DHL and Brexit
 

Hi all,

Heard a tale today of communication between DHL management and pilots saying that if Britain leaves the EU the EMA hub will close.

Is this scaremongering or does leaving the Eu have significant problems for airlines?

You have to ask if DHL operates from any other countries outside the EU; you then have the answer to your Q.

I seriously doubt this. There is considerable investment going on at EMA at the moment with a huge expansion of the DHL facility.

Lots of surprises coming up for the island if they leave, that's for sure. And saved money for us mainlanders, at least the central European Net payers, so I guess loose/win situation ^^ .

I still remember the discussion about Scotland leaving the UK. Well, UK said all contracts will be re-negotiated and some things even would not belong to the Scots(oil for example). So, guess what will happen if the UK leaves. Of course all agreements are void. Everything else would not shine a nice light onto our good and useful EU politicians. And they want to be re-voted next time back home...

To be honest, that might not be a big factor, they did the same in the US and then pulled out of the market altogether, Amazon is now enjoying the spoils by moving into their facilities with their own freight business.

Hi, Nick14. I've heard nothing of the sort, and you'll forgive me if I say that this is not a helpful thing just to throw out there? There is ongoing discussion on exactly how Brexit would affect things but I just don't believe that the EMA hub/base would close.

I guess BA, Easy etc will all be asking the same questions.

Out of interest, where did you get your information?

It came from an EMA DHL pilot's mouth.

I was not trying to upset anyone but you can understand my concern as a fellow aviator over all the hype I want to vote the right way hence my attempt to gather some more information.

If a member state votes to leave, there is a 2 year transition period where all current protocols/laws/deals remain in place. So nothing would change overnight.

People will still need to send parcels, life goes on, dhl as a business will simply adapt as required.

Denti. DHL very much in the US market, though by no means market leader. I think the Wilmington episode was less than glorious, but the current hub in Cincinnati is massive.

Nick14. Thanks. My take on things at moonbase Castle Donington is info gathering on the effects of Brexit to help make an informed decision.

There is not Necessarily a two year transition period. That must be agreed by both parties. The fact that everybody always says "but there's a two year transition" suggests people do not really want to Brexit.

"It came from an EMA DHL pilot's mouth."

They must be privy to this info then cos neither I nor any of my colleagues have heard such a thing. Usual barrack room lawyers scaremongering I suspect.

Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

I don't think the EMA hub will close, it will still be operating as the UK hub within the UK and to and from the EU. Apart from that I think the plan for the investment at EMA has been made before the Brexit plans.
But it will effect DHK as they cannot fly within the EU anymore, so DHK would be rather useless and the AOC might be transferred to another country.
At the moment none knows whats gonna happen.

I think its a legitmate topic to discuss.

Now I'm no expert on EU law or what happens at DHL Air UK management, but I doubt it would simply be business as usual if Brexit happens. However i don't think the operation will shut down, rather I expect it will adapt to a different operation model or market. Moving the AOC as mentioned before, seems like an interesting point.

More likely they would expand the UK base and make use of the lower tax rates.

nobody knows how this will affect the country let alone DHL. I suspect it would be a close vote.

Perhaps if the vote is "Out", and DHL cant operate as they currently are, maybe the best case scenario is they keep the operation on the G register and make EMA the base for everyone.

Just to mention this again, because it doesn't seem very clear. DHK can not operate the way they do now after a Brexit. We can go from and to the EU from EMA, but we cannot operate within the EU anymore. So making EMA the main base is more or less senseless.
Leipzig is and will be the main base, so there will be a solution and I think it could be a new AOC. The UK AOC is not needed, as flights to the UK can be operated from the EU to EMA etc by any operator, no need to keep DHK the way it is. EMA hub of course will stay, because it doesn't mean that we not gonna send parcels to the UK anymore. Interesting will be what will happen to the pilots? EU pilots, could just move over to the new AOC, British pilots, due to lack of working permit in the EU can not!

What ever tax you are talking about, being a german company, DHL has to pay taxes in germany anyway, no matter of their base.

If the EU follows up on its promises to clamp down on the tax loopholes and there is a Brexit...who knows.

https://next.ft.com/content/e7c430d6...f-8231cd71622e

@Fred, I am talking about DHL in this topic, I don't care if EU Pilots can still fly for easyjet or any other UK carrier. But of course you are right on that, EU passport holders flying for UK companies will have a problem. But this one is about DHL.

I'd worry about it if/when it happens.
EAM probably best to concentrate on being a pilot and leave others to worry about brexit.

All EU nationals currently working in the UK with mortgages etc will of course be given work permits because it is Britain voting for the Brexit. This of course will not be reciprocated because no individual EU nation requires British Pilots. A British Pilot voting out is the proverbial Turkey voting for Christmas.

No, I am not 9, are you?

@Mr Angry you are probably right, why do I worry about it. If they wanna leave, then leave. Who cares.

I think "horsebox" might usefully have quoted clause 4 of article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty, for that is the killer.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

Let's never forget that DHK is above all a political animal, created with the intention of never having to rely on a single AOC for European lift. As such, should a Brexit result in UK based airlines losing their free and unhindered access to intra-EU flying, a UK AOC would no longer fulfil it's main objective.

My guess would be a transfer of assets to an EU based AOC. It will not be German, however, EAT Belgium might be revived for that purpose - they're building a brand new hub there as well. UK nationals without the right to work in the EU will, obviously, be adversely affected by such a move. The EMA hub might very well continue to operate, but on which scale will largely depend on what kind of customs deal the UK can land with the EU.