Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

:D :D :D :D :ok:

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Joetom, there is widespread unease throughout BA about the proposed changes and indeed a suspicion that the company pitch for the changes is somewhat one-sided.

Whether it'll ever be possible to get all the unions to present a united front on this is a moot point.

However, people are most definitely not asleep!

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Thats the worst 'Oirish accent' I've ever read.
I'll write a suitably indignant posting about your obvious racist mentality later...:}

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Would somebody like to remind me how many years BA took a pensions holiday since privatisation.
Also would someone like to spell out the salaries and benefits of the BA Directors since Lord King.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

The old scheme, APS part 6, "enjoyed" an employers contrubutions holiday for 15 years. Even then it was so massively in surplus that BA had their beady eyes on in it 2000 to prop up NAPS. That proposal was demolished but not until after huge legal costs paid out from the scheme. NAPS , the "new" scheme started in 1984 has never had a holiday.

I also believe that Rod Eddington & John Rishton had pensions which accrued at twice the rate of NAPS.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

In response to M Mouse re valuation of Assets

Revaluation of Property was effectively stopped in 1999 by FRS15. If BA does revalue then it would have to repeat the exercise every 5 years in full & every year at high level. Roughly this would cost £1-2m a year in fees (My personal guess not BA figures), and would not bring in any CASH to put into pensions etc.

Slots that have not been purchased can not be shown on the Balance sheet, and those that have would be subject to the same rules as property.

Hope this helps explain the position

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

BA Beancounter your the same dude that shoots everyone down on the intranet forum:mad: :mad: Not gonna work for much longer:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

DA DOG I'm not sure how I've offended you by trying to explain the accounting law or who exactly I'm shooting down.

The pension's problem won't be solved by revaluing assets or any such trickery.

Only generating more cash to put into the fund will help.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Spoken like a true manager BA BEANCOUNTER

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Thank you!

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

It may not bring any cash to put into NAPS, but it would certainly improve BA's net asset value in relation to it's market capitalisation (which is increasing all the time in recent weeks, BTW). Something which BA itself draws attention to when trying to 'spin' to us all how bad things are.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Ah BA spin! Every silver lining has a cloud. Well I'm not going to try to defend it.

Net assets as a percentage of Market capitalisation is close to meaningless as a measure of anything.

It does however LOOK like it means something, so it can be used to make things look good or bad depending on the message you want.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Well, that's almost an admission that BE was on the right track, to my mind. We certainly know what message BA has been spinning.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

Like I said I'm not defending spin, I've had to sit through JR telling us how dire every thing is every quarter, but somehow we're now the world's most profitable airline!

On the other hand, some of the counter spin is just as bad.
"BA has a huge cash pile" - Half of which is Passenger's money for flights they haven't yet flown
"one years debt repayment would clear the deficit" - A) the bank's want their cash back & B) M&S tried to deal with their defict by borrowing rather than adressing the basic imbalance in their scheme, all this did was waste £400m

so both sides are picking the stats to suit their purpose, big surprise.

Unfortunately there are only two solutions

Some-one pays more in (Employee, Employer or Govt)
Every-one takes less out

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

On the other hand, lending money is how they make their own profits.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

BA_BEANCOUNTER

Thank you for sticking your head above the parapet I am sorry it was shot off!

It wasn't what I wanted to hear but I do like to know the facts and your answer was useful.

Intelligent debate is rare in these quarters!

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

By the way, for those that think the pilots who have recently joined would be against a strike then:

1. Part of the dispute is to better their pension?
2. If we lose FSS, then it will probably take them mush LONGER to be a Captain as most of the Captains will be working past 55 to make up their pension. They stand to lose a lot also?

I speak as a 2nd-career SFO (facing another 10 years in the right seat) on NAPS where point 2 above applies to us middle/Lower-roaders on the seniority.


So I think the backing for a strike will be overwhelming imho.

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

But only if they get their repayments. My point is that a company can't unilaterally decide not to repay it's loans on schedule without serious consequences. Just the same as if I told my mortgage company to go whistle for a year.

BA could borrow the money, but this has been tried elsewhere (M&S), and unless the structure of a pension scheme is changed, the problem just resurfaces at the next actuary's valuation, and you've got the interest payments on the debt as well.


Can I make a subtle but important change to my first reply to you

The net assets of the COMPANY as a percentage of Market cap is irrelevant.
This is what would change when you revalue assets

The net asset of the PENSION FUND as a percentage of Market Cap does have some value in showing the risk to shareholders of a companies obligations.

The most important measure you can get form published accounts is size of deficit divided by FREE cashflow. (Best estimate is operating cashflow less net interest less Depreciation) as this shows how many years it would take to pay off the deficit without hurting the operation, and really does show if "BA can afford to pay"

Re: BA pilots 'prepared to strike'
 

BA-BC
Appreciate the inputs.
With ref to your last para would you care to venture an anonymous non-attributable view on whether or not 'BA can afford to pay'.
You have weathered the storms so far - a bit more turbulence won't hurt :)

Sorry, been away contributing to my 900..... :zzz:

Noticed this gem a couple of pages back re short notice hires:

The insurers will probably beg to differ as there won't be anyone available to give the new hires the minimum line sectors to be signed off with an approval to work to a recognised set of SOPs. This is a requirement of the operations certificate. Basically, everyone at a particular company has to sing from the same hymn sheet SOP wise, so odds and sods arriving from all over the world would require several sims and several line sectors before they could operate together. The theory's good but as HS said, we're irreplaceable in a hurry!!