Nice to see you were shafted the other day.
You and Flaps1 should still resign.:ok:
As long as you two clowns are involved with BALPA myself and many others wont rejoin.
Please stop being a tourist and leave MY country.

Flaps,

I admire your efforts on behalf of all the pilots at Easy but I think you should be on the other side of the table! Last year's deal was pretty poor and resulted in numerous resigations from BALPA.
Examples were...

1. Reduced salary for the first six months in command
2. Reduced sector pay
3. Paying for crew food

It just didn't look good to me and showed BALPA to be pretty poor value for money. There are lots of people in the company who have had bad experiences with BALPA and THAT is why you only have 50% of the pilots in the union. I wasn't prepared to keep paying to have a deal like last year's recommended to me.

I know it would have been a lot worse without BALPA but I'm afraid you let them get away with far too much - especially where F/Os were concerned.

Flaps thingy

As I said when BALPA wanted us all to vote for their recognition we were told that BALPA would look after us all. As you now say, you won't represent non members at disciplinaries. Shame on you all - your word is about as reliable as anything that comes from orangeland.

On the FTL debate, if it is all going so well perhaps it would be helpful then if you cut and pasted the latest bits from your own BALPA chat website. Thats were the news of disappointment comes from.

Stop doing a JP style spin on PPUNE

cosmo MJBD and Mac

It sure is easy to critisise but what is the alternative you are offering to hving these guy negotiate on your behalf. You have left BALPA (or not joined) either because you are too tight to pay the fee or you believe no negotiation is necessary and you would accept whatever the company offers....or is there some other conclusion I am missing??? Please explain?

Does your lack of membership mean that in the future the BALPA pilots comittee (incl. Flaps and The colonel) will no longer exist and we will all somehow be better off? Is that how your protest works or do you just post here to let of steam and not really mean any of it?

I am trying to make some sensible conclusion as to how you think it should work. What is it you want and how do you propose we get it? Why is it that after all this time in the company you have not managed to motivate others to your cause in sufficent numbers to oust the incumbents?

Rejoin (or join), get together support for your ideas and I for one will certainly vote you in to sort it out if you can provide some evidence that you can produce a better result than the guys who are busting their collective arses for you at present.

In the meantime I thank my lucky stars that someone was there last year to stop it from being worse than it was.

NG

PS Thanks to the colonel for the tax savings over the last 4 years, must certainly amount to more than I have ever paid to BALPA.

Engee,

Well I knew I'd get a response like yours. I did say if you read my post that it would certainly have been a lot worse without BALPA. I just find it hard to pay money to an organisation which RECOMMENDS I take a pay cut for the first six months in command! Of course nobody on the council gave a stuff about that one because it didn't affect them. It's not the money it's the principle. It's a shame there isn't an alternative as I think there was a little too much self interest going on last year (anyone over 60?)

It's not about being tight - it's about expecting the union to stop things like those that were recommended last year even getting to the table. I don't pay subs to unions to negotiate pay cuts for me - simple as that. At the end of the day I'll vote with my feet if ever get to that stage but at the moment I'm happy to be getting what I came here for.

Engee,
As you know I was a member .
Right up until Klinky ,MAlooney ,and the bakers boy.
Suggested we should agree on the previous deal.
Myself and many others voted NO.
Klinky himself said,What a great deal it was at the time.
Thats why I have no faith in the above right now.

You may remember I was strongly opposed to accepting the plan.
I even told ***** to keep his nose out of it at the time of acceptance when letters were going around the crew rooms.

The present people you have representing you are well below standard to make a dent in improving our position.
You need a Duncan Smith style revote of your reps OR the new negiotiating will be a complete Waste of time.
Think About it.

You need a more aggresive team to do the job to make any impact.
Preferably just Trade unionists NOT pilots.
Therefore insuring against double deals and back room favours.
If you remember RYANAIR very nearly had a strike a few years back.
At the last hour the little paddy ran down the stairs and sorted a 5 year plan with SHARES.
Even MOL knows you cant run an airline without PILOTS.
Once you have a serious 5 year deal on the table including Shares or a Bonus scheme with PROPER ROSTERING and increment salary increases,plus an increase in pension contribution.
Once you are actually proposing such a deal!
You would have higher numbers in BALPA.
Not before!

Mr MaLooney cant even tell you what is being proposed!
How in gods name does he expect us all to rejoin!

mjbd

I've just written a long reply to the last few posts but then thought again and deleted it.

I will not get drawn into a childish public debate centred on name-calling.

I am a better person than that, and always will be.

Please recruit your own Council and show us how it's done.


moderator - over to you!

Sorry Mactom if i have misread your post but I still think that there must have some point where a decision had to be made with trade offs etc. A command is not a pay cut and while it was crap (really CRAP!) what were the other tradeoffs??

Keep in mind you are an FO for a short time and a captain for the rest...I guess that was the reasoning anyway.

If you are close to your move the the LHS then perhaps its time to be pragmatic and at the advantages of working at easy. If you were originally with GO then you are not now and if you dont want to accept the reduced salary then dont.

Speak to some of the others who have been around aviation for 30 years and you will hear worse than easyJet...thats not an excuse for what has happened but rather a context on which you can base your decisions.

So, tell me where to go if you like but perhaps it would be more fruitful to join those who are trying to deal with issues such as those you have mentioned....those who have some influence such as the BALPA council. Unless you have confidence in the dog!

NG

PS I would love to see the dog join the council. Why not put your money.....


:ok:

Well I am very happy with the EZY BALPA Company Councils efforts so far. Lots of members are.

Cheers

WWW

Blackdog wrote;

Please stop being a tourist and leave MY country.

When I flew with you you were telling me how you worked out in the Gulf and how you longed to go back.

Your statement above reminds me of a pot, a kettle and the colour black :ok: Maybe the arabs thought the same? :)

I too am happy with my CC's efforts, I only wish that more people joined instead of whinging. Same old story with the human race. Plenty of people criticise but they don't get off their fat asses and help. :rolleyes:

Scottie,

They probably did BUT at least I did something about it!
I certainly didnt outstay my welcome!
For your information I do get off my backside and hussle with Alpha on a regular basis because it hasnt been sorted properly by either btb or the company.
Remind me NOT to bother on your behalf next time.
Bring your own.


Flaps1,
RTFQ and answer it.

PLease don't, BALPA, that's the British Airline Pilots Association is doing it on my behalf :ok:

Only occasionally laddie!
The rest of the time its the person in the LEFT hand sit.
Thats a failing of both your beloved Balpa and the company.
Another reason for a revote of the principal reps before serious talks occur.
With easyjet having over 800 pilots we NEED professional representation.
That doesnt mean over worked pilots doing it part time on the side.

MJBD,

Well we're all sick and tired of hearing what you are against, what you don't like and who is to blame for it, why don't you say what you are for instead of bleating and blathering get of your arse and do something about it!
This forum and thread is about rosters, why are you not on the committee ? Why have you never been on any committee? BECAUSE IT'S ALL WORDS AND NO ACTION, thats why. You sit there and slag off anyone who gives of their own time and tries to make your life better, until you join Balpa we don't want your advice on what you think should happen down at New Road, it's none of your business. And because you sit where you do, doing nothing, you will just have to like it or lump it!!

Klink,
Read the above!
Its all in plain ENGLISH.
You said,How great the previous deal was{remember}.
Plus flaps 1 saying 6on and 3 off is a step forward{is he on DRUGS].
Thats why you are unsuitable to be Chairing a Tea party let alone the easy council.
I have already asked Flaps 1 .
What is being proposed on several occasions.
Sadly No answer .


PLEASE TELL US ALL WHAT IF ANYTHING IS BEING PROPOSED.
Dont respond saying you will have to join because it doesnt wash.

Now speak up laddie we are all listening!
It is my BUSINESS as both you and I are employees of easyjet!{remember}.
Unless of course old uncle ***has put you on the board{GOD FORBID}.
As I said before we need PROFESSIONAL REPRESENTATION not
amateurs.

Finally I was asked by a lady committee member ages before you got involved to be on the committee.

Before I answer you and your twisted ramblings, you be VERY careful before you ever again imply or suggest my colleague, Flaps one is on drugs lest we see you in court, mister. While it is clear you may not care about your reputation, we certainly do about ours!
What is being proposed to the company is an aggressive step forward to better our conditions and improve our lifestyle. Most members are not even privy to those details, as is the custom while negotiating a pay claim. I have spent many hours and given up several days off to get this far. I will be in New Rd all day Wednesday (a day off) working on it, Flaps One will be there doing something else.I am doing it again next week as well.
The point is: what have you ever done apart from yell and scream on forums like these? I answer ONLY to our members, and they deserve the best we can do. Membership is again on the increase, and we won't stop until we negotiate with the full force of the pilots behind us.
You have never been on a committee, council or any other group whose ambtions extend to improving your lot. You have never been promoted, and you could have gone to Now if you felt so strongly, maybe the fact that you would have had to take a 10% pay cut means you can't put your money where you mouth is , after all!!!!!

He might also like to try Ryanair, Britannia, Jet 2 or Globespan to name a few, or perhaps things aren't quite that bad at EZY!!

KLink,
The drugs thingy was a Joke{sorry I forgot you dont have a sense of humour laddie .}.
Once again you have glossed over the question without being specific{surprise surprise}.
Believe it or not I wish you the best of British in your talks ,but if its anything LIKE last time{it will be a shambles}.

You need a 5 year plan to make an impact.
REAL ROSTERING designed for humans not CLOCKWORK ORANGES.
Backed up with PROFESSIONAL IMPLEMENTATION.
Year by year nonsense wont cut it.
Particularly ,If easyjet is being looked as a real career choice as the little ad says at the top of the page.

If you came up with specifics you might get some of us to rejoin.
Sadly its all cloak and dagger HUSH HUSH.
Or is it I gont have a clue so Im not saying?

TA TA:cool:

Please tell me what relevance does me being promoted have on this discussion. I could of course mention how you failed your command course in Rba ,but thats not my style.:ok:

I dont wish to be on any committee,tea club,mason shaking,or shirt lifting society because I have other interests OUTSIDE of easyjet.:ok:

mjbd....

Of course you do.....reading and posting on PPRUNE :rolleyes:

Maybe joining a 'shirtlifting society' would allow some release for your pent-up rage. :8

I've been following your posts for a few years now, and they have been, wthout exception, bitter, unprofessional and often offensive attacks on your employers and colleagues in a public forum. Whilst I have no desire to work for Easy, I have to say that if you hate the job as much as you do, then why not leave? It can't be good for you living with such hate.

Maybe all the hours you spend posting on here would be better spent sending applications out to other airlines? (please not the airline I work for though := )

The only person who is going to make your life better is YOU. No-one else, and certainly not an internet forum! Bite the bullet and move somewhere you'll be happy and stop whinging about your life on here.

Have a beer and chill dude :ok:

Busta,
Myself and about half of easyjet are working on a tunnel out right now.
The orange juice ran out ages ago.
Thanks for your concern.
Who do you work for?{only kidding}.

mjbd

I have a very good sense of humour but have pushed it beyond my limit!

Defamation of character (you made my name public on this forum and then attacked me) and slander are uppermost in my mind right now.

I have to think long and hard about what I am going to do next, but I shall certainly be taking advice.

Untill then, I shall make no more contributions to this topic.

Guys

I was about to attend an interview with with your lot but after reading the posts on this forum I think I might cancel. This is no place for this sort of dirty laundry!

I can't believe some of the comments on this forum, frankly it does not sound very professional!

Ladies & Gentlemen ( and i strongly suspect it is the latter ), firstly you do have a private forum where you might wish to continue this private squabbling. Secondly you cannot use real names on this public forum. I appreciate there are a small smattering of Christian names ( real or not ?) which may not exactly constitute naming, however it is NOT permitted !

Since this subject is being aired and is clearly of interest to many I am letting it continue with some very minor edits. I dont want to receive any more justified complaints on this thread, nor do I intend to debate this decision. Get the subject back on thread and self moderate within the accepted rules or it will be closed and removed !

Spy, I'm sorry you feel that way. With one notable exception, the guys at easyJet are a superb bunch, loads of experience and very pleasant to work with. While it may be true that the company does have some lifestyle issues and some of the benefits could be improved, some of us are working very hard to see this improvement happen. One day, if we are successful, it may even be an excellent company to work for. Do not let the sad gruntings of MJBD put you off what could one day be an excellent career choice.

Klink,
Lets just get the record straight here.
You go on about being professional etc.

Sadly ,regarding Rostering you approved the previous talks which were conducted early.
Therefore from this information I am afraid myself and others do not hold out much hope for your new talks.
I have asked repeatedly for your full proposal but to no avail!

Flaps1,
If you read the above your name was not mentioned.{check the spelling}.
Also as I said earlier I was only joking!

Spy,
The poor rostering and crewing within easyjet has been going on for years.
This must be sorted shortly!
1 Because what is presently in place is unacceptable to over 800 pilots within the company with further growth planned.
The company has a horredous sickness rate!
2 Long term easyjet cannot seriously be considered a career airline.{5/6 years at the most with the present system in place!}.
3 The above are points you may want to ask at your interview.
4 Do us all a favour and tell us the outcome.

Ps Klink and Flaps1 can now celebrate because I have nothing further to say.
Good luck with the talks!{SURPRISE US}.:ok:

I have just come across this thread and I cannot believe what I have read!!! MJBD you are a complete @rse - unprofessional, childish and clearly lacking in common decency. Your attacks on the Chairman and other members of the BALPA council are disgraceful.

As an easyJet pilot I am ashamed to have you as a collegue and hope that you leave us very soon.

Gentlemen,

Those of you that do and don't support Balpa, like me must be ashamed to work with a certain individual. This mis-use of Pprune to air some unpleasant and unpopular views with such disrespect to others has gone on long enough, and I for one refuse to give him the satisfaction of my reading this filth any longer. I suggest respectfully, let us "retire" this thread, and not give him a chance to waste our time any further. Balpa members: please visit our new easyJet Members forum on the Balpa website, ASAP. It's up and running, and you will find all the news there.
To the rest: we hope you join us soon,

Regards,

MS.

Moderator, PLEASE close this thread down - it has gone on quite long enough!!!

moderator
 

Please do not close this thread down. Here in the West we advocate the right to free speech. EasyJet do not have anything to hide , so why censor. Let the debate run but edit the defammation if you need to.I am a BALPA member at easyJet and I agree with a lot of what MJBD says , but perhaps not his delivery. I also have enourmous respect for "Klinky" and all members of the CC, MC,KC et al. It may be unwise to wash our laundry on a public forum but perhaps it will have a long term positive effect for current EJ pilots if we cannot recruit. I do not know but I feel pressure is needed at board level to improve our lot and I think the CC , instead of taking offence at the dog, should perhaps convey his feelings and effects to the board through the auspices of the CC. After all , if he paid subs, they would have to represent his views!!!

Hear hear, twinjet! Things are improving, but maybe not as quickly as mjbd would like!

It will be interesting to see how easyJet will crew Berlin; they were hoping to employ all the Aero Lloyd pilots, but maybe Mr Lauda has other ideas!

Max Autobrake , easyJet will crew Berlin like they crew any other base, i.e. pilots employed on a British contract and volunteering to be based there. Don't think there'll be any problem , there isn't exactly a shortage out there.

40 contracts sent out, none returned. I wouldn't call that encouraging.

Boy am I glad I failed my Easyjet sim ride, thank god
I stayed put in my present company.

Good luck to all of you in the big O, hope you find what your seeking ref the terms and conditions.

Also heard of an astonishing lack of response.

I think that there might be some problems being permanently (not temp)employed in another country like Tax - easyjet have this problem now in France I been told but are doing the usual head in sand and hope it goes away.

I also hope this isn't closed as it gives everyone an indication of what goes on in easyjet. mjbd has a major style problem and I strongly disassociate myself with his personal attacks on some other individuals but some of what he says is right such as; -


The poor rostering and crewing within easyjet has been going on for years.
This must be sorted shortly!
1 Because what is presently in place is unacceptable to over 800 pilots within the company with further growth planned.
The company has a horredous sickness rate!
2 Long term easyjet cannot seriously be considered a career airline.{5/6 years at the most with the present system in place!}.

Commendable as the efforts of the PC might be, I don't think they'll get anything really significant sorted.

Forgive me but I'm realtively new to this thread and the tone of some of the discussion is acidic!!!

I don't understand something...maybe you guys can help.

If the crewing etc an easy is so bad, and the balpa guys are trying to fix it..........why are you knocking them back so much? It seems that they say they are trying to put right almost all of the things you moan about so that's a good thing isn't it?

Would it not be sensible to see how they get on and then criticise?

Im not balpa - well i'm not in an airline yet!!! but i think that I would try to support guys working to make life better for me rather than beating them up every time they say something.

Please please dont shut down this thread its highly entertaining and puts my problems in perspective.

No wonder we need CRM to get on.

Every thread turns into a pissingcontest or slag off.

More of it I say.

Your Bird Major

The reason I am sceptical about the PC's chances of changing things is because there is no will on the part of the management to bring about any meaningful change. The PC try hard so fair play to them but they are at present relatively new to the game. This is part of easyjet culture. There has been a PC for years and BALPA have been involved for about 2 years. What happens is that every coupled of years the guys on the PC get exhausted for having tried so hard for so long with no real progress they stand down and get replaced by some new entusiastic chaps like what we have now. The game starts again and easyjet can reel out the same old excuses and game plans. Full marks to the chaps for trying but realistically I expect them to get very little and in a couple of years they'll be standing down due to frustration/exhaustion and someone else will appear bright and bushy tailed to take over. Another reason for scepticism is the fact that the last Chair of the PC stood down as he was going for a senior management position which had become available. You only have to read some of the postings by PC members on here to see what I'm getting at. Some of them read like Company newsletters from spin city.

Maintaining the status quo is heralded by BALPA as a great success because they have there own agenda to increase membership. For example, not so long ago without notice the Company which regards us as there greatest asset withdrew the crew water. For our 10 hour plus Flt Duty periiods we are supposed to bring our own or we can buy water from the on board sales (assuming that there is any left) - who needs water in the dry atmosphere of an aeroplane for 10 hours anyway - aircrew aren't special - they can buy it like the rest of us blah blah orange blah. Well along comes the cavalry in the form of the PC and after a couple of days the water is restored (just as long as you'don't have too much of it). Great success! (NB I seem to recall about a year earlier there was similar incident so the Company will keep trying and one day .................)

I strongly disassociate myself from mjbd's pesonal attacks but some of his views are correct. eaysjet is not a career airline. There are plenty of chaps relatively new for whom it is a first EFIS jet or first airline. The enthusiasm usually lasts 6 months to 2 years. Talk to some of the chaps who've been here for 5 years plus. Almost all of them are anti and bitter and knackered many have had to go part time as the only way to maintain there lifestyle/personal relationships is to give up some pay for more time off (part time work equals part time pay).

The sickness rate is high and that is partly due to low morale and partly because we are all knackered.

cosmijewel

Thanks.

a post with some explanation at last!

What i dont understand is that if the company removed your water and your balpa team stepped in and stopped it, isnt it a good job they were there?

Maybe if they hadnt been there the company would have just done it anyway. What could happen then?

How often do other union teams (in other companys) change? It seems a good idea to change the faces regularly to keep up the motivation and enthusiasm.

I used to work (not very long ago) in a different industry where our (small) union seemed to spend a lot of its time fighting to keep things the same. It sounds daft but its better than letting things get worse surely.

Did the guy going for the managment job get it? Just curious.

No he didn't - in fact none of the likely candidates did and it went to a new chap on the block which must irritate the base captains that we thought were in the running for it.

Changing faces every couple of years could be a good plan but here it happens because of shear frustration and exhaustion not because it seems like a good plan.

At present the PC are running around dancing to the CEO's tune and looking at changing the Flt Time rules by which we work. This is another waste of time and diversionary tactic by the company. The idea is that if we are more flexible we can have a 5 and 3 roster pattern. The reality which none of them want to face up to having gone down this road is that there is no way that this Company will give us contractual right to 5 and 3, yet we will contractually have to work to the new time limits. History shows that anything easyjet commit to without being obliged by law to acheive will last about as long as an 18 years old virginity on a Club 18-30 holiday.

Anyway I quite like not having to start before 0600 after a day off - why would we want to change that.

So he didnt get the job - then why is that still a problem?

Now contracts (general not aviation) is something I do know a lot about.

Surely they cannot cahnge your contact without agreement and that means a vote.

Cant you just vote against it? thats the whole point of having a union otherwise, as someone said before theyd just change it anyway and you would have no say!

Anyone from the easy PC like to comment? I understand union law to say that you could not change contracts without a vote of all members - will you have a vote?