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Norwegian - Courses Cancelled
A guy i had in the SIM a couple of times who was due to join us in the New Year has just received this email, is this the writing on the wall for all of us at Norwegian? There is a management meeting on the 7th Jan to discuss more base closures etc, it is not looking good.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3095f44852.jpg
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
(Post 10341275)
I think writing on the wall is a bit extreme.
The expansion has been consistent and not exactly small, perhaps an adjustment of the expansion plans isn't a bad idea! Seen several internal things with regards to there being progress with the 'joint venture ' etc. Will there be changes coming? Feels like. Doesn't necessarily spell doom and gloom. |
Rolls Royce is not doing too well...
Oil guzzling triple core engines 747 Failures on final 777 Exploding during climb 380 And now the 787 problems I hope they get through this.... |
They’ll have lost a fortune at Gatwick yesterday too. Apparently they have ten days to receive new equity or they’re in breach of banking covenants. Read into that what you will. Of course someone could pump more money in (and very probably will) but at this stage I think it’s good money after bad, the Long Haul Low Cost model just doesn’t work. I don’t know how many more times people can try or would after this (they will) but it’s got a proven track record of failure. Norwegian are barely profitable in the good times and we’re about to move into some highly uncertain times. |
Originally Posted by Piscator
(Post 10341342)
Rolls Royce is not doing too well...
Oil guzzling triple core engines 747 Failures on final 777 Exploding during climb 380 And now the 787 problems I hope they get through this.... |
Originally Posted by jonesyinthesky
(Post 10341269)
A guy i had in the SIM a couple of times who was due to join us in the New Year has just received this email, is this the writing on the wall for all of us at Norwegian? There is a management meeting on the 7th Jan to discuss more base closures etc, it is not looking good.https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3095f44852.jpg
dissing your employer. Just goes to show the grass is not always green. |
About due another recession, especiy as the last one never really ended bar for stupid low interest rates.
I woul personally be very careful to consider weather it is a good time to jump ship or not depending on who your current employer is? |
Originally Posted by Council Van
(Post 10342278)
About due another recession, especiy as the last one never really ended bar for stupid low interest rates.
I woul personally be very careful to consider weather it is a good time to jump ship or not depending on who your current employer is? |
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It is a good decision to “take a breather” and review the company and trim it. At least the management is aware of it, why this plan has been put into effect. From what i have been told new 787’s will be covering for the AOG 787 awaiting engine changes. |
I am curious, what is there to trim exactly? I might be an external observer but it seems to me like the company is not exactly spending left right and center.
Not much in terms of pilots salary and crew hotel accomodation I would say, the conditions I have seen are already far from great on both fleets. |
It's a good decision to take a breather......
Tell that to the pilots who were working their notice, and perhaps their current employer would not allow them to withdraw their notice? Again Norwegian reacting without thought to how they are going to effect people's lives. |
I sent my CV to Norwegian before summer and was offered an assessment which I never booked.
Occasionally they email me with the application form again asking me to complete it - which I ignore. I find it odd that they emailed me with the same form this morning given the above. |
Originally Posted by Globally Challenged
(Post 10346719)
I sent my CV to Norwegian before summer and was offered an assessment which I never booked.
Occasionally they email me with the application form again asking me to complete it - which I ignore. I find it odd that they emailed me with the same form this morning given the above. |
It's a good decision to take a breather...... Tell that to the pilots who were working their notice, and perhaps their current employer would not allow them to withdraw their notice? Again Norwegian reacting without thought to how they are going to effect people's lives |
Calypso, I think the company's issues are far deeper than not employing pilots it had promised jobs. If taking on those who have handed in notices or who have done so and have started type ratings will bring the company to it's knees then you're all fubar'd
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it says in the email you wil be refunded all cost...what exactly are you paying for??
Originally Posted by Speedbrakes Up
(Post 10346629)
It's a good decision to take a breather......
Tell that to the pilots who were working their notice, and perhaps their current employer would not allow them to withdraw their notice? Again Norwegian reacting without thought to how they are going to effect people's lives. |
Originally Posted by TangoAlphad
(Post 10341275)
I think writing on the wall is a bit extreme.
The expansion has been consistent and not exactly small, perhaps an adjustment of the expansion plans isn't a bad idea! Seen several internal things with regards to there being progress with the 'joint venture ' etc. Will there be changes coming? Feels like. Doesn't necessarily spell doom and gloom. |
It amazes me just how deeply some people have their heads in the sand when it comes to Norwegian. The fundamental issue is that the business model doesn’t work....they haven’t suddenly hit upon some magic formula that no one else was aware of. You cannot build a fleet of very expensive aircraft, expand the way they have and do it charging £170 to fly to the West Coast of the US. The ‘defenders of the faith’ are here blaming everything but the elephant in the room...if 1 airport closing for 1 day can almost push you under then there are very very serious problems with your business. I believe it is only still here because its owners are too proud to admit their crack at the low cost long haul experiment has failed yet again, and keep throwing good money after bad. It’s only a matter of time until the whole shooting match collapses. |
Originally Posted by ironbutt57
(Post 10347036)
divesting 140 airplanes is indeed an "adjustment"
As for the rest of the discussion, we are going in circles. But let me quote Enrique Dupuy de Lômet, CFO of IAG, when the latter aquired a 4.6 percent stake in Norwegian back in april : “IAG considers Norwegian to be an attractive investment” “The minority investment is intended to establish a position from which to initiate discussions with Norwegian, including the possiblity of a full offer for Norwegian” |
So why haven’t they (IAG) gone ahead with it? If you have to sell a vast number of aircraft to give you the cash flow to keep your “business model” afloat that’s a pretty sure sign that things aren’t going too well. Norwegian have an eye watering amount of debt. Investors have put some money in to stop them defaulting on banking covenants this time around, that hasn’t solved the issue of the debt, nor does it solve the problem that Norwegian aren’t making enough money in the North Atlantic Summer to offset their huge losses in the winter. Who knew? They’re selling flights of 10h+ for £150 for god’s sake, do you really believe that that is a profitable business model just because the 787 burns a little less fuel? At this point any further investment/cash is just kicking the can a little further down the road. What you have to remember is that investors like these are basically hedging, it’s a punt and they’ll gain somewhere else in another venture if the Norwegian investment goes down the toilet, which many analysts argue is only a matter of time. |
I agree with RB. The only people who throw good money after bad into airlines are Governments and people who need to be saved from themselves.
Most successful investors will run a mile from most airlines. |
The ECB are now forecasting a sluggish looking 1.7% GDP growth in the Eurozone next year. ECB QE just stopped. The Fed will raise rates. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/13/euro...or-europe.html A perfect storm for NAS. To top it off their expensive but fuel efficient fleet ain’t looking so marvelous at just $55 for Brent crude. Willie Walsh isn’t their to rescue it, he’s there to kill it. WWW |
Weasl
Do you seriously think Lufthansa will let that happen? They have shown interest. |
Corporate shadow boxing. WWW |
Nah. Big egos playing to see who has the biggest aviation group in Europe. If you buy NAS and close it down you don't achieve anything wizzair or transavia or whoever would just grow to fill the gap. IAG wants to be the biggest and to grow it needs to buy up smaller players. NAS + VLG are bigger than Easyjet and makes IAG the 2nd biggest player in European Low cost shorthaul. Keeping the separate brands gives the appearance of choice to consumers while taking advantage of economies of scale. It also fills a gap that cannot then be filled by other competitors. In the other hand a large airline is quite a good hedge to a large oil company hence the Norwegian sovereign fund is not letting go that easily, unlike other investors they are in a position to take the long view.
Low cost long haul is just a marketing concept, quite a nice one if it helps you to promote brand awareness and drives consumers to your website. Norwegian does not really need to be low cost to benefit from the low cost label, specially since there isn't really any benchmark as to what constitutes low cost in long haul. Not may tickets sold at low cost prices I suspect. Proof of that is they have increased the size of the premium cabin which tends to be quite full. |
directmisbi and RexBanner You’re both quite active on this thread and I find both your post quite informative and credible - so I am, like other aviation colleaques left not knowing what to think about Norwegian.... My honest opinion is that Norwegian offers a superior product when asking value for money - that surely is part of the problem..... Having gone through the available material on Norwegian homepage for investor relations a whole lot of questions come to mind, hopefully some are able to answer objectively.
With significant amount of respect for Mr. Kjos I would hope that the Director of the Board, in due time appoints a new CEO with no feelings involved. Mr. Kjos has done what many pilots dream of - started and run his own airline - and what an establishment he has created. He has and probably still is running it with norwegian style dignity. Happy new year to all :ok: |
Originally Posted by calypso
(Post 10347595)
NAS + VLG are bigger than Easyjet and makes IAG the 2nd biggest player in European Low cost shorthaul.
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Winter is coming. WWW |
Fascinating, I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by Wee Weasley Welshman
(Post 10347632)
Winter is coming. WWW The question is, where does the central banks go. This “recovery” has been built on zero rates and printed money. Apologies for thread drift. |
Long winter
Easter in April , second quarter. |
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