, you get to the hotel at about 2100 hrs, and you leave the hotel the next morning at 0800 hrs.

Seoul is often cited as being among of the top 5 most expensive cities in the world. We are accommodated out at the airport, which is about 1h 15mins by bus from the centre of Seoul, which means you are pretty well stuck with eating and drinking at the hotel, or airport or locally to the hotel. Although we get meal vouchers and discounts all over the place I personally think it is expensive. The per diems are adequate, but probably shouldn't be seen as a way of "topping up" your salary.
If you didn't already know, whilst in Korea your per diems are paid in KRW, I don't actually know the rate but it works out at about USD 50-55 per day, and whilst outside of Korea you are paid in USD. The company will set up two bank accounts for you, one for your KRW and one for your USD, and you get paid your per diems by the 17th of the following month. You should also note that you don't get a per diem whilst you are "on duty".

Chambo,
Excellent insight again, much appreciated.
Is Per diem for off duty time then, and does that include time at INC as it seems that this is where you spend the most amount of time.
Also, do you know if the route network is expanding with an increase in 737 deliveries or is the current recruitment drive just a continuing replacement of crew turnover.

is there any chance to get downtown seoul by subway from hyatt hotel?
thanks

CCL contract
 

.86,

there are a couple of dutch pilots working for KAL.
I'm not dutch but also european;
pay on B744 is 13000 US$ a month plus per diem, totally average 1000 US$.
If you are over 75 h paytime you get overtime pay, but very rare...
Korean tax is payed by CCL, so that amount is already net pay.
I don't know about your taxation laws, but I personally don't have to pay tax in my country since I'm mote than 183 days away and not registered, and with the taxation agreement with Korea in force I don't have to pay any taxes.
Maybe you check it out with a tax advisor in your country.
CCL pays your salary to any nominated account worldwide and you can split it also if you want.

Hope it helps & good luck!

Level Buster

Think of it this way... whilst the clock is ticking for your duty time, it is stopped for your per diem. When you finish your trip and the duty clock stops, that's when the per diem clock starts again. As you are off duty in ICN, the per diem clock is ticking away.....

Generally the route network is expanding for the pax. fleet, and I suspect it is contracting slightly for the freighters. More specifically on the 737, we seem to be starting new routes all the time, but we lose a few too, especially when they outgrows the capacity of the 737, Incheon-Hanoi, being a recent example. The scheduled 737 deliveries include 3x-900ERs, and 1x700(BBJ), at the same time we lose 3 (I think) -800s to Jin Air KALs LoCo start up airline. The fleet size should remain broadly neutral at 30 units, with a bit of extra capacity from the -900ERs.
I don't know what's behind the present recruitment drive which is across all fleets (except the A300)BTW, but one can speculate that more crew are needed to replace retirees, and also to be in place, as and when KAL take delivery of all the 787, 777, 747-800, and A380s that are on order.

AFD

Yes but you need to change at Gimpo, you can also use the KAL Limousine Coach.

ccl contract
 

tom744

Thanks.
I do have all the ccl financial details.

Is the tax agreement with South Korea or Isle of Man /UK- your country ?
The Netherlands also has the 183 days rule but I understand there are exemptions depending where you work.
If you are not registered in your country where should you register ?

greetings
.86

TAX
 

You will get a Allien registration in Korea, the double taxation rules with most European Countries and Korea demand that you have less then 180 days in your "home" country.

To play it safe register at your Embassy in Seoul and if there are any doubts tell your the People at the Tax-Office to inquire at the Embassy how long you are there and so on.... it worked for me so far for a while. Your get 132 days per Year at home so, 365-132= 233 days out of your Residence Country, Source of income= Korea, Tax paid in Korea= No Tax in most EU-countries with double taxation agreement.

Carefull for all those who join the "Home base Programm" that can backfire if you send too much time at your base.

There is no need to pay off shore for Tax purposes but some claim they still have to do it, maybe one of the 3 Ex-Wife´s is behind his account..... Who knows.

Fly safe and land happy

NG