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Captain on a King Air 350 or First Officer on an A320
Good evening chaps,
As the title says, I find myself in a position to choose between a Captain position on a King Air 350 or a First Officer position on an A320 with a low cost carrier in Europe. Both offers have their pros and cons but I am having a hard time deciding which one to go for. Which one do you think is the best option for my aviation career? Also, what is the average salary for a King Air Captain in Europe? I can't tell if the King Air offer is a good one or not because I don't have any data to compare it with. I tried to google it but the little information about the T&C I could find is either old or applicable in the USA. Thank you for your help. |
You got to do what is best for you. But, at the end of the day when the industry takes a downturn you will be far better placed to get a job somewhere on the planet with an A320 rating than you will with a kingair 350 rating. The other side of the coin is flying the kingair will be much more fun/scary |
The career move is no doubt the Airbus. But for the life experience take the king air... you have the rest of your life to sit in an airliner telling stories about when you flew a king air. 🤣
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Having flown the King Air for a few years I would take the A320 job. In Europe it seems King Air flying is not that well recognised amongst recruiters and even EASA seems to work against you. If you’re flying the King Air and wish to move on, it can take a while to make that move. If you’re flying an A320 there are many many more doors that are available for you to open. Salary - King Air Captain £70,000. Capital Air Ambulance are currently recruiting King Air Captains and pay £72,000. |
Go for the Airbus. Even if you have thousands of PIC hours on a King Air, you will most likely not get a chance to get a DEC position on a A320 later on.
So go for the A320 and you will have a type rating that gives you good career options. Of course it depends what you want for your career. |
Originally Posted by windypops
(Post 10406198)
Having flown the King Air for a few years I would take the A320 job. In Europe it seems King Air flying is not that well recognised amongst recruiters and even EASA seems to work against you. If you’re flying the King Air and wish to move on, it can take a while to make that move. If you’re flying an A320 there are many many more doors that are available for you to open. Salary - King Air Captain £70,000. Capital Air Ambulance are currently recruiting King Air Captains and pay £72,000. I suppose it depends on your personality and your age. If your priority is money first, take the airline job, if you enjoy the thrill of flying, take the King Air. If you can be satisfied with living today and not always seeking ‘more’, I think flying the KingAir wil provide the better memories. 70k is more than enough. In the past I have said the opposite, saying that you can always move down, but not up. In theory this may be true, but in practise it’s not that easy. Choose carefully and Good Luck. :ok: |
Age and family. If you still have plenty of years in the industry, get on the 320 ladder. There will always be Airbus contracts worldwide,its a great rating to hold. If you have close family, they might have a say if you have to move around. Airliner flying is probably more about money than excitement but many 320 operators fly long haul on the 330 and I enjoyed that for many years. |
Getting PIC experience is great for piloting skills and character development. However, if the aim is to get into the airlines later on, at least in europe, king air experience won't help there at all. But an A320 rating and hours on type will, or 737 for that matter.
The thrill of pure flying can be had on the side if one really wants that, i have colleagues flying mainly A320s and throwing people out of perfectly fine aircraft in their spare time, or going for glider competitions, or jumping from mountains or out of aircraft. And others are perfectly happy staying at home each night and working on their family life. In the end it is about quality of life, which does include remuneration, but also stuff like distance from home, time off, roster patterns and so on. And being on an A320 makes it very easy indeed to get onto other airbus types, a CCQ (cross crew qualification, abbreviated type rating course) is not really difficult and enables a quick and painless transition to the long haul world. |
A bit like a child actor, it is easy to get type-cast in the LHS of a TP after a few years. The first few thousand hours in your logbook are good but after that they will not make you any more employable. Take the hit hit now and within three or four years (depending on the operator) you will be earning the same as Kingair skipper but with still plenty of headroom for further pay rises in the LHS and/or training. Flying small TPs is in all likelihood more fun with more hand flying, more visual approaches etc but if you end up with one of the larger Locos you will still have the opportunity to fly to some challenging and rewarding destinations from Greek islands to Iceland and many points inbetween. |
Having done both, unless you are at either end of your career (very beginning with no family etc, or very end with no family to support any longer) take the Airbus. When you get made redundant (and you will, at some stage, everyone does) it’s much easier to keep your career running with an Airbus rating. My time in the left on light twins twins was great fun, learned a lot, scared myself and I think made me a better captain, but I’m not sure I’d recommend it as a long term option... |
If you wish an airline career at some point you will have to be a First Officer .... Seniority is the key with an airline career .
I flew Twin Otters loved it.... should I have remained? maybe, but having retired as a wide body CA my retirement is pretty good. I look in that rear view mirror and would change nothing ... Flew for an airline, laid off, went back to the Twin Otter for a couple of years Great time ... Probably will happen in your career Every company I flew for went tits up or restructured except the British Government job Other friends retired as Dash 7 Captains and I believe just as content as I in retirement Try the airline flying if it’s not for you go back to the turbo prop Just remember airline flying one moves up the pole via seniority. The sooner you get the seniority number the sooner you get the left seat of an airliner |
Just to point out the only reason Capital are offering such a high salary for a King Air Captain is because it is based in the Channel Islands; 70k doesn't go far when you consider the price of buying or renting a family home on Jersey. I think 45 to 55k is a more likely salary for a King Air pilot based in the UK mainland.
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If I had the choice to go back to 2003 and a choice between the twotter (seaplane in the sun) and the 737... the twotter it would be, life is full of mistakes.
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Depends where you want to end up in your flying career. I started mine as a F/O on a turboprop in Europe. Flying was fun, lot of sectors, lot of experience. But to find a job as an experienced F/O on a jet in a non-lowcost airline was a pain in the a... Most airlines want jet hours... |
I have flown most of my Career, different types of King Air. I love it, but it will not get you in anything bigger.
When i started flying Jets, i had to take the right seat in a Citation for quite a while, because managment thought i couldnt handle a Jet, after 3k hrs in KAs. These Kids ( FOM) would have Killed themselves, if thrown into a real live KA Operation ( Mountain strips day and night or 2000ft strips with obstacles in private ops, or..).... To step back from A320 to KA shouldnt be that great a Problem, except that you Need to learn to Fly again :-) And Payment for a KA Captain at least in my aerea is more in the Region of 50K € bevore Tax.... In some Special Ops you might earn as much as an Airline Captain, but this Companys look for Captains with 1000th hrs on type, not for fresh meat... |
The OP is asking what would be the best career move, not what would be the most fun. King Air flying can be fun, and even quite satisfying. But it is a 50 year old design and it is all too easy to end up locked into that type of operation. Usually salary is at least partly proportional to the revenue generated by the equipment. Hence, for career, go A320 FO, build seniority, get command. Approaching retirement is time enough to seek out the fun jobs. |
Go for the Airbus for sure
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If you really want to be an airline pilot then A320...Novelty wears off super quick, believe me!!
If you want QOL and to enjoy life and probably live at home with no commute and appreciate flying then the KA350 for sure. I flew both and flying a King Air was far more fun and rewarding in my opinion. I fly airlines now because I have a family to support but if I got a good King Air offer with decent roster and money I would leave airlines in a heartbeat, you aint missing anything! |
Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli
(Post 10409902)
The OP is asking what would be the best career move, not what would be the most fun. King Air flying can be fun, and even quite satisfying. But it is a 50 year old design and it is all too easy to end up locked into that type of operation. Usually salary is at least partly proportional to the revenue generated by the equipment. Hence, for career, go A320 FO, build seniority, get command. Approaching retirement is time enough to seek out the fun jobs. Will I be able to sustain my health throughout an airline career? My experience is that this is a serious question which must be asked. For me I think the passion slowly started dying when I started flying for airlines, I know others who manage to separate the bad side from the good, more power to them, unfortunately I couldn’t. Too many others I know have paid a dear price flying ‘the shiny jets’. |
Stan Woolley has a point. Whilst I've always been a business aviation pilot, a lot of former friends and colleagues have decided to go to the airlines - almost all of em have elected to go part time, since they thought they could not cope with "the grind". Most them missed the flying side of things as well - going from ILS to ILS, fully monitored and very often on the same routes time and again isn´t for everybody. Having the thrill of visuals, VFR flying, going into small airfields etcetc. is something I would not want to have missed. So if you maybe already have that experience it might be time for you to move on - a really though choice.
Some of my former colleagues love it (the airlining) though. I have my KingAir Rating now for 29 years and still enjoy flying this airplane as a freelancer from time to time. The first 14 years of my career I spent on the KA as my main type and I enjoyed it a lot. Got to say that one learns to enjoy an APU as well - which the KA does not feature... One thing was (and I think still is) true for sure: going "down" from the airlines to GA is way easier than vice versa. Most airline recruiters will not recognize your hours at least toward a command, that was always the case and if you are "aging" than the window to go airline will get more narrow by the day, and a command with sometimes really long times in the right seat might be unattainable at some point. |
Think about your age, what you want in future and what lifestyle you wish to have.
Personally, I'd prefer the stability of the airlines, but many others prefer the thrill. Airbus or Boeing, both great opportunities for longer term. King Air, I'm not sure... |
Not sure how old you are or your background etc. Or what both packages offer. But I would 100% go for the airbus. It gives you so many options down the road if you wanted to move to long haul and so much more security and flexibility as to where you want to live etc etc. Airbus ratings are like gold. When I initially started out my flying training, I did not want a jet job and had dreams of becoming this amazing turbo prop pilot. In the end I gained my ATPL right at the start of a recession and the only job available was on a jet. But this has made me much more employable. I genuinally feel like you have to look at longevity, sure airline flying is probably more boring than flying a King Air around, but I imagine the fun will fade after years of doing either. Not to mention the higher risk factor of flying single pilot. That aside, maybe I’m wrong but I feel an airline would generally be able to offer a better work/home life balance. |
Biggest regret of my life, not just my working life, was deciding not to self-fund a BAe 146 rating when I was offered a job subject to getting the rating.
At the time, I decided I'd go LHS on a B99 for a few more years in order to get the cash to pay for the rating and an eventual career on jets. Result - I ended up spending the last 25 years of my flying life on a collection of very tired F27s and ATRs because it was too late to make the change by then. Good Luck with what ever you decide.... |
Skipname Interesting thread as you can see by the response to your question. Is it the Kingair 350 Captain or. Airbus 320 First Officer ????? |
Originally Posted by FLCHG
(Post 10411101)
Skipname Interesting thread as you can see by the response to your question. Is it the Kingair 350 Captain or. Airbus 320 First Officer ????? I haven't made a decision yet but after careful consideration of the pros and cons and taking into account your advice I am leaning towards the King Air job. The reason for this choice is that I still have well over 30 years until retirement, maybe even 40 years depending on how quickly the retirement age increases and I would like to have some more fun flying while I can. The job itself is very interesting and I have some friends working there that have only great things to say about the company and how they are treated. Soon I will be going back for some negotiations on the contract and depending on the result of those negotiations I will make my decision. The A320 job is nothing to be excited about except the fact that it is a shiny jet and within 4-5 years I could be a captain on it. It is with a low cost European carrier where I will be flying the maximum number of hours allowed per year and people have quite a few complaints about the company. Neither jobs give me the chance to be based at home. |
The only King Air pilot I have come across in almost two decades of career was a former King Air check Captain that payed almost 50k on top of self funding his TR to a quite dodgy PTF 320 operator to fly on the right seat, and this was at the zenit of the good times for recruitment.
This should pretty much draw the picture for your future. |
Take the Airbus job, get command, go part after a couple of years and fly a King Air as a freelancer. |
King air command hours will be pretty useless to move on. low cos don’t value this experience as they can get cadets to pay and do the job with no experience . take the airbus, use some of the cash to rent an extra at the weekend if you want the “ thrill of flying “ |
Excuse my ignorant and off-topic question.
From what I understand from this thread is that King Air 350 hours (or anything similar) are useless when applying for jets. On the other had I can see a lot ot topics here in PPRuNe stating that it's not right that people with zero hours, fresh out of CPL/ATPL schools are being offered right seats in "shiny new jets". I think my question is following - what is "right way" to get to that A320 or B737 F/O position? Your non-jet hours are useless, yet going straight to the airline seems to be endangering the flying public. I am sorry if I sound offensive, but I do not intend to. I just want to understand the logic behind that catch 22. & |
Non-jet hours are not useless - in fact there are old crusties like myself who would prefer to employ pilots who had a couple of thousand hours of 'real' flying under their belts, as we recognise that there is no substitute for experience.
But we are not the ones who employ now. Recruitment is all in the hands of Beancounters, Human Remains and Shrinks. Beancounters want pilots to self-fund type ratings and work long hours for little remuneration. Human Remains want pilots to touch their forelock and show that they will do as bidded, without ever questioning authority. Shrinks need to be convinced that the candidate possesses 'soft' skills like empathy, has faith in all beings and knows the value of a high five or fist bump after every landing. Above all - and quite reasonably - airlines want the candidate to be trained THEIR way from day one, not come in with preconceived notions of how it should be done. The longer someone flies single pilot in the likes of a King Air the better pilot he or she may become, but also habits and expectations will develop which may not be to an airline's liking or 'culture' . Properly trained 200 hour cadets have shown that they can master modern jets to the extent required of a co-pilot. Hence, you either make the move to airlines as soon as you can, or risk being shut out . There is nothing to be gained by becoming 'overqualified' and much to be lost by squandering potential seniority. |
Originally Posted by Sholayo
(Post 10413918)
I am sorry if I sound offensive, but I do not intend to. I just want to understand the logic behind that catch 22.
I don't want to drift the thread away from the OP question: what is better career wise? I gave him a real life example of a case exactly like his. He needs to be informed before deciding. Hats off for wanting to learn to fly properly early in his career though! |
Most of you seem to expect a KA350 a Single Pilot Job. Honestly, that problably wont be the Case. In almost all Operations in Europe, a KA is a Multicrew Job and the Relatively Rare KA 350 is for sure, at least in Europe.
Your Experience wont be recognized either and even in Business Aviation will preclude you from flying Jets. Otherwise flying might be fun, or not, depending on OPs. If you fly private 1hr flights, between 5 known Destinations, than not. If you fly in a Commercial OPs all over Europe, then Yes. |
This is a 'heart or head' question. We mostly realise that in commercial flying lifestyle is the most precious factor the older you become, especially when wife/family issues compete for our attention and money. Having done everything from GA to Widebody long haul, I'm glad to have done the GA when I was young and SH when I had a young family and LH now I'm older. 3 days on a Caribbean layover beats 6 sector turboprop days when you are knocking 60!
So, heart says KingAir, head says a320. The overarching fact is that it is much easier to go back down the aviation feeding chain, than it is to go up it. |
Originally Posted by macdo
(Post 10414669)
This is a 'heart or head' question. We mostly realise that in commercial flying lifestyle is the most precious factor the older you become, especially when wife/family issues compete for our attention and money. Having done everything from GA to Widebody long haul, I'm glad to have done the GA when I was young and SH when I had a young family and LH now I'm older. 3 days on a Caribbean layover beats 6 sector turboprop days when you are knocking 60!
So, heart says KingAir, head says a320. The overarching fact is that it is much easier to go back down the aviation feeding chain, than it is to go up it. The bolded sentence maybe to your liking, but perhaps not to all of us. It may sound like a glamorous tv advert to a young single guy, but to me it sounds more like a pain in the proverbial. I’m 58 now, and haven’t flown since I had a stroke eight years ago, that has allowed me a lot of time to ponder this sort of thing. You forget to mention the likely deep night flight back from the Caribbean, at 58 I think that alone would balance out the positives! :eek: The hours between 11 and 7 are definitely not meant for flying when over the age of 40! (In my opinion). As you know, I’ve done my fair share of night flying around Europe in King Airs (National) and night Tenerife’s in Boeing’s (Britannia)as well as a taste of long haul, which inevitably means working round the clock. I think the success or otherwise of this decision will depend a lot on the OPs nature. Looking back, I can see that I was blinded by ambition, to get into the left seat of a jet asap, or any seat of a jet!! It wasn’t money that drove me, I don’t really know what it was, possibly ego? I now wish I had really slowed down to enjoy the journey more, rather than the end game, which turned out not to be all I hoped it might - did I really think about it? When I ‘eventually’ arrived, I had nowhere to go, I got bored! The lowcost airlines have certainly changed things. Paying a lot of dough to get into the right seat of a 320 or 737, then the potential to earn enough back is possible if you are sensible. I wasn’t. I watched the young guys get their commands with 3000hrs or even less, where I had taken nearly 7k to get a direct entry command with Easy, coming as a FO from the charter world. It made me think, where now for these youngsters in their 20s? I might be looking back through rose tinted glasses at things in some ways. I would say follow your heart rather than your head. It may mean you don’t end up with a great pension, or a Porsche as a second car. But I think you will remember more of the flying you do, and more of the people you meet along the way. You should be comfy enough with a BMW, and a modest detached house. I guess it can be summed up by asking if you would prefer dinking weak coffee that means the tin lasts longer or strong coffee that you enjoy and to hell with what happens when it runs out! Then again, it’s a great feeling lining up, standing them up and pressing TOGA in a big jet! ;) Life is a gift, live for today. Anything might happen! (Are you who I think you are, G?) |
Originally Posted by Stan Woolley
(Post 10414765)
Your last sentence may be theoretically true, but how many have you known that have actually gone that way rather than simply talk about it? The bolded sentence maybe to your liking, but perhaps not to all of us. It may sound like a glamorous tv advert to a young single guy, but to me it sounds more like a pain in the proverbial. I’m 58 now, and haven’t flown since I had a stroke eight years ago, that has allowed me a lot of time to ponder this sort of thing. You forget to mention the likely deep night flight back from the Caribbean, at 58 I think that alone would balance out the positives! :eek: The hours between 11 and 7 are definitely not meant for flying when over the age of 40! (In my opinion). As you know, I’ve done my fair share of night flying around Europe in King Airs (National) and night Tenerife’s in Boeing’s (Britannia)as well as a taste of long haul, which inevitably means working round the clock. I think the success or otherwise of this decision will depend a lot on the OPs nature. Looking back, I can see that I was blinded by ambition, to get into the left seat of a jet asap, or any seat of a jet!! It wasn’t money that drove me, I don’t really know what it was, possibly ego? I now wish I had really slowed down to enjoy the journey more, rather than the end game, which turned out not to be all I hoped it might - did I really think about it? When I ‘eventually’ arrived, I had nowhere to go, I got bored! The lowcost airlines have certainly changed things. Paying a lot of dough to get into the right seat of a 320 or 737, then the potential to earn enough back is possible if you are sensible. I wasn’t. I watched the young guys get their commands with 3000hrs or even less, where I had taken nearly 7k to get a direct entry command with Easy, coming as a FO from the charter world. It made me think, where now for these youngsters in their 20s? I might be looking back through rose tinted glasses at things in some ways. I would say follow your heart rather than your head. It may mean you don’t end up with a great pension, or a Porsche as a second car. But I think you will remember more of the flying you do, and more of the people you meet along the way. You should be comfy enough with a BMW, and a modest detached house. I guess it can be summed up by asking if you would prefer dinking weak coffee that means the tin lasts longer or strong coffee that you enjoy and to hell with what happens when it runs out! Then again, it’s a great feeling lining up, standing them up and pressing TOGA in a big jet! ;) Life is a gift, live for today. Anything might happen! (Are you who I think you are, G?) The standard career path is to get onto the jet, then get a command, then consider the options from that position. At that point personal attitudes to do with lifestyle vs income vs ambition can be addressed. If LH doesn't suit, plenty of SH jobs to choose from and vice versa. Training yes or no. Management yes or no. But you have to get to the position where choice is available in the first place. That is difficult to achieve from the left seat of a KingAir (IMHO). As it happens, I have known 3 people leave big carriers to return to Turbo prop flying. All for lifestyle reasons, and all were much happier to live on their reduced income. The point you make about the young men and women who have joined the LoCo's at an early age and have had rapid advancement, is very pertinent. Anecdotally, I have heard of increasing levels of dis-satisfaction and burn-out amongst these people. It would be interesting to know if they are beginning to vote with their feet and what type of decisions they are making to improve their lifestyles. The point being, that as a 35 year old skipper of a European A320, you have more choices available than the equivalent KingAir pilot. All the best! |
Originally Posted by macdo
(Post 10414828)
I can't disagree with anything that either of us have stated. The advantage that we have, is the perspective which age and experience have taught us.
The standard career path is to get onto the jet, then get a command, then consider the options from that position. At that point personal attitudes to do with lifestyle vs income vs ambition can be addressed. If LH doesn't suit, plenty of SH jobs to choose from and vice versa. Training yes or no. Management yes or no. But you have to get to the position where choice is available in the first place. That is difficult to achieve from the left seat of a KingAir (IMHO). As it happens, I have known 3 people leave big carriers to return to Turbo prop flying. All for lifestyle reasons, and all were much happier to live on their reduced income. The point you make about the young men and women who have joined the LoCo's at an early age and have had rapid advancement, is very pertinent. Anecdotally, I have heard of increasing levels of dis-satisfaction and burn-out amongst these people. It would be interesting to know if they are beginning to vote with their feet and what type of decisions they are making to improve their lifestyles. The point being, that as a 35 year old skipper of a European A320, you have more choices available than the equivalent KingAir pilot. All the best! All good stuff. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by speedrestriction
(Post 10406876)
A bit like a child actor, it is easy to get type-cast in the LHS of a TP after a few years. The first few thousand hours in your logbook are good but after that they will not make you any more employable. Take the hit hit now and within three or four years (depending on the operator) you will be earning the same as Kingair skipper but with still plenty of headroom for further pay rises in the LHS and/or training. Flying small TPs is in all likelihood more fun with more hand flying, more visual approaches etc but if you end up with one of the larger Locos you will still have the opportunity to fly to some challenging and rewarding destinations from Greek islands to Iceland and many points inbetween. |
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