British Pilots : The fight back begins.
 

British pilots are being excluded from jobs in the United Kingdom by foreign airlines setting up bases in the United Kingdom and then subsequently only recruiting European Union Licensed crew. For example on the Indeed job board on the 31 July 2021 Lauda Europe part of Ryanair are advertising for Airbus Captains and First Officers for a Stansted base but to apply you must have an EASA Licence and an EU Medical Certificate. What is going on when in Essex in England in the United Kingdom a British ATPL issued by the the UK CAA is not even able to apply for work in our own country and were to get a chance of a flying job in Britain you need to have a foreign non British Licence. How has the CAA allowed this to come to pass ?

How would it roll if a British Airline established its main operating base in Dublin and tried to insist that only UK CAA Licenced pilots could apply for work in Ireland. Any attempt to do this would be physically stopped immediately and it is beyond belief that the British Government and the CAA have allowed foreign airlines and foreign crews to set up significant bases in the United Kingdom and allowed recruitment practices to develop that prevent British citizens for applying for work in their own country. This is nothing short of discrimination based on national origin.

Its time now for foreign airlines with their significant bases of operation in the United Kingdom to be required to have British AOC 's and for their United Kingdom based crews to have United Kingdom CAA Licences. An ICAO Licenced pilot arriving in the UAE is only required to sit a single air Law exam on arrival in the UAE in order to be issued with a GCAA ATPL valid for employment with Emirates or flydubai. A very simple process which contrasts to the nationally and racially discriminatory way EASA requires 14 written exams and a flight test to be passed in order to issue an EASA Licence based on an ICAO Licence.

British pilots we are simply being turned over here prevented from finding work in our own country by foreign companies employing only foreign licensed pilots while the EASA licensing authority deliberately makes it next to impossible for British pilots to get EASA Licences.

This situation has to be bought to a stop. I would like every British Licensed pilot to file a complaint with the Equalities Commission citing that we are being discriminated against on the basis of our national origin and to write to their MP. If the situation is not resolved then further steps will need to be considered.which should include a national campaign to get the British public to boycott foreign airlines with bases in the United Kingdom and who do not recruit pilots with British Licences.

You mean stopped by the common sense that no UK AOC would open a base in the EU, as they could only operate flights to UK?

That would require the rewriting of the EU-UK TCA. I doubt that will happen.

There's only one cause of all of this mess. And plenty of British pilots voted both for the cause and the party who implemented it. Time for some home truths.

I have written to my MP (Labour) and left him a voicemail on his Parliament voicemail, here is what I wrote:

Dear MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR LOCATION

I left a voicemail for you. I am a constituent of yours based in LOCATION. By profession, I am an Airline Pilot. I like so many others have become unemployable due to Brexit because of the UK government’s complete mishandling of aviation related affairs.

Since Brexit, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) has effectively null and voided our flying licenses meaning we can no longer operate aircraft on behalf of European carriers. Yes, UK nationals no longer have automatic employment rights to Europe but this is not the subject matter here. Allow me to explain…Our European licenses became "UK only" licenses overnight and we are now barred from flying aircraft we were happily doing so just 8 months ago even for European airlines with a presence (a base of operation) In the UK! Such operators are allowed to operate and expand their business in the UK. Though they can only employ those with UK working rights, they are still required to (by EASA) to only hire pilots with valid European licenses. The resulting situation is as follows:

• If you are a European national with pre-settled status, you are employable by such companies in the UK
• If you are a British or Irish national with a European license (for some reason you took the gamble to convert), you are also employable
• If you are a British national with a UK license, you are not employable by such airlines.
  • Only an airline with a UK AOC (Air Operators Charter) can hire you (the same airlines that are downsizing or bleeding right now)

The week and ineffectual UK CAA has granted European license holders special approvals so that they can continue to fly UK registered aircraft. However, the opposite situation where UK pilot license holders are able to operate European aircraft is completely missing.

Robert Courts MP, Aviation and Martime Minister does not seem to acknowledge the gravity of the situation he's government has created and neither does our Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps. My ask from you today is to take this question to parliament and ask them why they have presided over such a terrible and one-way deal that locks British pilots out of jobs in their home country. Surely, it is within their power to threaten EASA to demand they reinstate equal rights or their (European license holder) pilots lose access to our job market?

Here is more from the pilot community:

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...-licenses.html

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...682-titan.html

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...-petition.html

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...onversion.html

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...sa-moving.html

Regards…

The OP is tilting at the wrong windmill, to mix metaphors.

It has long been legal to base a foreign flagged plane in another country (including eg FAA, etc), and no amount of lobbying is going to change that.

Instead, pressure should be applied so that UK based employees and recruits are fully compliant with the right to work and live in the UK, and that recruiters don't use invalid excuses to recruit from abroad while there are unemployed British pilots. Also there are quite a number of UK based pilot employees who aren't even resident in the UK or hold citizenship - Afaiaa, there's no right for them to retain UK employment. There is a kind of Frontalier provision, but it's very limited. UK based eu operators can employ UK licenced pilots using validations (as indeed does Ryanair) The above line of lobbying is likely to have the unintended consequence of cancelling the validation scheme on both sides, with huge net loss of opportunities.

But that tired refrain, Brits voted for it, suck it up. Actually just 25% of the population did, (predominantly retired who are insulated from the repercussions and economic damage of Brexit and covid, to the cost of the working age population and pre voting age people who are bearing the costs of brexit, covid and of funding ballooning triple locked pensions, NHS and elderly social care)

Can we stop talking about the past? None of us could've possibly known what the shower of :mad: that is the Brexit deal would've looked like. We're in this mess, so how about we keep it constructive and try to find a solution?

I believe plenty people knew, but they were dismissed with "project fear" remarks.

Campaign for rejoining the single market, which would not only give British pilots back their EASA licence, but also the right to live and work in the EU. Win-win?

Home Truths
 

British citizens with British professional qualifications are being barred from applying for jobs in Great Britain by foreign companies in favour of workers with foreign qualifications. This has to stop or the simple home truth is that fuelled by long term structural unemployment this will lead to the most intense bitter and ultimately violent conflict.

This racial and national discrimination against British workers by foreign companies in the United Kingdom has to stop or the consequences will be horrific. I am looking for a historical parallel perhaps the way Uganda turned against and expelled it's Indian population for becoming overly commercially exclusive might illustrate.

Be aware British people will not stand for being banned from applying for jobs in Britain on the basis that they hold British qualifications. You are sowing the wind with this and you shall reap the whirlwind. This has to stop now !

CW247

Yes we could, but as FlyingStone rightly says any such opinion was dismissed as ‘project fear”, sadly often by colleagues.

Completely agree!

Nice thread title btw.
Good luck 👍🏻

Paul Rice

An ICAO licensed pilot arriving in the UK (even one with a GCAA ATPL) is required to sit all 14 ATPL exams and a flight test in order to convert their license to a CAA one. So if the UK wants to make it hard for ICAO pilots to convert to a UK ATPL then you don't really have an argument when it is thrown back at you.

Discrimination against British People
 

This has nothing at all to do with the United Kingdoms relationship with Europe.

This is straightforward discrimination by foreign companies against British workers seeking work in Britain with British qualifications.

Nothing at all to do with Europe just straightforward ugly racial national discrimination.

That it is sanctioned by a European Agency EASA aided and supported by the weak CAA makes the betrayal of the British worker more likely to provoke a vigorous back lash.

Any airline that employees pilots in the United Kingdom and who refuses to employ British licensed pilots should face an immediate boycott.

How can one think that politicians can solve this issue, give me break. This bunch of moronic twits who are only interested in self ingratiating actions and loads of utter nonsense speak be bothered to even address this problem. They don't give a rats bottom for us the plebs. I have been very close to the political scene in the UK can honestly state they are reflected the closest by television series, "In the Thick of it".

No hope with these buffoons running the country, for their own benefit.

Completely Agree
 

If you think the British Government give even half of one single :mad: about UK aviation then you are deeply mistaken. I predict the G reg will very soon be a thing of the past.

CW247 Quick correction for your letter "weak" not "week"

Grant Shapps is a lying scumbag, narcissist who has been promoted well past his ability for the simple expedient of supporting Johnson in Brexit. He is totally incapable of an original thought and has zero time for aviation as it would clash with the Governments sham acclamation of 'green credentials'. This was demonstrated perfectly when he attended a hole in the ground whilst the UK aviation industry was lobbying parliament. He demanded 'respect' during one clash with a constituent, I respect those who serve this country, i.e. the armed forces, police, NHS etc. I do not respect snout in the trough self centred politicians who are way, way out of their depth and only in the position for their own self gain.

There was time and opportunity to sort this out but that would have meant work and a reorganisation of the CAA who were, as any of us who have dealt with them, utterly useless under national procedures, JAR and EASA.

The UK aviation industry is sadly screwed and neither of the political parties who have a rats chance of power give a damn.

Well how about if the UK joined a block of countries with a reasonably similar if not identical views on democracy, the rule of law, workers protections, the rights of individuals and freedom of movement for trade and people? Obviously that would exclude countries like China, Russia, Brazil, a large chunk of Africa and Asia and sometimes the USA if it elects a narcissist as Prez. If the UK could somehow figure out what remaining countries are most like it (and preferably geographically nearby) then it could probably solve the OP's problem.

Alternatively the UK can just trade and fly to it's empire.

Paul Rice

😂 Get a grip on reality!

Consol

Nice idea! The problem is you can't trust Johnny Foreigner. They have no culture and their food/wine/beer is crap. They'll just come over here to nick all our jobs. They'll probably nick all our benefits and our women too. I say British blokes for British jobs. Boris is right.

Gets coat....

You get what you vote for. You were warned this would happen if the UK left EASA, but these warnings were dismissed as scaremongering. Easiest thing to do is get an EASA licence (I would suggest Ireland because of the added protections of the CTA rules etc).

CW247

Four years ago: Civil Aviation Regulation: What Future After Brexit?

FlyingStone

Have a Like! 👍

The Brexit elephant unwittingly being embellished here with that same exceptionalism in this thread. Complains about discrimination before going on to openly demand it to suit their own circumstances, welcome to the world of cause and effect.

Plenty who didn’t vote for Brexit. The fact is it’s not an equal distribution and plainly wrong. Some can sit back and moan but I hope others can take some action at least.

UK has a pilot union... BALPA.

Many pilots pay 1% of their salary to finance this union to support their cause?

The situation being described above is the singularly biggest threat I have ever witnessed in 40 years to the existance of British licenced pilots! What a change to when I started when a British licence was considered the most valuable licence anywhere? Now? A :mad: useless, murderously expensive piece of A4?

What an abortion of a government!

But where is BALPA? Completely silent.

Stop financing these leaches that take more than you do for doing NOTHING!

You have no representation. So what are you paying for?

Paul Rice

“The enemy”, racial discrimination…!
Are you for real? Are you Andrew Bridgen?

You sound very much like the rest of the neo-imperial “I want Brexit, I also want compensating for Brexit” brigade.

The only people shafting British pilots are the CAA and by extension, the Department of Transport. Otherwise known as the Conservative Party.

Got a problem with what’s going on, take it up with them. Or buy more Union flags to stick out your windows.

Rt Hon Jim Hacker MP

I agree with this statement and perhaps it is for the best. G reg is simply worthless now, along with the UK licence.

"British citizens with British professional qualifications are being barred from applying for jobs in Great Britain by foreign companies in favour of workers with foreign qualifications. This has to stop or the simple home truth is that fuelled by long term structural unemployment this will lead to the most intense bitter and ultimately violent conflict."

I agree with the first sentence. However, I do not agree with the second sentence.

I would drop the over-statements from this campaign, as you will lose folk.

The Uks biggest own goal was dropping out of EASA. Had they remained then British Pilots would be well and truly quids in just now. Good one Boris!

Paul Rice

You won, get over it.

Why all this moaning?

The UK left the EU and as a consequence left EASA.
EASA offered membership to the UK without voting rights but with ECJ jurisdiction for disputes ( like Switzerland / Iceland / Liechtenstein ) but refused.

Many UK operators are getting Maltese EASA AOC's like Titan / TAG / Maleth / Flexjet and others to avoid 3rd country operator permits.

EASA only recognises EASA Licenses to operate aircraft.

UK CAA license holders had until the 31st Dec 2020 to do a SOLI and then get a UK CAA license back ( with delays ).

If you missed the deadline you can apply for an EASA conversion like with Transport Malta, all you need is:

Copy of your ATPL results
Initial EASA Medical
LST on the aircraft you currently fly ( check must be done within 7 years of your last EASA IR renewal ).

Am I missing something here?

Paul Rice

The vast majority of those who voted for Brexit had no effin clue what they were talking about; It’s a tad more complicated than “let’s leave the EU we want to be free!”. And that’s the result.

The OP's anger is understandable, but unfortunately many of the aviators have (pre-Covid) supported the governing English National Party to keep their income taxes low and their property prices high.

This is the unintended consequence of their actions. Play silly games, win silly prizes.

Myself and all the other colleagues that were on a Lauda assessment were all British. Granted, we had EASA Licences, and whilst I understand the sentiment with the problem of EASA licences and UK licences for a position within the UK, lets not assume its 'foreigners' being included and Brits barred from this position

Good luck calling for a public boycott of airlines that do this. Precisely zero ****s will given by anyone, including by me, ill still book whatever is the best flight for me.

Time to accept that votes have consequences. Any UK pilot who voted for Brexit, working in an industry that depends on international economic and social links, is a total and utter moron. Now these people have the audacity to blame the EU for the bad deal we got! Why cant they accept they did this to themselves? We all warned you!

No-one in the UK cares about who is flying the plane, so long as it is cheap. Especially politicians.

Wasn't it "we can still move to other countries and work there, we did so before the EU"?

CW247

Do you mean except for all the people that said this would happen and were dismissed as "Project Fear"?
I'm actually pretty hard hit by all of this nonsense, but everybody who voted for this was told what was potentially in the pipeline and chose to ignore it for a blue passport.

This is incredible. No doubt you guys on your high horse right now are in jobs? How the heck did this thread go from being a genuine plea and call for action to becoming a dig at Brexiteer pilots? Brexiteers or not, there are colleagues out there with families to feed due to a complete **** up by the Boris Gang that couldn't, but should've secured equal rights for UK pilots.

Here's a response from my MP:


Dear ,

Thank you for getting in touch. This is an issue that _ is well aware of and we have been liaising with he Shadow Aviation Minister, Mike Kane’s team on this for some time.

As they understand it, CAA-EASA hadn't been allowed to negotiate an agreement until the Brexit deal was signed off, which was Christmas Eve, so the view is, that this should be ironed out “eventually.” That being said this is still a very frustrating situation for many aspiring pilots such as yourself. Can I ask if you are a member of BALPA? I understand that they have been very helpful in resolving similar issues across the country.

We have tabled two Written Parliamentary Questions, to the DfT, which you can read here:

Question: What assessment his Department has made of the impact of Brexit on a) the number of CAA qualified commercial pilots and b) the turnover of CAA qualified commercial pilots?

Answer: ”Between September 2018 and December 2020 some UK commercial pilots decided to transfer their licence to another EU Member State before the UK left the EU. Now that the UK is able to issue commercial pilot licences independently of the EU, we expect that many of these commercial pilots will now apply to hold a UK licence in addition to their transferred EU licence.”

Question: How many UK commercial pilots have had to requalify for a CAA license since the ATPL ceased to be recognised?

Answer: ”No pilots have had to requalify. To secure privileges after the UK has left the EU, some UK commercial pilots transferred their licence to an EU Member State.The EU Withdrawal Act ensures that transferred licences are recognised in the UK until the end of 2022. A new process now allows those who transferred the license to another Member State to obtain a UK license without having to requalify. Around 440 pilots have applied so far.”

Sam’s colleague Mike Kane, also tabled a WPQ which you can read here: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2021-03-25/175873

Please be assured that we will continue to follow this closely.

Yours sincerely,
__
Parliamentary Assistant
Office of __

Equal rights would mean EASA licence and the right to live and work in the EU. Which will never happen.

This was never going to happen. Wasn’t even a possibility. That’s the problem, the brexiteers were never realists. You have one country leaving a group of many others and they are always going to come off worse, because they are needed less.