Appreciated the detailed reply Scroggs!

MFALK

A question for current Virgin guys (and gals). Does the contract still just mention a 'London base' with crews flying out of both LHR and LGW?

I ask because there's a thread in this forum regarding Jet2's dual basing policy. I hated the LGW trips because they were so inconvenient. Just wondered if they still provide the 'Limo'.

We are all LHR based. Fly a Gatwick trip & duty begins an extra hour earlier than for a Heathrow trip. Limo has turned magically into a bus! That said, I've only done 1 LGW trip in 2 years. However, the 747 guys & girls......

Thinking of coming back?:ok:

Dan, there's no Gatwick base as there was in the days of the Classic; we are all LHR based. Whether the LGW base will return as all the 744s move down there is moot.

I live equidistant from both places, fortunately!

I remeber my contract said 'London'. The report time was an hour earlier and the 'Limo' was always a bus. Of course the bus went every hour, so it could be the case that you had to report at the Queens building 1h55 before your 'report' time. Plus the added hassle of getting to the car park and then the Queens building, you could have to get to LHR 2hr30 before reprting at LGW. Just what you wanted before a 2 crew Florida Variation. Of course most people who traveled from the west just carried on driving down the M25. We usually got two of those a month on the 744.

Ex vicar. Not thinking of returning. I've had it with long haul - and I couldn't afford it.

PS. Good night out last week. How much did I drink?

Scroggs, just a quick question: does VS usually provide 2 staff car park passes (for LHR and LGW) or do you always have to report at LHR and then "limo" down to LGW in case you have to fly from there?

Many thx! :ok:

Car park access is arranged as required. If you need Gatwick access, you will have it. You would get LHR access automatically.

Dan, my contract still says 'Gatwick' That was amended by letter to 'Heathrow' (not 'London') when I moved to the 'Bus. I'm not sure what new contracts say.

Mine says Heathrow and I got a MAN car park pass because I commute from there. You can report directly to your departure airport, LGW or MAN if you want to but your FDP will always start at LHR for a LGW flight and a positioner the day before for a MAN flight.

Hi what amount of time is there between trips? (A340 at LHS). how does this work out with the commuting from manchester? Is there a minimum "DAYS OFF" . i have decision to make and travel time etc is a big part. thanks

Virgin Roster (and other stuff).

It's amazing what a search will reveal. Even a read through this very thread would be quite productive.

Ivanna Gotovirgin
 

The question is, what official/unofficial requirements are in place at present?

Am I better off with bus or boeing time?

Regards,

Cn.

Bus.Boeing's on the way out.

So even if I had a million Boeing hours it would mean route FA?

Bus time may be an advantage but it is not a must have. I was given an A340 course with only Boeing time. From what was said at interview, I think they put a premium on the right people rather than look for people with type ratings. That said I'm sure bus time is an advantage.

Virgin Atlantic
 

Hi Folks! I have, like many of you, an application with Virgin for quite a while now and have updated it every year... I am now thinking of writing a standard "paper"-Application to their address. What do you think? Appropriate? Too offensive? Not desperate but very keen on joining the team... Thanx for any advice! Happy Easter:confused:

From the website:My emphases.

Should have picked this up earlier!

There's no way the Boeing's on the way out. There are (IIRC) 13 B744s on strength, varying in age from about 14 years down to 2 or so. The fleet is split half at LGW and half at LHR, though they will all eventually end up at LGW (with an outstation at MAN). The B744 is an excellent solution for the Caribbean and US holiday routes, and I get the feeling the company would like a few more. As that's no longer an option (and recent s/h GE-powered 744s aren't readily available), they are beginning to look at what to do in order to maintain and expand this side of the business. Rumour would have it that the B772/773 is in the frame, and there don't seem to be too many sensible 350+ seat alternatives available (the 380 is not a practicable solution for Caribbean and similar destinations)! Therefore, I think it's fair to say that Boeing will have a place in Virgin's fleet for some considerable time to come.

Scroggs, this is sterling work you are putting in here.

I thang yow! ;) :ok:

That's Captain Scroggs to you ;) :) :)

By the way I couldn't agree more :)

Virgin Job Security
 

Currently a LHS A320 driver for a well-respected UK outfit....Fancying a change to a different lifestyle and don't fancy BA.

After the downturn post 9/11 Virgin dropped a lot of pilots and my fear is that if I was to jump ship now are Virgin in a stronger position to withstand a downturn and also the ever increasing fuel prices and also with the A380 delays can they sustain their "impressive" expansion plans ?

Just my thoughts but...

Virgin seems to be in a different position now, what I mean by that is that post 9/11 most of its business was towards America (90% or so) now they have concentrated on developing routes on another market too (S.A. and Asia, etc) so they are not solely relying on American routes...

If you do jump ship better to do it sooner rather than later because if there is a downturn then at least there will be more people beneath you on the seniority list!
There's as much, if not more job security as VS than most airlines at present.

And that's just what I thought when I joined VS in 2001. Sept 11 was a suprise, but not as much as a suprise at how ready VS was to ditch a huge number of the workforce.

September 11 was a suprise Dan, as was being laid off within 6 weeks, however they did ask everyone back and many did return, unless they had found greener pastures elsewhere as you did.

The biggest threat to job security is the rocketing oil price, and that affects all airlines in the medium term, hedging only covers a fixed period although some clever sods stand to make money on it.

The airline has diversified its route structure in the years since 2001 with no new US routes although some frequencies have been upped. I think its also fair to say that the company has changed quite a bit, 2001 was the catalyst but there were structural issues prior to that date which have since been sorted out. Caution is the name of the game rather than new routes just for the fun of it. Virgin has been around for over 20 years now, it survived two Gulf wars, SARS, 9/11 and various downturns not to mention other carriers attempts to force it out of business in the early days. The company is also making money. If VS were to fold at this stage I suspect it would be part of a general catastrophe which would take many other carriers with it.

The expansion has been stretched out over a longer timescale than initially envisioned but recruitment seems to be continuing at a steady pace, mostly for the A340 but as SFO's from the 744 start to move over to the Airbus for command there could well be more Boeing recruitment to cover the empty RHS slots.

As has been stated before, the sooner you join, the sooner you will have a cushion of people below you. There are no certainties in life but I'm not feeling terribly worried for my job at the moment. Hope this helps.


Over to you Scroggs.....

After 9/11, Virgin decided to ditch 25% of capacity, that being their guess as to how much the market would decline in the short term as a direct result of the WTC attack. Spookily enough, most majors with heavy exposure to the North Atlantic/US market came to a roughly similar conclusion. No other European carrier had such a large bias towards the US as Virgin did, and therefore Virgin was particularly exposed to how that market reacted.

To achieve that 25% reduction, VS axed the B747 Classic fleet. Of course, this was the only aircraft VS flew with Flight Engineers, so the redundancy list at one point approached 40% of the flight deck staff, as all the FEs were to go!

As history and hindsight now shows, even with the extended effects of SARS shortly after 9/11, 25% was an over-estimate of the effect on Virgin's market (though it was considerably more than that on some routes), and the job losses never got anywhere near the 25% proposed - except for the dear old FEs. Even some of them got a reprieve, as two Classics were retained for the MAN-MCO task.

That's the history lesson. The most salient factors in job security at VS are firstly that the airline is far less exposed to any one market than it was in 2001, and secondly that BALPA rapidly became a significant strength in the workforce, ensuring (after a shaky start) that the correct principles of equity, seniority and process became enshrined in the company's redundancy policies.

No airline is secure, and airlines funded by private equity are less secure than those with government backing, but VS is in good shape these days and is as likely as any middle-sized airline to be here in another 22 years.

Thanks for the replies -- Out of interest what is the current projected time to command as the expansion plans have slowed down ?

Have they?

Dunno - I am on the outside looking for a few clues ?

The guys getting commands now have been with VS 7 to 8 years. The guys joining the company now will be nowhere near command when the current expansion ends - note the emphasis on current expansion, who knows what will happen in the future.

As to job security - as has been pointed out, VS has diversified its route structure quite a bit since 9/11, but I think that most of the profits still come from the US routes - though no doubt that will change with time as the new routes bed in. It's also been pointed out, by that fine scribe Scroggs, that VS is a private carrier and private carriers will never be as secure as state carriers. We're in good shape at the moment, and we're no longer the new kids on the block trying to find our feet, but if a general catastrophe hits aviation (maybe Bird Flu??) then we're not going to be immune. If job security is your overriding concern, then I think BA is a better bet.

Having said all that, this a good place to work - not perfect by any means, but the best job I've ever had. Just don't tell management I said that..

I'm not sure exactly what NB had in mind when he said that expansion plans had been stretched over a longer timescale. The airline seems to be on track to achieve the planned doubling in its 2002 size by 2012 or thereabouts, and I've heard nothing to suggest that that plan has changed. The A380 entry into service is delayed (probably to 2009), but the extra delay over and above Virgin's 2-year order deferral of two years ago is all down to Airbus.

Command time has been covered before, and it's a very imprecise science. It depends almost entirely on expansion at present, though retirements will become of proportionally greater relevance before too long. As tired says, 8 years is the going rate just now. For guys joining in 2006, my best guess is that they'll wait 10-12 years, but there's no way of knowing how accurate that is - so don't sue me if it takes 20!

Scroggs, just regurgitating part of the discussion I had a few weeks ago on the way back from BGI. Maybe I misunderstood but I got the impression that the original plan was to double in size (or was it capacity) by 2010 and that the oil price increase, which was not forseen in 2002, had led to a small brake application. Whether this includes the delay to the 380 I'm not sure, the rest of the 340 order seems to be progressing on schedule. Being a 744 bod I'm not really well up on the commings and goings on the bus so I reckon you know a lot more! I have also had a spot of leave during which the entire scenario will have changed at least twice.

I wonder if the expansion includes our budding space program?

nb

Virgin age limits!!
 

I know this post is not in keeping with the previous post, I just didnt want to start a new thread, when the aim of my enquiry is mainly to do with Virgin!

How old are the guys and girls being hired by Virgin? I have read on here that you need a minimum of 4000hrs of which the majority needs to be jet time, but have no idea whether age is also an issue?

The reason I ask is im 27 in a couple of weeks, im half way through my atpl ground school and have realised that by the time I find employment, build up 4000+ hrs i will be mid to late 30's? Is this too old?

Don't fret Hollywood. VS seem to hire folks ranging from mid twenties to late forties, perhaps older. If you're in your thirties when you apply you'll still be around the average age of new joiners from what i've seen.
Good luck with your exams.

Too old for what? Retirement age is 60 - and soon to be 65. Why would a new joiner in their late 30s be considered too old? With 30+ years service ahead of you, what would you be too old for? The vast majority of new hires at VS are in their 30s, and a significant minority are over 40.

So with the age of retirement extended to 65 will this slow down movement on the seniority lists !

Inevitably it will, though there is no glut of Virgin pilots approaching 60, let alone 65. There are some, but the numbers aren't that significant in the context of the overall seniority list. This (EU) legislation affects all UK airlines, so nowhere will be exempt its ramifications. The almost simultaneous ICAO legislation which effectively prohibits nations from preventing foreign carriers using commanders up to age 65 (for which see a number of topics in R&N) will mean that many more countries are likely to accept aircrew retirement at age 65, so Virgin is hardly unique!

virgin recruitment
 

hi folks
just wondering where you can find real infos about the whole interview process - lots of useful infos about payment, roosters and other staff but unable to find things about recruitment
thanks for reply

Look at this post, which is contained in this very thread a couple of pages back. It contains just about all you need to know.

Scroggs -- Any idea on how full the holding pool is at this time and where are the new guys mainly going onto ? The B744 or A340 or a mix ??