Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Hi guys,

First of all i'm not sure if I should be placing this in the questions forum or here so don't shoot me down please. My question to all of you experienced pilots out there is. I'm currently in a position where my company wants me to go for command in the turboprop company I work for. It's a well known company who flies 23 tonne plus modern turboprops and of course it's nice to move up to the next level. However most of the guys I work with who are in the same position are leaving by the week for jet jobs else where. I'm just wondering what you would do if you were in my position. As a little background you could say age is on my side as I'm still only 25 and I must say I really enjoy the TP flying and the challenges it brings with it at times. In terms of pay it would probably bring me above a new joiner jet SFO although the difference would be negligable. However, recrutiment at the moment as you know is excellent and I'm worried in case another downfall happens and I miss the boat as such. What would you do?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Depends where you want to end up at the end of your career. Do you want to fly jets because if you do then jumping to the likes of BA (purely as an example of a seniority based airline - no bashing please) then you can join the back of the queue now and take 9 years plus to command or be in the left seat for as long as you like now then join the back of the queue with 9 years plus to command (prophesising about future time to left seat ignored). Of course not all jet airlines have such a rigid seniority system...
Staying where you are means more great flying and responsibility at a young age - bonus. Negative means it will probably be harder to take when you move back to the right seat and join a very long queue of 'whippersnappers' left seating ahead of you. Also after some years as a TP Capt your salary will increase so you will not be talking bout equivalent pay but in taking a pay cut - bearing in mind you will probably have more responsibilities then (Kids:ooh: ??)
Is money more imoprtant or quality of life / hands on flying?
Do you want to move or are you happy where you are?(A TP salary goes a lot further up north than a jet one down south)
I personally want more money so will move to a bigger 'plane. A lot of Capts at my company are happy where they are and will probably retire from this (regional) company.
Bottom line is what everyone else would do isn't really relevant - my idea of fun is adrenaline so freefall parachuting is great whereas some people would remove limbs rather than do that so my statement of what is fun is useless as it is totally subjective - same goes as to whether you should move - only you can decide.
Nice position to be in so young though:ok:

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Difficult one, but many are having to take the same decision over the next few months. If only we had that crystal ball to tell us will the same opportunities be there to progress onto Jets next year!!!

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

If you have been offered a jet job I personally would take it - if its the airline you want to be in and get your place on the senority ladder. You have age on your side to sit there and work your way up, and learn all there is to know about your new jet, and new routes - the time will soon go by.
If you have not been offered a jet job do the command course and keep sending out your c.v. May take time for that job to come along and in the meantime keep logging the command time!!
Tough call without the crystal ball.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

From the way in which you have phrased your thread, you have not yet applied to move on? Why not have your cake and eat it. Take the LHS [no additional bonding??] enjoy 12+ months, and start sending out your CV having had 6 months in command if that is really what you want. At least then you have the option.
If however, your overwelming desire is LHS of a shiny jet, then start applying now. The sooner you are on the seniority ladder, the sooner the chance of the LHS.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

I had a similar dilema at about the same age 9 years ago.

I applied for a job on a shiney jet but later decided to take the TP Command and withdrew my application. Once the novelty (and that's all it is!) wore off a couple of years later, I re-applied to the same Company, where I joined 100 places further down the seniority list.

My advice would be to take the Jet Job whenever offered but obviously take the command in the meantime. If the only option in Ryanair though, I'd stay where you are!

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Got to say, make the most of both worlds. If you haven't been offered the jet job yet then take the command job until something on jets comes up. Then again depends where you want to end up? It's easier to move back to the TP after getting some jet time than to turn down a jet job and spend the next 2years trying to get another offer. Just my 2p's worth.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Shanwick Shanwick is offering the best advice. I too had exactly the same dilema and went for the TP command - in retrospect it was not a smart move. I went onto become a Line Trainer but frankly I would have been much better working my way up a seniority list. When you get to the jet world you will discover, with some horror, that a 200 hour cadet is regarded in greater esteem than someone who has 2000 hours turbine. It is almost as if you are starting again and the depressing truth is that TP time is not really held in much esteem. Jet time is 'where it is at' in the eyes of many senior managers in jet airlines (they themselves were 200 hour cadets once!). That is not to say I agree in any way with the policy but the harsh facts are nonetheless there for all to see. My strong advice would be to get into a jet job at the earliest moment and if that means foregoing a turboprop command then do it! Obviously it is nice if you can get the command and the jet job a short time later but do not give up a jet job if you can help it.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Go for the jet job, many moons ago was offered command on the DC6 or flight engineer Boeing 707, went with the jet job,turned down the prop command, never regreted my choice. The FE position went to right seat DC9 within two years then left seat HS 748 and after another three years left seat DC9. Do realise progression isnt so quick now but sure enjoyed the many seat changes early in my career, the jet was so much more fun two fly than the Avro though.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

It really depends on one thing - lifestyle. Do not be swayed by the nice shiney jet if the company does not offer a good lifestyle as the shine will very quickly disappear. You are young and opportunities will continue to come your way, but do not take the first jet job offered unless it fits in with your asperations.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Thanks for all the replies. The general consensus seems to be to leave for a jet job. Parkfell asked if taking command would involve a bond. Unfortunately the answer is yes it would although it is a reducing one on a monthly basis from the day of your line check. I'll have to make a decision soon, but once again thanks for the input.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

I agree with the general gist of the posts above. It has to be an individual decision based on your career goals and lifestyle choices. It sounds to me like you want to ultimately fly jets. If that is the case I would view your choices from a business sense point of view. Make the choice based on a strategy; if you want to fly LHS, say 747 for BA or Virgin, then you have to come up with a strategy that will get you the required hours/ experience that will make you marketable to these airlines. Plan out the various routes to that LHS and estimate timescales. Come up with first choice and backup routes to that seat.

I know guys who have been in your position who have allowed their heart to make the decision for them without really appreciating the market forces that may come into play later. As Norman Stanley Fletcher comments, becoming a TP Captain and then Training Captain is not doing you as many favours as you would think it might if you are still dreaming of that LHS on a 747. With a seniority based system I always think you are better joining at the bottom ASAP and doing your time. Sure you will not get as much enjoyment as flying into the Highlands and Islands airports, but, I assume that if your plan is LHS 747 then ETOPS and Newark would be more of what appeals to you anyway! The TP and command experience will always benefit you personally, but will not help in the career goals in the short term (ie it will benefit you long term if you apply to become a trainer with your jet outfit, but you will lose years whilst waiting for the left seat of the jet).

I was faced with a not dissimilar choice last year; The opportunity for command arose, pretty much out of the blue, with my chosen employer, but on a different fleet. Many guys more senior than me decided that they didn't want to move onto a smaller aircraft (737) and give up longhaul (767). This meant that they worked their way down the seniority list to find pilots who would be willing and that's where my chance came. I grasped the opprtunity and have never looked back. Why? Well, jet command for one, sure, but a bit more than that too. The opportunity to move back (as a captain) to the 757/767 (or whatever replaces them) will arise in a few years (minimum 2 I reckon), with the associated mix of charter/ longhaul (my preference). Pay is the other obvious factor; circa £25k pay increase in year one as a captain, whatever fleet. Add to this increased pension, loss of licence and health insurance benefits and the sacrifice of a few years of lifestyle choice (longhaul) seemed well worth it.

The biggest factor for me, which equally applies to you though, is the fact that you DON'T HAVE THAT CHRYSTAL BALL and don't know what the future holds. Another 9/11 or economic downturn etc could happen which halts expansion. You could well be leaving the security of your turbo-prop (seniority?) position and exposing yourself to cost cutting at the bottom of a jet seniority list. However, my decision was that if I (like many) had opted to bide my time in the RHS until my 'fleet of choice' command came up then any downturn could see my career command plans put back years.....

In your position I would say that now is a reasonably good time to be joining a jet seniority list. What I mean is that we are into expansion and recruitment and the best time to join is at the start of that cycle due to last in first out principles. In a previous employer I got my first jet job at the tail end of a high recruitment period, then 9/11 hit and my job was history......... you have not managed to time your jet job plans to be in at the start (I know, like me it is more the cycle occuring around your career rather than you planning your career around the economic cycle), so the longer you wait over the ext few years the more chance you have of joining at the start of the downturn (some may argue that with consumer debt so high that the next downturn may already be starting).

Anyhow, hope this has given you a few more things to consider.

Good luck with your choices.

PP

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

I went for a Command course on a Dash-8 in ´99, six month later I´ve got overed a F/O job on A320 and went for it.
Now I have around 4000h on A320 and A330 as F/O and I really enjoyed it and there ist always a job somewhere for an Airbus driver.
A friend of mine stayed as CPT on the Dash for another 5 years, now he is on the F70/100 since last summer.
If you go for the command and in a few years you descide to go for a new job on a jet, you will start right where you are now.

So take the jet.

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

So, everybody here seems to go for the jet option. Yes, but any jet??? I personnally have the choice between command on the same TP aircraft as Foggydownhere and FO with real quick upgrade on a bizjet -- large business aviation company though. So???:confused:

Re: Turboprop command or Jet FO
 

Treetopflyer, obviously no one can make that decision for you. It really depends on your personal set of cirmumstances.

A few points to consider:

- do you like your present employer?
- are you happy with your base?
- do you make enough money to comfortably live on?
- do you think your employer is in a solid financial state and offeres good job security?

If you answer yes to all of the above questions I don´t think you need to move. Size/type of aircraft should come second to quality of life I think.

Also remember that that quick command you were "promised" at the "not too dificult to guess" large biz-jet company is not a guarantee. You will still have to go through their command assesment and you might fail it. Don´t get me wrong, not talking about your qualifications or abilities, just saying it does happen, even to previous captains.

If you are not happy with your pleasent lot for any of the above or other reasons you should move on.