Terms and Endearment
 

Sadly PPRuNe and the moderators on this forum willingly allow misinformation and outright lies about companies various.

Beware that "your news on pay, rostering, allowances...etc." is badly skewed in favour of contributors who know little or nothing about the companies that they post about and are mostly disaffected rejects.

This could be a brilliant forum and useful, but it is not - bull**** is allowed to prosper and is seemingly encouraged. If you attempt to highlight the misinformation you will be gagged whilst the bull****ters reign freely.

Perhaps the mods should put themselves in the shoes of the job hunters and show a bit of empathy or this forum will do exactly the opposite of its intended purpose.

Chesty..wtf? This website looks like controlled by IATA and its heavily censored. I think the truth about many airlines is even worse than depicted here . This profession is falling under the axe of greedy wolves and their minions and I suspect you are one.

The censorship is misplaced. This could be a useful forum. It's a shame that it isn't.

Chesty Morgan you are missing the point here, just because your views differ from some of the others doesn't mean the others are wrong.

The beauty about this sub forum is you can find the positives and the negatives. This allows people to make a balanced decision if it's worth applying.

Wouldn't it be bad if for example you think you are joining a friendly airline with very quiet rosters and quick career progression.
Only to realise after your have joined; the airline grounds people left right and center, you work your arse off in the summer with the only constant being the continuous roster changes while only the winters are quiet and stable and only to realise when you apply for your upgrade only 40% makes the command selection because the company prefers direct entry captains.

Not that such an airline would exist but you can see why its beneficial to share both the positive and negative views, both being taken with a pinch of salt.

I was thinking similar things recently.

I do think some of the targeted attacks on certain airlines should be reigned in - and I think the ones that spring to my mind are the same ones that has brought Chesty to make this topic. Now I'm not saying that bad things shouldn't be said about an airline - but it should at least attempt to be kept informative to people who are browsing for information or discussion, and not descend into constant over the top negativity and hatred, whilst calling anyone who has anything positive to say 'naive', 'trolls' or 'management'.

By all means let everyone know the bad points, but allow it to be your own opinion and not forced upon everyone else - sometimes by people who admit to not having worked for the outfit.

There will always be negativity from within and it occurred to me recently, as someone who has recently been looking for employment in the UK that you get told the following:

BA - Time to command, low morale, bidline dead, balpa useless etc
Easyjet - some awful contracts, instability at times, freezes etc
Ryanair - It's FR why would you, contracts, pay, company attitude etc
Jet2 - Roster disruption, old airplanes, company attitude, low morale etc
Thomson - PPY50, pension, time to command, bonding etc
Norwegian - Forced leave, pay, conditions, contracts etc

You probably get the gist.

For each airline you look at you will be called a fool for looking at it and at the same time be called a fool for being where you currently are.

Jet2, this isn't about somebody having a different opinion to me, I'm old enough to not be bothered with that. It is about people pronouncing, as fact, lies or misinformation, intentionally and for a laugh, which is then allowed to remain despite being disputed. The factual and disputing post is then removed.

What kind of information are people getting then?

I'm quite happy to see factual and truthful posts regardless of how ugly they may be.

For the 'factual and truthful' minded this should probably be ammended to:

BA - Time to Long Haul command, low morale on Short Haul, bidline dead, balpa useless etc.

All in the eyes of 'factualness' of course.

:E

(feel free to delete/modify/move etc...)

You forgot one

Wizz Air - How long have you got?

;)

BA - Time to command, low morale, bidline dead, balpa useless etc

Time to command perhaps shortest ever.

low morale? depends who you speak to

bidline dead? still far more control over life than my previous operator.

Chaps, I think you're either missing my point or showing how it should be done.

I wasn't attempting to paint a factual picture of airlines listed there, I was pointing out what people will tell you as reasons to stay away and some people will refuse to acknowledge the pros of said airlines either because they have a vendetta, they are trolling, they are bitter or some other (perhaps more reasonable) reason.

You could say that Ryanair is great because you are at back at base every night with a fixed stable roster flying new airplanes etc etc.

Unless I myself have missed the point of the original post - It is the people that are intent on spewing negativity to the point were they are unhelpful and/or untruthful, sometimes without even having experienced the place that needs to be eradicated.

The problem you have is that every persons post is objective only from their particular viewpoint.

I've been flying for 29 years now and I've managed to bumble through my career mainly enjoying what I've done. There have been some ups and downs along the way but my personality is such that I make the best out of a bad situation when possible.

I have come across many, many characters who will bemoan, fight and argue every change, rule and SOP going just to make a point. That's what floats their boat.

On a public, open forum that requires no validation you will always get bluffers, liars, walter mitty characters etc. The moderators do their best to weed out the utter rubbish whilst trying to leave the majority be it right or wrong, in the thread.

There are also some companies working behind the scenes I would assume trying to use libel and slander legislation to have personal posts removed as they might affect their business.

I can see it being a very fine line to tread.

Can't get overly fussed about it myself.

I don't really see what the big deal is, you/we read a load of crap in the tabloids every day of the week. An internet bulletin board is going to be no different and for it to thoroughly p1ss people off only dictates that they really should get out more. Chesty the reason your alter ego was banned (LSM) was because you antagonised people, ok some stuff that gets posted might not necessarily be 100% factual, but to the posters it may appear to be so until they are educated otherwise. You had a knack of winding people up the wrong way with your condescending remarks, it's not what you say but rather the tone in which it's conveyed. At the end of the day this is the internet, and if you're old enough not to be bothered, as stated in post #6 then you should be old enough to have a bull**** filter with which you know what to take in and know what to ignore. Have you noticed that it's only yourself with the issue? Nobody else really gives a monkey's. There's far more important things in life to worry about, there really is.

Terms
 

CC. An Excellent post IMO.
Perhaps the asthmatic Welshman might learn something? No, probably not.

I agree with Chesty Morgan that a lot of rubbish and misinformation is written on these forums and also suspect that much of it might well be written by 'disaffected rejects'.

Where I disagree is that 'the moderators on this forum willingly allow misinformation and outright lies about companies various'. This is, after all, a 'Rumour Network' and it is up to the reader to sort the 'wheat from the chaff'. As Wirbelsturm says, 'There are also some companies working behind the scenes I would assume trying to use libel and slander legislation to have personal posts removed as they might affect their business.'

Wirbelsturm my sentiments exactly.

CC, you've missed the point. This isn't about me or LSM (who isn't banned as far as I can see) and the way I post. This is about fellow pilots misleading other pilots with lies and misinformation, just for a laugh in some cases. I am not the only one who has a problem with it, you've confused silence with being not bothered.

I am well aware of what should be ignored and what shouldn't but unfortunately not everyone is, after all they do come here for clarity, and they are being intentionally deceived by our colleagues. That's what grips my **** and it's shameful that it's allowed to happen and is even encouraged by at least one moderator who actually partakes as well. This is supposed to be a website for Professional Pilots.

I take it you think lying and deceiving your compatriots is ok just because this is the internet?

Fantastic! So much wind-up material...INCOMING!
 

This will be more fun than watching him get all 'huffy' when his weird employer is criticised!

Chesty - you need a hobby!

Sean.
You are clearly in a far better place now.
lucky you.
Let it go, eh.

How come there are so many people on pprune who feel so disgruntled about this friendly Northern airline. Before in this topic they are referred to as 'disaffected rejects' I beg to differ and expect, apart from a few, most are either current or former employees as can be made up from the information they post.

On the other hand I've never seen so many managers from base captain and TRI (sorry TRE now) level to fleet chief level trying to defend the same company making it sound like they are the preferred airline to work for.

Who is right? Both sides think they are right judging Chesty Morgen and Sean Dillon his/her posts. With the retention rate I know which side I favour.

Sean and Jet2, as much as you'd like to make this about a particular airline (thereby proving my point) it's not.

No I haven't missed the point, if you want to get uptight about things that happen on pprune then you seriously need to get out more. We are deceived every day of our lives, I read bull**** every day of my life but I've yet to come across pilots posting lies and mis information just for a laugh on here, even if they did so what? It just gets ignored and I move to the next post. I won't start a one man crusade about it because I have better things to do.

Really? How do you work that out? If people are silent how do you know they have a problem with it? I'd suggest that readers & posters of this forum would probably read it, shake their heads and move on without getting uptight about it, and those who do have an issue would probably post about it like you have, yet unsurprisingly your thread is the only one I've ever seen about the issue, and it's hardly glowing with members backing you up. Doesn't that tell you a story?

Then I'd suggest until only professional pilots post here the problem isn't going to go away anytime soon. It's obvious you can't control your blood pressure on here anymore (as is evident with your LSM account) so isn't it easier not to bother reading the forum?

Are you assuming or stating a fact? The bottom line is this forum takes up about 0.00001% of my attention, I couldn't give a flying toss what's posted by other people so long as they don't attack me, all I do is filter the bull**** and move on down.
If this forum is an important part of your life then continue your one man crusade, just don't expect others to join your army, because like me they've probably got more important things to worry about, my Give A Toss O'Meter is flat lining.

CC

No you don't give a toss because it doesn't affect you. I'm alright Jack. :yuk:

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it hasn't happened and you're aware of the PM Function no doubt? That's how I know. I don't expect, nor have I suggested anyone should join my "crusade". And, according to my last medical, my BP is on the low side of normal.

Or perhaps some moderation of the lies?

Actually I was asking you a question, which you failed to answer. Nice one, I suspect you won't answer it just to try and disprove my post or prove a point.
You have definitely missed the point.

So people posting lies maliciously on here affects you directly does it? I think you're just a wee bit sensitive in your middle age. I'm alright Jack? Why should I give two ****s what's posted about Jet2 or any other airline? That's like saying I should give a toss if lies were posted about Qantas, you have a very strange outlook, and expectation of others.

If you're that bothered take it up with the site owners, if you get no joy then vote with your feet and leave, I really don't know what else to suggest considering this forum is such a thorn in your side. If it ever becomes an issue for me I'll join you and back you up.

Oh but I didn't fail to answer, I didn't say it was ok, I said I couldn't give two hoots either way. I have no other point to prove other than that.

Is that a rhetorical question or is that LSM speaking? If these people who PM you are so bothered as you are then maybe they'd like to post here to back you up? Afterall the more support you get the more likely it is that you'll get somewhere.

I wish you well in your quest, in the meantime I have some relaxing sleep to attend to.

You should give two ****s about your fellow pilots who are decieved by a vindictive few. You, by your own admission, don't give a toss about them. But just because you don't doesn't mean others don't. And why should it have to affect one directly for one to be bothered by it? You are most definitely alright Jack aren't ya...shameful :yuk:

What do you think the intention of the first post was? I wasn't asking for suggestions from you. You decided to join in for what reason exactly?! Perhaps your only intention on this thread is to try and discredit me.

Still, if it's not an issue for you now, because you're not affected by it, why would it become an issue for you later?

It's up to the individual if they post. It doesn't prove anything either way whether they choose to post or not. I also didn't realise that there was a minimum level of subscription before a subject became valid. Maybe try to think for yourself in future.

The question about PMs was obviously rhetorical. LSM can speak for himself.

Oh, what you actually mean is I should give two ****s just because you do? Laugh Out Loud, I think not, I don't give two ****s because I am rational enough to filter the bull****, which I am sure the vast majority of people can do, it seems that you can't. Who's problem is that?
If you want to alert them you should PM them or email them. I've emailed the head honcho of this site more than once and found the chap to be very helpful.
You have serious personality issues dear man, to start with you know Chesty Morgan is Lord Spandex Masher and you know Lord Spandex Masher is Chesty Morgan, you can deny it all you like, but we all know it.
As for discrediting you? hmmm you aren't going to start crying are you? Just like your alter ego on here you've got to have the last say so you can have it, this is a public forum, if you don't like it that posters counter your argument then you should be as far away from here as you could possibly get.
Enjoy your day old chap.

No, what I actually mean is what I wrote. And once again, this is not about me or any particular airline. It's about the behaviour of a few posters who lie with impunity. That's all. Stop trying to turn it into something else. If I couldn't filter the bull**** do you think I'd be pointing it out?! Strange comment.

Says it all really. You are part of the problem, which is why you're being so vocal and defensive about it. You are the epitome of what is wrong with this industry.

You're funny though. Strawmanning isn't the definition of a good counter argument, something that you haven't done so far.

You think lying and deceiving your compatriots is ok just because this is the internet and it doesn't affect you directly. What a wonderfully selfish attitude you have.

Oh Spandex Chesty, you'll notice that I posted at post #12, from thereon in I have merely been answering YOU. So please get your facts right, I haven't been "so vocal & defensive" about it, but you do like to twist things around to further your own arguments and make yourself look clever, something LSM is good at as well, oh wait.......
Not a strange comment at all, we all have bull**** filters, it's called your eyes, and why would you let a few posters who lie with impunity ruin it for you? You of all people are good at picking a fight and an argument, so just tell them what they're doing wrong? You seem to do it with everyone else.

I'm part of the problem and everything that's wrong in this industry because I choose to ignore some little internet trolls who post lies? Are you serious? That's actually quite funny, so thousands of others who doesn't let it bother them are what's wrong with the industry too are they? My goodness you're a highly strung and self righteous individual aren't you. Tell you what, when you spot another blatant lie, send me a PM, I'll have a read and see if I agree with you that it's as bad as you say it is.

I'll leave you to your petty little issues, enjoy your crusade.

CC, you have a strange habit of always bringing it back to me. Do you fancy me or something? Repeating for the fourth time, this is not about me.

If it doesn't bother you, because it doesn't directly affect you, why are you even posting? You're being pretty vocal and defensive about something which doesn't affect you yet you chose to join this thread. Why?

Correct, you are part of the problem. Yet I didn't say everything that is wrong with the industry. You made that bit up. See the strawman there? Doesn't really work as a counter argument.

It's interesting to note that you believe lying to a fellow pilot is a petty issue. You should be ashamed.

By Jove you're slow. That's exactly what I did, yet the lies are allowed to stand. That is the whole premise of my initial post. You obviously missed it.

I've flown with you, so most definitely not. Sorry but no matter how vain you are you just don't do it for me.

Have a great day :ok:

That's ok. I prefer people with at least some moral fortitude.

Anyway, thanks for your lack of input on a matter that doesn't bother you. Bye now.

Get a room you two!