Advice on latest conditions BA, QR, ABB, EK, Sunclass
 

Any of you have the following information to share? I did read a lot of posts about those companies, but most of them are outdated (thanks, covid!). Did BA introduce 24hrs layovers on longhaul? How is it at EK, QR?

- Salary (how much is paid out to the bank account, after taxes, add-ons, etc, etc). Do they provide extras (like an apartment, paid utilities, etc?)

- Time to upgrade and expected salary as CPT

- General quality of roster (enough rest (on layovers, between flights)). Consistent morning or evening/night flights - not all over the place. Fatigue issues. How easy is to make a request with crewing, arrange swaps, etc?

- Atmosphere in the company and flight deck in general

Expected salary as Captain at BA???
Crazy question considering it will take you decades to even get a long haul command if you managed to get in...

Sure, I do understand it's not like Wizz or Ryan where you do upgrade after 3 years or so. How would a "normal" career path at BA look like? FO on 320 for 10 years, FO on long haul for 5 years, CPT on 320 for 5 years, CPT on long haul? Or am I way off?

I don’t even know two of those airlines ABB or Sunclass ?
I don’t think you have to go P1 SH for a LH cmd in BA

BA
 

- Salary (how much is paid out to the bank account, after taxes, add-ons, etc, etc).
All in, including allowances etc start on around £4k a month if you come as an experienced pilot. After 34 years in the company this tops out around £8k/month.

Do they provide extras (like an apartment, paid utilities, etc?)
No

- Time to upgrade and expected salary as CPT
Long haul command around 20 years.
Short haul command closer to 10 years.
captain salary is 33% more than FO

- General quality of roster (enough rest (on layovers, between flights)). Consistent morning or evening/night flights - not all over the place. Fatigue issues.
Pretty good mixture on long haul. Short haul is very tiring.
rostering system favours seniority - junior pilots get very little choice - and you'll be junior for YEARS

How easy is to make a request with crewing, arrange swaps, etc?
swaps very easy to make, we have a 3rd party aop for it. Crewing are nearly impossible to contact though.

- Atmosphere in the company and flight deck in general
generally a great bunch of people. Poor relationship with management, but hopefully that tide is slowly turning.

sudden twang

Happy to be corrected by the likes of White Van Man but unless it's changed in the last couple of years the answer is no you don't.....P2 LH -> P1 LH is possible and a very well worn path but time to LH command is basically governed by time in company, not on time on type or time in role....Long Haul Command about twenty years after joining the company sounds credible, it was up at around that when I left.

(For completeness I seem to recall a few decades back in the history there was a SH requirement prior to LH).

Is this bit actually true or are there digits missing? After 34 yrs and reaching LH command your take home is £8k!? Ryanair captains are taking that with 7 yrs in the company!! Those with more yrs and base captains, a lot more!

I guess it might be closer to £9k with allowances etc. Try putting £188k salary with 6% pension contribution into a PAYE calculator.

I never said BA was the best paying airline, it is most definitely not 😆

Correct, it's still the case that you bid for the seat you fancy, and wait until seniority is enough for it. No need to go short haul for your command first. Realistically by the time your number is up, you already far exceed any of the minimum requirements to be placed on a course.
When the course goes ahead (change of type or command or both) then you are "frozen" for a few years meaning you can't bid to change again until the time is up (rules changed recently but it's around 5 to 7 years iirc)

Captains getting command now not quite, but not a zillion miles away.. Guys on the legacy contracts? More, as well as base captains. It can also heavily depend on your country, the Italian contracts are leading the pack.

Regardless though, after 34 yrs and in command of an airliner belonging to the national carrier, to even be comparable to FR salaries has shocked me a bit. I thought it was a lot more. I accept staff travel and the like also have worth .. but so does the 5/4 ..

Historical examples should be used with caution to try and predict a future career-path, as circumstances are so dynamic; e.g. the general state of the economy, management policy, fleet size, not to mention "events, dear boy" such as war, COVID, 9/11, etc.

For what it's worth, here are the paths taken by four BA pilots who joined as DEPs in 1997 (all timings approx):

1. P2 744 / 6 mths / P1 737 LGW / 2 yrs / Trg Capt 737 / 5 yrs / Trg Capt A320 LHR / 12 yrs / Trg Capt 787
2. P2 744 / 12 yrs / P2 777 / 7 yrs / P1 777
3. P2 744 / 19 yrs / P1 787
4. P2 744 / 14 yrs / P1 A320 / 4 yrs / P1 787

So, 20 yrs to a LH command seems about right.

As far as salaries go, I think BALPA publishes the scales, but in 2020, LH P1 after 22 years was a basic of £177k with about £20k allowances on top, all gross before tax.

This is a good reason to go BA. Depending on age. Late 40s maybe not but everyone circumstances different.
Look at those 4 pilots routes. 2 stayed LH but other 2 maybe wanted to try SH, something different, different aircraft as well. RYR or Wizz SH for 20,30,40 years? No way. Ok you can get into training but that’s it really.
All the extras do add up. Even if you’re not getting it in salary holidays away could easily save few£k a year with a family. Hotels paid for, medicals etc etc. Ok some people might be happy SH whole career, J2,RYR,Wizz etc offer that.
If it’s £££££ then yeah EK or QR seem to be the choice of many from what I see and speak to. With the pound at the moment and taking housing allowance at EK I know guys pushing £11k a month as FOs at EK. Night flights kill them but they see it as short term no longer than 10 years then leave. Have to be disciplined that way though. Start going out buying F150s, M3, AMGs etc and the plan won’t work. Subject to change but EK used to have a rule if you did 15 years you got flights free for life. Met a couple guys who stayed just for that!! Still after all that come back you need a plan. Either get out of aviation if you have a plan or you’re back to Wizz,J2,RYR if lucky DHL or similar.

BA is career airline. IMO

I’ve never been able to argue with Wiggys facts or logic👍
I’ve still no idea who ABB or Sunclass are.

I know of a talented youngster who beefed me up for an LPC who has a career olan:

BA EF DEC to EF TC to EF TSC to LHR A320 TC to LHR A320 TSC to A350 TC to A350 TSC.

I suggested he goes for it and I’ll sit back and watch in awe but suspect it’ll be an A370 or A390 by then.

Unless you are on a legacy contract, currently there is no regular captain in RYR in the UK taking £8k home at the moment, and there won't be during the current agreement ending 2026. If you are a TRE/LTC, you are very shy of it but still not hitting it.

As TUI have recently opened their application, can anyone shed any light on them?

Another thing to bear in mind is if you want to live tax free, you don’t necessarily have to go to the Gulf. Many U.K. pilots were flying for U.K. carriers and in various EU countries living tax free for decades. This boosts many P1 salaries to the £15-20K monthly range.

Can I add a different perspective to all this? You *can* work for a carrier that pays a gazillion £ per year or live in a tax free country and take home £20k/month, commuting to and from your base airport, but when all is said and done, that may very well not end up being as enjoyable as you think it would be. There's a lot to be said (for most people) for living within a reasonable distance of work, family, friends, etc. Even if it does mean you pay tax.

FWIW,

As a BA long haul skipper on a 50% contract you can live (almost) tax free in certain countries in Europe and take home £8k pm. That’s doing an average of 8 days work a month, after leave, duty free weeks etc.

Which countries are they? Not nearly as numerous as they were - I can only think of Malta, Cyprus and Montenegro (and Portugal and Austria?) who don't tax foreign derived income? Then off course you need to be fortunate enough to have the right to live there and work in the UK.
Yes, the P1 package in the middle East is nearer £20k/m all in, not £11k. Otherwise, no one would go there.

EK Staff Travel
 

Aiminghigh123

I worked for EK for some years, and I need to correct you about staff Travel. Once you have completed 15 years, you receive 2 Free Firm tickets/yr (but you pay the taxes) and 9 other tickets, some s/by, some firm which you pay for. On all of these you pay the taxes. The tickets cannot be carried over to the next year, and are only for you, spouse, and immediate children. Nothing was Free in EK!

Cheers!