Kal 330
 

Took myself out of the game, got offered a job in the Sand Pit :).

Questions
 

Wonder if those in the know might assist with:
1) What are the average per diems per month? I am
using a ballpark figure of USD1200.
2) How many hours can the B744 pilots expect to fly
per month?
3) What are the B744 destinations?
4) How often do the B744 pilots position about as passengers
to and from duty, broken down into hours of positioning per month?
5) What eating establishments are nearby the Incheon hotel?
6) Is the internet complimentary for KE crews at the
Hyatt?
7) How long does the bog standard pilot's ground and line training take? A month? Three?
8) When passengering home each month, who takes
priority between pilots going to the same home base if
there are limited seats? Does seniority by date of
joining (for seat preference) apply in these
instances?
9) Does the Medical Insurance cover for in-patient and
out-patient treatment? Does it cover emergency and non-emergency
dental work, and may a pilot seek medical assistance
at his home base, or only in Korea?
10) How many days can you expect to be in the
Incheon Hyatt per month?
11) Is the hotel room vacated when away from Incheon?
I'd imagine so...
12) If per diems came to, say, US$1200 per month, does that make the take home pay US$13,200.00?
13) Is that it, or are there other components to the salary?
14) Would anyone mind providing an example of a KAL B744
pilot's roster?
PM me if you like, or perhaps just post it here.
Thanks in advance.

1) close
2) not on type
3) the world excluding Africa and s america
4) see2)
5) Thai, chicken and beer, chinese, korean
6) yes
7) 3
8) you are first in and best dressed/no to seniority
9) Check with you contract co. each one is different
10) 5-8
11) yes unless you go management
12) if your salary is 12000, yes (12000 + 1200 =13200 even in Korea)
13) occasionally a "safety bonus" but don't plan on it
14 see 2)

Maui
 

I assume you´re a teamate on the 777 (though I´m not with KAL).
Regarding your previous (and good) answers, may I disagree on some points: I don´t think the environment have such professional friendleness and fairness.
Recently a number of excelent and vastly experienced expat captains were fired without aparent reason. Some of them I know personnaly and they professional records are as good as can be. Impeccable 30 plus years careers.
TRE, TRIs for long time.
How can be that?

maui,
thanks for taking the time to reply. In an attempt to make more sense of it all, would you mind telling us which fleet you are on? Which agency would you recommend? The Isle of Man lot, the Texans, or the Kiwis (I have read your views on the fourth option so doubt you will be recommending them!)

Thanks in advance.

Tickets for days off at home base
 

Hi Maui,

Thanks for the concise answers. They are appreciated by us all.

I really should have put questions 1) and 12) this way: is the final package about $13200 a month, or are there hidden additives? You did mention a safety bonus, though the CCL/Rischworth contracts do not.

About the free tickets to a nominated home base every month, neither the CCL nor the Rischworth contracts speak of these being guaranteed, though that noun is used when describing travelling to commence a duty, and in the instance of Economy tickets four times a year on the network for family members.

It appears the monthly tickets home are either on the GD, or as a ticketed passenger, but in both cases travel is on standby basis. Is that correct, sir?

It also seems that priority between pilots travelling to the same base, and there must be a few going to Sydney each month, is on a first come first served basis. That's ok, but if someone doesn't get on and has to stay in the Incheon Hyatt another night, may I ask who pays the hotel bill please?

Finally, may I ask how many hours you fly each month on the B777 fleet? It may be representative of what sort of utilization the company is looking for in its expat pilot group, be they on the A330, B737, B777 or B744.

Knowing the answers to these and other questions goes a long way in assessing the merits of the job on offer, so thanks for your time, Maui.

Gents

Full forward. I don't quite understand the context of your comment re professionlism, friendliness etc. I thought we were discussing T&C's.
Regarding bulk firing of anyone, can you give some more detail, cos I don't know who you are referring to. If you are talking about intake or transition training, there have been a few that have fallen by the wayside, some under dubious justification.

Ndege pilot
I'm on 777. Contracted to CCL, by my choice having been ripped off unmercifully by IAC Pacific. CCL has by far the greatest number of pilots here, and also handle Alteon insructors in these parts.
Choice of contract co is vey much up to the individual, as each has some pro's and con's. A word of caution though. Once you apply and come here on interview, you are locked (for the next 5 years) into the contractor who arranged it.
You cannot come here by invitation of one, and then jump to another.

4PW's
What you see is what you get. Safety bonus or any other for that matter, is at sole discretion of KAL. Maybe they will pay one, mabe not. Maybe you'll participate in it, mabe not. For planning purposes, it does not exist.
A misconception about travel to base. It is not done by ticket. You are rostered to do it. Must travel, not subload. No offload. No seniority/priority, you are on. No accomodation costs. If you were offloaded, (I've not known that to occur in the last 10+ years), KAL would accomodate you. On a very few occasions I have heard of a lack of business class seats, requiring ecy travel home, (very rare).
Family tickets are a different story, but in my experience usually works pretty well, depending on seasonal loads.

Work on 85 + hours. I think the 744 is doing a bit more than that at the moment, but it varies a bit on a seasonal basis.

M

On ya, Maui. Thanks for the good oil.

Gents,

KAL are about to start hiring FO's via the agencies. $7500 plus and the same general T&C's as the PIC's.

Two questions.

What are your thoughts on how the locals will treat the expat right seater and;

What are the chances of getting an upgrade opportunity should one sign a contract.

respectfully,

Fliion

Hello Guys,

Any answers to the questions asked by Fliion would be nice. I am A330 rated and would like to see a different part of the world.

CEJM

Question for anyone.........

I'm an early retired American Airlines 777 driver. Fifty-five and have been out for just shy of 2 years. I am looking to get back into the game for one last look at the world and have sent the appropriate stacks of paperwork to GAP. Has anyone got a bead on if KAL is still looking for 777 drivers and whether or not they are currently and actively seeking 777 Captains? If yes, any idea on numbers needed and time frame for impending interviews?
Thanks in advance.

Torqrol

Hey Torq,

Lot of recruiting going on.

Continuous hiring till 2009, so says CCL, et al.

You might want to poll Maui direct.

He's on the 777 and has the good oil on all things KE.

Good luck.

4PW's

Much obliged, 4PW......


Torqrol

Anyone knows if Rishwoth Aviation is associated with IAC Pacific or any other reason to avoid them?

They also have some contracts for the 737

Unrated pilots
 

Hi all. Been reading this thread with excitement, not often you read a thread that has no or little moaning on this site. So now to my questions...

1)I'm a 737NG captain, but I'm more interested in a 747 F/O job than going to the 737 fleet. Is this crazy? Probably. But is it possible, or are they only taking rated F/Os?

2)I´ve only read the package for 744 drivers, but is it the same for 737s? Can you choose any base no matter fleet?

3)What's the bond like? I know it's a 5 year contract, but surely they can't bond you for that long?

4)Are you only away 17 days? I can't get the maths right,
17 on +9 off + 2 lve + 1 sick doesn't fill a whole month for me, what about the last few days? What's the story with this sick day, are they counting on you pulling a sickie one day a month? What about if you're actually sick for 12 days, will you not get any sick days then?

Enough questions for now... back to yous in the know! (tnx maui!)
Cheers

Mr Maui.

You are the best source of info on KAL, thank you for your time.

Could you please shed some light on these issues (777 with CCL):

1. How many travel days around the 11 days off (9+2)?
2. Is there a culture of f/o's reporting expat capt's?
3. Can one obtain extra days off for less cash?
4. Is there golf close to ICN hotel, if yes, how much?
5. Looked at pics of hotel gym, is it ok?
6. Are different days off cycles available?
7. What is the failure rate for sim & line training?
8. Are the ppc's realistic or 1970's survival exercises?

Thank you for the help.

Going to Korea...
 

I am a current LTC 737NG capt. Wonder if there is LTC oportunities in Korea. Also living in Thailand (commuting) and working on this contract, is that an option?

How is the roster really like? Do you ONLY fly with Locals?

Tor.

gooday mate, I am a qantas guy happy in my employment with a query. Do any of your expats on contract actually live in korea with family and embrace the culture as best they can? I see a lot of posts about different companies with a fly in fly out commute mentality. If I made a move then my girl and I are more interested in living in a community and taking on all of the new experiences that a different culture would bring, most importantly learning a new language. regards

:ok:sorry that was supposed to be a pm to maui

On the Korean five year contract there is only one figure for monthly pay. Is there a yearly raise throughout the contract?

A310Capt
 

Maui is 100% accurate. I worked with PARC + FSB/Alteon from 2000 ~ 2005, then with CCL + Alteon till july of last year, both periods at KAL Flt Crew T.C. in ICN; CCL is 1000 times a better agency than PARC Aviation in every aspect, as far as I'm concerned, and I see Mr. Hitch as a very organized and corteous person. Never leaves you without a response and extremely supportive. CCL never delayed my payment even by half-a-day. Regarding commuting, though our contracts were very similar to the KAL's pilots and - along 6.5 yrs of commuting life (mine was a long one, as I live in Rio de Janeiro!!!) - I was seldom left without a (business class) seat. On the few times it happened - always due to force majeure reasons - KAL and/or Boeing Travel always took care of everything, either at once or later refunding any expenses incurred. KAL is one the most powerful and solid airlines I have ever seen and the training center resources are 1st class, including the Teledyne Debrief System for most fleets. I trained and checked many "generations" of their pilots and had very few problems working with them, though (1) language barrier is indeed a factor, sometimes more than in China and (2) one has to understand the "secluded culture" that used to exist in Korea. Once you get used to it and manage to gain their trust, it becomes a bit easier. Along those years, my point-of-view is that the airline has improved in many senses and the management heavily invests to improve the training, the infrastructure etc. The Hyatt is by far better hotel than the Ramada Songdo, where Alteon instructors stay while on 19-days rotation. Hope these informations help. Should anybody need any other feedback from the Training Center and/or preemployment processes, I will be pleased to send additional info. Good luck to everyone.

and again; anyone offering a roster to see
 

Thankyou for adding some extrafuel on the matter A310,
Ive just seen some offerings with rishworth, any comments on this agency?,
Also, could someone please show us a normal roster schedule on the 744, even on 777, would be appreciated, its been very demanded on the thread.:
Regarding days at ur base. If at your base u get to fly with your equipment, does that mean ull get to be more days at home, say for eg, resting days also at ur base, or once u leave ur base u aint coming back until off days commence?,
Cheers,;)

A310
 

Good post.
However, I would like to go back to one of my posts. It still very discouraging to apply for KAL, given the lack of an established pattern on their assessment system.
There are a multitude of stories involving several very professional, extremely experienced captains being fired without any apparent reason, by normal standards.
It happened recently and I know personally some of the captains involved: they had impeccable, 30 plus years careers and were failed, at different stages, for absolutely no serious reason.
One fleet manager even destroyed a checkride report sheet he did not "liked"!:confused: He explained to the confused foreign captain that the checkpilot pushed too hard and disregarded the checkride!
Of course there are people happy with KAL for many years. But the environment is unique on the lack of "reasonableness".

PS.: I have to say I had never been involved in any screening/interview/training with KAL.

Anyone have info about the new foreign F/O positions? How long will it take to upgrade to Capt?

Borderline stupid question here but are the new F/O's going to be 'locked' into the right seat forever? I overheard in the customs line for crew @ LAX there's a lot of opposition by the local flight crew union.

Otherwise the regular contract sounds like a pretty good deal...still searching for the other requirement: 500hrs of PIC

Also, what's the "Korean procedure" is this something actually being practiced on the line or is it just bum scoop?

Warmly, Rice

Contact Direct Personnel who are also recruiting for KEL [email protected] +3538138400 and ask for Barbara or Niall, good luck!!:ok:

Matai
 

I've been looking into Rishworth and have a couple of buddies who are with them on contract. They seem pretty good - no payment issues and good response time. I see they are offering non type DECs on the 777 and 744. Does anyone know anything?

Does anyone have any experience with Euro-Pacific Aviation out of Melbourne as a contracting company for KAL?

Hello,

Looks like the requirement for type on 777 or 747 is no longer necessary for Capt, according to Rishworth Aviation. Anyone use them for the application, so far? I'm trying to determine if the contract for Korean Air is better than the opportunities I've been offered in the ME, and so far it seems to be. Has anyone out there worked in both areas and willing to pass along info?
I'm currently on the Airbus but according to the Rishworth site, it's possible to transfer over to the Boeing as Capt. Thanks, for any info.

What bases are they offering?

Commutable from anywhere in their system.

B777 fo for KAL?
 

Hello guys,
so many discussions abt hiring capt, does KAL hiring B777 FO?
what is CCL by the way? hiring agent?, www pls :)

[email protected]
James Rye is the contact.

CANPA
 

Guys, Direct personnell is now accepting applications on behalf of Korean Air. Can anyone shed some light on the 737NG contract. Thanks....

CANPA I would strongly recommend that you use the agency mentioned in "oefag's" post.
The T&C's have all been covered before ad naseum. If you do a search through the "South Asia and Far East" forum you should find plenty of information.
In a nut shell...... training takes about 12 weeks, including 10 days off at home, you will be on training pay of $6500pcm.
Once on line your salary rises to c$9500pcm, and you should get a $3000 one off bonus on completion of your line check. You will be entitled to take 9 days off at home +2 leave days off every month ensuring that you can have at least 11 days off per month at home. The company will provide you with a free business class seat (upgradable to first) to travel home for your time off, and to travel back to Seoul. (Let me just clarify the seat on KE is on their network, if you don't live at the end of their network any other tickets are your responsibility!).
At work you are based in Seoul, and accommodated at the Hyatt Regency Hotel at Incheon. You will operate either from Incheon, or from Gimpo. In either case free transport is available. You will fly approx. 5/6 days on and then have 24hrs free of duty, before repeating the cycle. You will do about 55Hrs per month on a mix of domestic, and International flights. Hotel accommodation and transport is all provided when on duty.
You will receive a per diem paid either in Korean Won, or USD depending on your destinations and that comes to approximately USD1000 pcm.
On the 737 fleet you will cover Korea, Japan, China (no lay overs), Taiwan, Hong Kong, Russia, Veitnam (lay over), Cambodia (lay over), Manila (lay over) and probably a few others too, the route network is expanding rapidly!
You will fly -800's (with or without winglets) and -900's. The First Officers are all Korean and are a very pleasant bunch.
That should give you a flavour of the job, but if you have any specific questions fire away!

Hello Everyone.

I am Canadian and I speak Korean.
I just got hired by Korean Air (no agency) as an FO with local guys starting in a few month. I am not sure which aircraft I will be on, yet. I am hoping to get on the 737.

Is the schedule pretty much same as the local guys? I would assume that they will treat me same as the local guys. I will be moving to Korea. And how do you study for the license conversion? I asked around but I can't find the air law books in English.

Thank you. :)

Not completely familiar with the T&Cs for the local pilots but what little I do know is that it is very different to the contract for the foreign pilots.
Korean Air will hold your hand through the Air Law exam, don't worry.

Thank you for the reply.

Well... that's the thing. I was told that it's on my own to convert the licenses.
Do they give you any hand outs for the exams?

Does KAL hire folks with a heavy jet type even though the type is NOT for one of the aircraft they are hiring into? I'm interested in an FO slot, but I am not rated on the 744, 777, or 737NG. My type is on the DC-10.

Thanks for the help!
Skyward80

hi guys

can anybody tell me where the A330 is flying to? do you get minimum rest at layover?

Anybody here work for KAL?