Over 60? So long.
 

European Air Transport today fired all pilots over 60 years of age and very charitably gave them 3 months notice.

Thank you France.

Maybe Mr. Meeson was right!

Now, I'm not trying to be rude to anyone here - BUT;

Why on earth would anyone over 60 want to keep working ?
Particulary in this environment which is so damaging to your health.
( Unless you've been unfortunate enought have a financial / family tragedy in recent years, it seems a sad way to spend your life)

One of the things you won't be saying to yourself on your death bed is "my, I wish I'd worked a few more days in my life"

All most no pilot who is over 60 would WANT to carry on working, there are plenty however who have no choice but to continue . Not everyone has the comfort of large pensions to live on and many people due to family circumstances have a need for an income well past 60. A little more understanding please.

Hey fellas - there are legions of guys who have turned 60 who still enjoy flying, and would like to continue.
No really.

Yep , good points.
With reflection, I thought about removing my post.
But then those posts after wouldn't make sense.

Apologies , I didn't think it through fully.

Gidday,

At the fine old age of 62, still able to instruct on Jet simulators, able in a small way to contribute my so called wisdom to the masses and actually still learning in the process.

Age alone should not be a barrier to anyone doing anything that we are capeable and competent to continue to do.

I found retirement too busy, so took up a full time job to get the weekends off.

As to line flying, why not if you can and the employer is willing, I miss the flying but dont miss the dark nights and storms of the Bay of Bengal one little bit.

There is a chance of a DC-3 being in need of a part time F/O, so I may grumble around as I did in the 60s, full circle on Airline types, within meters of where I first learned to fly.

Old age and cunning is better than some of the alternatives.

:ok: :ok:

State interference continues unabated
 

If a pilot is fit and able to pass a Class 1 Medical, is able to pass his sim rides/aircraft check rides and can walk to the aircraft unaided then it is no damn business of ANYONE else if he/she wishes to continue to fly/work/enjoy him/her self.
Please gentlemen, whatever your personal opinion just remember that we are all individuals and we all 'tick' in a different way.
Long live freedom of choice!

Isn't there an Anti Discrimination law in the EU? To my knowledge pilots may fly up to 65 in most EU countries.

It may have escaped the notice from some of our younger less experienced brothers, that there are a lot of us who actually enjoy flying, have always done so and always will. It is not a job more of a vocation.

Well..
 

For how long do you think the world (wich actually includes the airline industry..) can keep up pensions and retirement sceemes for a population that live longer and are healthier by the year?

Why should we not have to adjust retirement age continously?

And I know many 60 year olds that just love their work.. still :}

Surely most of us are in this game because we enjoy it - I speak to a lot of young airline-pilot hopefuls, and don't hear many saying "I want to become an airline pilot because of the money and so that I can retire early", most do it because they want to fly. Surely that doesn't change at 60?

I've known a few people flying into their 80s, by that point they usually had to pay for it themselves, but they still wanted to fly.

Speaking for myself, whilst still well short of 60, I'm in this game so that I can be paid by other people for playing with expensive toys. I can't see my view on that ever changing.

Which is all a bit off-topic anyhow. Back on-topic, surely we should be approaching a stage in time where we should accept that people get retired when either (a) they are old enough and want to, or (b) they can't do the job any more. Society can't afford all these people being retired at 60 (ye gods, some people are still taking early retirement at 55!).

G

A300BOY
 

We have some crew menbers over 60 here at Eat who put us younger colleagues to shame. One of them runs 3 to 4 miles on every day stop down route after a full night of flying they are amongst the best operators we have.
Dont forget that all the other pilots have to adjust there financial planning to retiring at 60 now and one or two pilots came to Eat as it had a retirement age of 65.
A very sad affair which I understand is due to a change in the rules in France and possibly Italy and Scandinavia in the near future.
I hope they find a solution and the individuals concerned are dealt with in a caring and fair way.

I am sure there are people over 60 who still enjoy the job, perhaps years of the seemingly unending grind and hassle of ultra short haul from LHR have soured my view. I can´t see why anyone would do carry on doing what I do past 60 unless they had to, I would retire tomorrow if I could. Perhaps I need a change of company and location to put the enjoyement back into it.

As has already been stated above, some of us actually still enjoy flying, after all who wants a 'proper job' ! (whatever that is)?
As a further incentive to keep passing the medical/flight proficiency checks some of us have been thru' :
a) Divorce-only the lawyers win.
b) We sank our pension money into a GAR with Equitable Life! Q-When is a guarantee not a guarantee? A-When it's issued by Equitable Life! Meanwhile our legislators continue to vote themselves gold-plated pensions whilst ignoring this scandal.
c) We served up to 12 years in the military & left prior to 30th.March 1975 without a pension. Moral-I should have joined the Wehrmacht, they are still paying pensions to those who served in WWII but the fourth richest economy(or is that China now?) seemingly cannot reward it's former military personnel for their service? Kipling had it right all those years ago!!!!!!!!!!
And as for having to sell your house to pay for care!, well words fail me:mad: :mad: :mad:

PS: Life's a bitch ain't it!

Yes Max Angle short haul does become a great pain in the arse!
Great for the young family man but after that forget it. I've done both over nearly forty years.
Only checking in about three/four times a month opens up all the places you can live and therefore have a lovely home in an area you want to be. Big dependable aeroplane going intercontinental, nice hotel, different climate, choices of food, hopefully a friendly crew to socialise with, huge choice of shops if you want to buy specialist items, the list is endless.
Get home, wife happy to have had a few days to herself, now a few days in holiday mode with you, (re-arrange if single!). Never there for measles, chicken pox, mumps, dishwasher and washing machine failure.
The icing on the cake is long haul freighters!

60+
 

hello every one,

i am lost on this one? why is eat doing this, as, if i understand it, icao will implement the age rule change from 60 to 65 in november 2006 at their general assembly meeting in montreal? france & italy can & will of course ask to be exempted, but will only be able to enforce it for their french/italian companys. i might be wrong on this of course. but, living in france, which is quite nice by the way, as a foreigner, i always wonder why the french/italians & the british for that matter, want to do things differently than the rest of europ?

kind regards,

bm

When I was being brought up, Britain wasn't part of Europe - just an Island near it.

No excuse for the French of-course!

G

As previously stated one of the reasons people wish to work beyond 60 is purely financial.

As an esteemed long term (still going at age 67 on 24/7 shift, not flight crew though)aviation industry colleague of mine unashamedly proclaims he is a multiple victim of the AIDS phenonemon.

Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.:p

Airspeed Alive

I served in RAF for 12 years, retiring in Sept '76. I do not receive a pension for this: is there something I should know?
I'm one of those 'retired' (at 62 when I'd trained replacement) who, due to multiple marriages and pension 'earmarkings', need an income.

rts

As the DO is also 60+ is he going to?
Nice way to get rid of a lot 757 captains now that 2 757's are leaving the EAT fleet

yes but arent they getting two A300 as a replacement?

Add portugal to the 60 Age Rule
 

Thank God that in Portugal we still have the 60 Age Rule. Although, when my time comes it shouldn't me there anymore.

Working past 60 only on long haul, medium&short haul are way too much pain in the a%$&% to do it past that age.

And , by the way, if you have a nice climate, nice food and wine, why bother getting up at 3 in the morning somewhere in an european hotel....

Check Six krueger...

Wow... how depressing you are... I hope you are in another field of endeavor. If not get out while you can.

Quote:

---

if i understand it, icao will implement the age rule change from 60 to 65 in november 2006

---

http://www.icao.int/icao/gifs/lineblue.gif

AGE LIMIT FOR FLIGHT CREW

Amendment 167 to Annex 1

The ICAO Council adopted on 10 March 2006 an amendment to Annex 1 — Personnel Licensing that increases by five years the upper age limit for commercial pilots operating two-pilot aircraft. The new provisions become applicable on 23 November 2006 and read as follows:
2.1.10.1 A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, shall not permit the holders thereof to act as pilot-in-command of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 60th birthday or, in the case of operations with more than one pilot where the other pilot is younger than 60 years of age, their 65th birthday.
2.1.10.2 Recommendation.— A Contracting State, having issued pilot licences, should not permit the holders thereof to act as co-pilot of an aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations if the licence holders have attained their 65th birthday. Practical effects
Article 33 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation (signed in Chicago, it is often quoted as the ‘Chicago Convention’) limits the international recognition of flight crew licences to those who are in full compliance with the Standards of Annex 1 (note that paragraph 2.1.10.1 is a Standard). As a result, until 23 November 2006, even if an individual State authorizes a pilot-in-command (PIC) to fly in commercial air transport operations when over the age of 60 (65 from 23 November) that authorization can only be given for flights within that State’s national airspace. This is because no State can force another State to accept its own deviation from an ICAO Standard. Article 33 does not apply to the co-pilot as paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard.
Articles 39 and 40 of the Convention are also relevant to the age limit of pilots-in-command engaged in commercial air transport operations as they authorize international flights by flight crew who do not meet all international licensing Standards, provided that an authorization is given by each State into which the aircraft is operated.
In practice, this means that if a pilot in command is under the age specified in paragraph 2.1.10.1 (60 years at present and 65 from November 2006) he cannot be prevented by reason of age from operating into any ICAO Contracting State. Further, once he has reached the specified age, he may still operate as PIC, subject to certain conditions:

1. his/her national Licensing Authority permits it; and,
2. operations are undertaken only in national airspace; unless,
3. another State has given specific authorization that such flights are permitted in its airspace.

A State may wish to impose a lower maximum age limit than that specified by ICAO in 2.1.10.1. It may do this for the licenses it issues, but, as stated above, it cannot prevent an aircraft operated by a PIC holding a licence from another State, who is below the ICAO upper limit, from operating in its airspace.
For co-pilots, since paragraph 2.1.10.2 is a Recommendation, not a Standard, the upper age limit is set by the national Licensing Authority which can choose to impose any national age limit on the licenses it issues, as there are no international restrictions based on age for co-pilots.
When over 60, a six-monthly medical examination will be necessary (ICAO specifies an annual medical for those under 60 years who are engaged in two-pilot operations). For single-pilot commercial air transport operations, the upper age limit remains at 60 years.
Most of the States that have authorized their pilots to fly as pilot-in-command in commercial air transport operations after they reach the age specified in 2.1.10.1 also authorize pilots holding a license issued or validated by another States to fly in their own airspace under the same condition. However, ICAO does not collect information on States authorizing pilots to fly in their airspace after reaching the age of 60 and cannot provide information on the subject. Pilots seeking such information are advised to contact individual Civil Aviation Authorities.

http://www.icao.int/icao/en/trivia/peltrgFAQ.htm

The retirement age in France is 60 for everybody,even we have a pre- retirement at 55. Then why do you think pilots have to retired after 60 ??

A300BOY
The pilot to whom you refer (runs 3-4miles every day) does a lot more than that :)
At 53 he did the international ironman (4k swim 160k bike, & marathon!)
Also, he didnt start flying (his boyhood passion) until age 43.....so 61 is not that far into his flying career.

Its very easy to brush over everyone with cliches.....but you need to walk a few miles in the other chaps shoes to really know whats going on.

I wish them all well in court!

Well, I've just retired from the left seat at 65 and have just renewed my Class One medical with not a single problem.

I guess that some of us are just as young as we felt when we were 40!

I would like to continue till I am medically fit and able. Either I can stand on my own two feet or.....

@silberfuchs
sorry to say but the "offer" to continue to fly when renouncing the legal action is a piece of ****!
The offer includes moving to the right seat until the end of the year.
If the French do not change their mind by Nov 23 with regard to ICAOs ruling then the company can fire you without any compensation.
What a deal!!
And, by the way, this offer was not even given to all!

So, the show goes on and they will have to pay, this is what the Belgian Constitution stipulates.:}

Silberfuchs

Not sure why you mention DHL, they have nothing to do with the action, they just provide EAT the business. They dont care who flys their aircraft!:\