PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Terms and Endearment (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment-38/)
-   -   IAG: BA restructuring may cost 12,000 jobs (https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/631988-iag-ba-restructuring-may-cost-12-000-jobs.html)

mngmt mole 7th Jun 2020 19:29

Just an observation: I believe things will get back to "normal" much quicker than expected. I am in the US and already things are rapidly getting back to normal. Restaurants, shops etc...all look as they did in Jan (certainly in the consv states). I also believe that the aviation industry will see a rapid bounce. Probably not back to the prior levels...but not far off. Time will tell, but usually people overestimate the good...and overestimate the bad. The airline managements know this, and that is why they are desperately attempting to lock in big concessions now. A few months from now...such strategies would seem laughable.

TyroPicard 8th Jun 2020 07:53

Here’s a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, that’s a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybody’s working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.

Down in front 8th Jun 2020 07:56

What about the training costs of keeping everyone current?

Out Of Trim 8th Jun 2020 08:33

British Airways - A once Great Airline.

If this management imposition goes ahead, I will never fly with this airline ever again!

It would seem to me, it would be best that all BA Staff reject new BA Imposed new contracts until management is forced to renegotiate realistic terms and conditions to all staff. It is important that you all remain united or fail!

TyroPicard 8th Jun 2020 08:37


What about the training costs of keeping everyone current?
They still exist. But there will be no recruitment type rating costs for several years.

777aviator 8th Jun 2020 09:16


Originally Posted by TyroPicard (Post 10805467)
They still exist. But there will be no recruitment type rating costs for several years.

These are all great ideas but we are gonna go the same way the miners went. The airlines won’t care about needing to up the training load, they just want maximum savings now and future management teams can deal with the repercussions. Besides, as long as they all do the same then they don’t need to worry about a rival outexpanding them and seizing the market as they will all face the up scaling issues simultaneously.
Its all about to get really ugly and it will, as ever, be every person for themselves - most contracts grabbed and signed before they hit the doormat if history is anything to go by...

(there will possibly be a few who for moral or other reasons refuse to sign, and their slot will be gratefully snapped up by some poor soul who was about to be made redundant)

stormin norman 8th Jun 2020 10:18

The Job cuts could be at least scaled back if the UK Transport and Aviation secretaries had got their act together and mapped a clear route forward

The travelling public still have no idea of any new airport procedures ,estimated new check in times ,on board changes to seating and arrival procedures.

Confidence in flying is probally at an all time low.

It's the travelling public that will keep pilots in seats - no one else

wiggy 8th Jun 2020 10:47


Originally Posted by TyroPicard (Post 10805429)
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.

Problem is whilst the workforce might accept that in the short term the management only seem to want points 1 and 3.

DaveReidUK 8th Jun 2020 11:46


Originally Posted by stormin norman (Post 10805578)
The Job cuts could be at least scaled back if the UK Transport and Aviation secretaries had got their act together and mapped a clear route forward

That would be Grant Shapps and, er, Grant Shapps.

Whether he/they has his/their act together is a moot point.

Aomoe 8th Jun 2020 12:24

If you disagree with the outrageous, unethical changes that BA management are making with complete disregard for hard working, loyal employees then please consider signing this petition. It is now abundantly clear that BA/IAG have no concern at all to listen to either their unions or the government. Maybe, just maybe they will listen to their customers. Quite honestly I don't think BA will change its course of action on the fire & rehire plans unless their Customers take a stand.

https://www.change.org/p/alex-cruz-b...9-07372c171762

Oh gaim 8th Jun 2020 12:45

How will they ever keep a straight face interviewing in the future when asking ďtell me why you want to work for BAĒ

Jet II 8th Jun 2020 12:59


Originally Posted by TyroPicard (Post 10805429)
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.

I think its not a bad idea although I believe that the hidden costs would mean that the pay cuts would need to be around 50% as they are currently at Emirates.

But why have the unions not proposed this? - it would solve the redundancy issue and protect jobs and take away the issue over the changes in contract. Perhaps one reason is that it might not be seen as fair to some groups of employees?. If you are CC on a legacy contract and earning £60k then a 50% cut to a take home of £30k is no problem - however if you are CC on a Mixed Fleet contract then a 50% cut to your current £25k pay is only going to leave you with £12,500 pa.

wiggy 8th Jun 2020 15:26


Originally Posted by Jet II (Post 10805755)
But why have the unions not proposed this? - it would solve the redundancy issue and protect jobs and take away the issue over the changes in contract. Perhaps one reason is that it might not be seen as fair to some groups of employees?. If you are CC on a legacy contract and earning £60k then a 50% cut to a take home of £30k is no problem - however if you are CC on a Mixed Fleet contract then a 50% cut to your current £25k pay is only going to leave you with £12,500 pa.

The CC Unions? As in Unite/BASSA? Because AFAIK the rumour is they simply refused right from the outset to get involved in any negotiations with BA.

Can anyone confirm/deny?

Raph737 8th Jun 2020 15:40

Nobox HR is recruiting A320 FO/Capt for an European client, to start ops in the UK and Spain during winter 2020.

Guess that those Gatwick slots should go to Vueling? Cynical move if itís Vueling, doubt they will disclose who the client is...

FlightDetent 8th Jun 2020 16:08

Perhaps the management is not fighting yesterday's war, i.e. COVID but rather the future lean Wizzair, 25% trimmed Ryanair, and the KLM-AF + LH mainland behemoths. Targeting not this season's cash flow, but the business' crew cost above the shrinking market share.

Ceterum censeo, UK should have a bill to disallow access to the market for any airline that runs a self-employed, social contribution evading, pilot contract scheme. Give your beancounters the resources to feed you, 35% is not a small fraction.
(the cost-saving they achieve without proper employment). This time is as good as any, such a rule could easily be attached to whatever emerges at the end of this.

Raph737 Exactly that, target the competition against which Vuelig's has been created, and perhaps this dog-eat-dog within IAG would cease. As hated as they are, I®ll take my bets AC and WW do not intend to piss of staff that is hard to replace.

eagle21 8th Jun 2020 16:09


Originally Posted by Raph737 (Post 10805893)
Nobox HR is recruiting A320 FO/Capt for an European client, to start ops in the UK and Spain during winter 2020.

Guess that those Gatwick slots should go to Vueling? Cynical move if itís Vueling, doubt they will disclose who the client is...

Nobox HR appear to be recruiting for Gowair, so not related to IAG in any way. See the end of this earlier thread:

https://www.pprune.org/terms-endearm...ecruiting.html

ďA friend of mine applied via Nobox, apparently itís for Gowair based in Madrid, no mention of a U.K. Airline/base despite it being advertised.

Seasonal contract November-April.Ē

FlipFlapFlop 8th Jun 2020 16:52


Originally Posted by TyroPicard (Post 10805429)
Hereís a radical idea which could also apply to a number of other industries.

1. Wake up and smell the coffee; the world is a different place for several years.
2. No redundancies.
3. Everybody takes a 30% pay cut. (It could be 40%, or 25%, thatís a guess, a starting figure).
4. Everybodyís working hours are cut by the same amount.

Result: everyone stays current and employed, (and well rested). As traffic increases so can working hours and pay levels.

3 and 4 have been suggested many times and raised to MPs as a reasonable solution.
BALPA are the only engaged union so CC unions not in place to drive through this an option.
There appears no appetite for this at all as a solution for pilots. Reason......it does not come close to satisfying BA managementís true objectives.....to rid them of PP24 and smash terms to the floor for ever.

JW411 8th Jun 2020 16:54

As an ex-Laker DC-10 captain who had his life ripped apart by Lord King and his merry men, I am finding this current BA situation quite fascinating.

wiggy 8th Jun 2020 17:20


Originally Posted by JW411 (Post 10805962)
As an ex-Laker DC-10 captain who had his life ripped apart by Lord King and his merry men, I am finding this current BA situation quite fascinating.

Dare I ask is that is "fascinating" spelt the German way, beginning with sch or are you empathising with those who weren't at BA (in fact possibly weren't born) when Lord King was in charge.

I hope it's the later.

Stone Cold II 8th Jun 2020 18:25

On LBC Iíve just heard they will be looking at the airline industry at 8pm tonight. WW will be on and they want people to phone in. Great opportunity to ask about their ethics with it going out live across the nation.


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:09.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.