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-   -   Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/643123-reciprocal-agreement-eu-transfer-uk-caa-flight-crew-licences.html)

Paul Rice 10th Oct 2021 11:29

Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences
The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Reciprocal agreement with the EU on the transfer of UK CAA Flight Crew Licences.”.

Government responded:
The UK Government is supporting UK aviation as we recover from the Pandemic and deliver the benefits of EU Exit. We will explore future agreements with the EU if it is in our interest to do so.
The UK Government places the highest importance on ensuring that the opportunities arising from our exit from the European Union are realised. Withdrawing from the European Union means we have more autonomy to tailor aviation regulation according to the UKs competitive needs, while also adhering to international standards.

As part of the preparations for negotiations on the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) reached with the EU, detailed consideration was given to the future relationship between the UK and EU on aviation, including whether to seek UK participation in the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) as a third country. Within the TCA, we have agreed a chapter on Aviation Safety with an annex on Airworthiness. There is potential to consider further Annexes to the agreement in the future, including on personnel licensing, if both sides wish to do so.

However, should an agreement on licensing be assessed to be in the UK’s overall interest, we do not expect to secure this for some time, and it would require willingness from the EU as well. We are continuing to work to ensure an effective licensing regime supports UK aviation and delivering effective implementation of the existing agreement with the EU.
The Government is aware that holders of UK pilots licenses wishing to seek a license conversion from competent authorities of EU Member States in order to operate European registered aircraft are likely to encounter a cost and training burden. This process is a requirement implemented by the European Commission and applies in respect of all non-EASA licences, regardless of the State that issued the license.

In advance of EU Exit, the UK CAA provided advice and guidance to support holders of UK pilot’s licenses to transfer to an alternative EU State license. We are aware that many pilots chose to do so. At present, EU licences issued before 31 December 2020 will continue to be treated as if they were issued by the CAA until 31 December 2022, and pilots can be issued with a UK PO license. Pilots with a licence issued by an EASA state can continue to operate UK registered aircraft under a general validation, but only until 31 December 2022. After that they will need a UK licence.

The Government’s decision to maintain the validity of European licences, certificates and approvals was embodied in the Withdrawal Act. This decision was taken to ensure continuity for industry in the immediate period after the end of the Transition Period and provide ease for pilots and industry.

The Department for Transport has launched the Aviation Skills Retention Platform. This platform will allow former and current aviation sector workers who are currently out of work to register their skills, so they can be notified of relevant jobs opportunities, advice and upskilling opportunities. This platform is a tool for the future, which will aim to retain vital skills within the industry and help address the skills gap that existed prior to the pandemic. The scheme is open to anyone from the aviation sector who is looking for a vacancy. Since the start of the launch over 3,500 vacancies have been listed. For more information, please visit www.aviationtalent.co.uk.

The Government will continue to engage with the EU on future areas of safety cooperation where it can support industry while aligning with our objectives. We will also continue to work closely with industry and stakeholders to ensure that we make best use of the opportunities we now have, and to protect and enhance the sector’s skills and talent now and in the future.

Department for Transport

Paul Rice 10th Oct 2021 12:21

"As part of the preparations for negotiations on the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA) reached with the EU, detailed consideration was given to the future relationship between the UK and EU on aviation, including whether to seek UK participation in the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) as a third country."

Why did the UK Government decide to leave EASA ? Creating a situation were British Licensed Pilots are unable to apply for work with employers inside the United Kingdom.

The UK Government is not supporting UK aviation as we recover from the pandemic instead they have created a situation were British Pilots cannot even apply for work in their own country and only European Licences are being accepted by major employers in Great Britain.

Revoking our EASA Licences and replacing them with UK only Licences was an act of ideological stupidity which has caused British pilots to be out of work.

"However, should an agreement on licensing be assessed to be in the UK’s overall interest, we do not expect to secure this for some time"

The UK Government must re-join EASA immediately The whole point of international air travel is the rapid crossing international boundaries and to facilitate communication with distant countries. To do this the aviation industry is standardised on a European and Global level like no other industry and the idea that the United Kingdom can stand outside of international co-operation and set its own rules for its own bespoke niche requirements simply does not work.

Uplinker 10th Oct 2021 13:41

UK pilots have been thrown under the bus - for reasons unclear, but pertaining to "the UK's overall interest". I understand how the coal miners probably felt now, (1984-1985): forced out of work as a result of some political argument.

Me and thousands of others had an EASA licence - it says so on the front. All the exams, paperwork, air tests, medical etc, were all EASA compliant - yet overnight, we are suddenly allegedly non EASA compliant !

Why we allow EU pilots to fly here when they refuse to allow a reciprocal arrangement seems utterly perverse to me. Those of us with previous valid EASA licences should at least be granted grandfather rights.

Groundloop 10th Oct 2021 17:48

Originally Posted by Paul Rice (Post 11124155)
Why did the UK Government decide to leave EASA ? "

The reason has been given many times. It was a political decision because membership of EASA would have required agreeing to rulings by the European Court of Justice. Brexit dogma simply does not allow this.

Contact Approach 10th Oct 2021 17:50

Why exactly aren’t EASA issuing grandfather rights to those who previously held U.K. EASA licences?

FlyingStone 10th Oct 2021 18:12

I'm guessing because a large majority of the pilots, who didn't manag to transfer the licence before Brexit aren't citizens or residents of EASA member states.

Contact Approach 10th Oct 2021 18:22

Thats pretty irrelevant. A lot of U.K. based jobs require an EASA licence currently.

FlyingStone 10th Oct 2021 18:25

And what problem is there to "solve" from EASA's perspective?

pug 10th Oct 2021 18:26


I agree with most of that, the baby and bath water approach by the current Government isn’t really helping anyone. Hopefully there’ll be a more progressive option to vote for in the next general election.

The EU are not to blame though, the U.K. has left EU and EASA by its own decision, it is therefore up to the U.K. and the U.K. alone to decide what is acceptable, but with EASA it has all of its member states to consider. So it is the U.K. government that has thrown us under a bus, not EASA. There is nothing stopping any of us forking out for an EASA licence, but it’s pretty pointless if we don’t have the right to live and work in an EU member state, which is what ‘we’ voted for, isn’t it?

Contact Approach 10th Oct 2021 18:36

There is no problem to solve. A simple application of common sense would do the trick.

FlyingStone 10th Oct 2021 18:46

It's inherently a political issue. Most of the UK licence holders that are looking to regain their EASA licence will be British citizens.

What you are looking for is EASA to make favours to British citizens, so they can better compete for jobs with EASA licence holders (who are predominantly EU citizens). I really wonder why EASA isn't working on this as their top priority, I really wonder...

There were numerous opportunities for people of UK to apply common sense between 23rd June 2016 and 31st January 2020, but alas...

skankhunt42 10th Oct 2021 23:37

British pilots haven't been disadvantaged by Brexit, UK licence holders have. We must make the distinction between British pilots and UK licence holders. Those jobs in the UK that require EASA licences will still only be accessible to those with the right to live and work in the UK.

IrishLady 11th Oct 2021 00:33

Well said, this was political coupe de grace to ALL UK pilots. Nothing was so much destroyed by so many politicians in such a pretty short time!

king surf 11th Oct 2021 11:42

As I have said before in other threads I cannot get my head around why so many pilots at the company I work for voted leave.

biddedout 12th Oct 2021 09:22

Me too, although one pilot told me during a short flight to our closest trading neighbour that his leave vote would give the CAA more teeth.:ugh:

The act of voting to leave didn't bring about this situation, It was the fact that Johnson achieved his huge majority by blatantly lying about an amazing oven ready deal when all along he and Frost were planning to get as close as possible to crashing out with no deal. Standard Johnson, throw red meat to his base and the ERG, and then try to kick the problem down the road and fudge and bluster around it later., blaming everyone but themselves for the mess they created. They had no interest in any detail, they just wanted to drag something that wasn't going to damage them politically in the short term, knowing all along that they would later try to break agreements that they negotiated in ban faith This cobbled together strategy might have worked if they had Trump to provide some distracting top-cover but without him we will only suffer more and the EU-US relationship will grow. It is obvious what they are doing but their commons majority just means that they will continue to push ahead on this diplomatic suicide mission causing a huge amount of damage to the UK and its reputation in the world along the way.

So we are screwed and it will all get a lot worse before people wake up and realise that there is more to the story than what they read in the Telegraph and the Murdoch press.

Contact Approach 30th Oct 2021 22:58


Pathetic by all accounts.

Banana Joe 30th Oct 2021 23:26

No, not pathetic. He wrote facts.

FlyingStone 31st Oct 2021 09:32

Contact Approach

Which part exactly?

OhNoCB 1st Nov 2021 01:57

It's pretty much just the unfortunate reality. I say unfortunate on a personal level as I am an affected EU citizen now stuck with a UK licence, as my employment prevented me from transferring. As such, I do take issue with the stance that "UK licence holders had plenty of time to transfer", because for myself and many friends and colleagues, this was not an option without becoming unemployed.

biddedout 2nd Nov 2021 08:53

I see the CAA have become a little tardy in publishing their board minutes of late (Latest March 21). A shame really as it would be interesting to see how much attention they were paying to this mess that they were involved in creating.
Earlier minutes showed them slapping themselves on the back for being so clever at clearing the backlog of applications for last minute licence swaps even though a that point no one knew that there would be no licence reciprocity in the oven ready deal. In the summary of the TCA, Johnson was boasting about his fantastic oven ready deal having professional qualification recognition. Someone is lying.

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