Vueling pilots forced voluntarily to Italy
 

I have heard through the grapevine that Vueling is now forcing its new pilots, who have temporary contracts to go to Italy. Is this true ?

Are new Captains in their line training being asked to volunteer to go to Rome or Italy or their line training is stopped?

Forced volontarily how does that work?

The cost of living in Italy near Rome Fiumicino is what 25%- 30% more than Spain, right?

Gracias

Vueling First officers usually go to eat at Mac Donalds anyway plus they share a basic flat with 3 or 4 other mates. Being at Barcelona, Madrid, Roma or wherever, who cares? the cost of living will always be high for them.
Back 15-20 years ago, I would say that 95% of them would NOT pass the first stage of Iberia's pilot selection, due to lack of skills, experience and knowledge, nowadays if you pay for an A320 type rating and accept a ridiculous 6 months contract with an unstable roster, 12 hours of duty per days, a bad base and a salary equal to what what earns an Iberia air hostess, you CAN indeed be a pilot! :hmm:

At least the CEO can buy his wife a nice car and eat everyday in great restaurants.:E

A flight attendant in Iberia is making much much more than a FO in Vueling.

cannot see how anyone can be FORCED to Volunteer.

Know a guy who just got hired....Rome base. But, that is the way it is for newhires. We have a job opening in Rome, are you interested?

Vueling Union representative fired ?
 

From my buddy, does anyone know if this is true that Vueling fired a union representantive? and suspended another ??

I heard 2 fired (but may be as you say 1 is suspended ) SEPLA ( obviously ) fighting the case. :mad: :=

wind check, I'd bet my house you are an Iberia pilot, you just sound like the typical arrogant type of person you always hear coming out of that company. Making it sound like 15-20 years ago, all the newbie pilots had better skills, experience and knowledge, how did this happen because you didn't pay for your training? So the level of training received now is worse then it was then because cadets chose to pay for it?

After that horrible Germanwings crash recently, all you heard from Spanish pilots was them attempting to bash 'low cost' companies, implying they are less safe. I swear you all forget that you once had zero experience.

Keep thinking that you and your Spanish 5 knot taxing colleagues are highly skilled. Likewise, keep thinking that it was your skill that got you that job and not that fact your relatives worked there before you did which is actually why you are there. Bottom line is, it's only you that think that, the rest of us who watch you operate, know it's all bull.

VJW,

I am ready to bet you just lost your house... Have this feeling..

The old Union leader pretended to go and negotiate the new contract on his own.. Without Union lawyers. And after the meeting he was used to go and have dinner in the COO house. Useless to add that this is how things work in Vueling.

My point still stands. Even if he isn't an Iberia pilot he sounds like them all as I described above.

VJW please open your eyes (and don't do like vueling FOs & new capt who widely open something else...). Skills is not a matter of experience. Yes you can buy a type rating but you will never be able to buy skills. Besides the ridiculous T & Cs offered by vueling, you should investigate how laughable is their pilot selection and I guaranty that you will be amazed. Also have a look at who they are looking for: no experience, no university background, just a CPL licence and some vaseline will do it.
Iberia, when its network was not yet eaten by ryanair and vueling, had a top selective process to recruit the best pilots, even some with low flying experience, it was hard but fare because then the T & Cs offered were respectfull. Can't you just hear the difference of professionalism when you listen to an Iberia pilot on the freq versus a vueling guy? Oh yes when you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Most of ex military pilots went to Iberia before, none of them now dare to apply to vueling, they rather prefer doing another job.

The way I heard it , getting into Iberia before was as stated above "who you know, not WHAT you know"

If we are going to discuss English on the RT, well, Vueling at least speak English when a non-Spanish aircraft is on freq, and do so acceptably well . . . .the old "jurassic" Iberia pilots of 20 odd years ago may have a red face if they tried to claim the same if I remember well.

But, this isn't really an Iberia vs Vueing thread is it ? like every ex state owned flag carrier, Iberia pilots (via Vueling & Ib Express & not strict enough labour law + state "intervention" . . . in the wrong way ) are being shafted.

As to the Vueling Reps negotiating new terms over Dinner with the COO ? ? that will be why two of them are dismissed ? they forgot to bring a Bottle of wine with them to Dinner you think :rolleyes:

Oh.. Wow. That really made me laugh. Thanks.

Sorry, I know you shouldn't feed the trolls.

You've no idea what you're talking about. Judging skills and knowledge based on the recruitment process of an airline is simply laughable. The answer is no I can't tell the difference between a Vueling pilot or an Iberia one. Partly because you're both speaking Spanish or level 2 ICAO English.

I've shared apartments in Madrid with Iberia FO's who've 10000 hours making less then 50% salary then what I make and I've 6000 hours, so you tell me who's using more vaseline?

Honestly, I've never experienced any "Flag Carrier" type crew like Iberia anywhere else in the world, where they really think they're the best out there, and go out of their way to try and look down on everyone else, with absolutely nothing to be proud about.

Captainplaystation you sure must be confusing with Air Nostrum or any other spanish outfit, but this was definitely not the case with Iberia and Air Europa. I know that your friends working like slaves in the loco industry always tell people that they are not (and will never) join airlines like Air France, British Airways, Lufthansa or Iberia because they did not know someone inside.
VJW, I don't know what you are talking about because a pilot with 100000 hours in Iberia will earn in 2 weeks what a vueling pilot will in 3 months.
Oh maybe you are talking about IbExpress which is as bad as Vueling. The only plus is they will not be forced to go to Roma because there is no base there.:p

Todays pprune forums are full of loco losers trying to defend the impossible. That's what we call the stockholm syndrome.

windcheck, I doubt you've passed such a gruelling assessment in a flag carrier with your level 2 english,

I don't work for a Spanish Loco, don't know why you assumed I did. You love bashing Loco, so I decided to inform you that as a Loco Capt based in Madrid, with 6000 hrs I make 60% more then an Iberia FO who's been flying twice as long as me!

Didn't Air Europa run off the end of the runway in ACE? Wow highly skilled and vastly experienced were those guys..

As I said, this id1ot has Iberia slapped all over him, and would never get another job in any other airline that actually required some SOP, CRM and some skill where you don't require a relative to get you in.

This forum is often defending colleagues in different airlines, what we don't like is losers like you in your Spanish carriers talking about things you've simply no idea about. The more you reply, the more you convince us just how bad your english is, even with the help of google translate....

Talking of Iberia,..any Iberia guys out there willing to PM me about the Inadvertant CB incursion,and subsequent double plummet,that freaked out 100 plus pax,when the Madrid to Malpensa A320 service diverted to Linate,a few weeks ago?....
Certainly well followed up by the IB PR team,who have sent copious emails to follow up pax reaction,and seems to have worked,as no press coverage.

Captplaystation,

The guys who are being threaten to be fired are the NEW union leaders.. Because they are a pain in the ass of Vueling management..

To All,

Come on guys, is it really necessary to start flaming on what pilot nationality is better prepared or skilled? I guess Vueling pilots are the same as all other companies.. They have worse conditions.

Oh I am so sorry for my english level, I don't do any effort to improve, I find this language very ugly, especially the british accent is just horrible compared to US/Canadian accent.
Anyway VJW, if you are a loco guy based at madrid you must probably be in a rubbish company such as Ryanair or Norwegian. Shame on you really. How can you dare to compare your job with an Iberia pilot? Do you have social benefits for all family? Any ID90? Any crewfood? Don't you have to write many reports to explain your base manager why you take a bit more than minimum fuel? And what about sickness and salary? What's your basic salary when you dont go to work if on holidays or sickness? How many sectors a day do you fly and how many hours a month/year? How much did you pay for your miserable uniform? What about your medical checks and OPC that every ryanairboys have to selffound. Tell us about your forced holidays from september to March.

Oh dear, any Iberia pilot would love to be a ryanair captain based at madrid...NOT :)

Wind check,

correct me if I am wrong. You must have worked in Spain, maybe Vueling maybe not, then tired of being treated like a "loco cpt" you moved away.. A big airline, most probably in the Middle East...

Now you can finally look from "above" all the others, like you felt being watched while you were in the Spanish carrier... come on stop acting like a little child!

VJW,

Compare your "loco cpt" salary with same rank locos.. doen't make sense compare it with first officers. Actually it doesn't make any sense to compare salaries unless you then wanna start a "who-have-it-bigger-competition" possibly staying on cm......:E

I was comparing length of time in an airline and salaries made thus far - end of. This is suppose to be about Vueling and there is always some idiot Iberia guy that comes on talking crap. Iberia have it so good, when there are FO's in the company that have worked there for +15 years making 4k net, with reducing T's & C's and less and less job security....and he wants to talk about vaseline and crew food?

Windcheck,

I get the impression that you are just trying to piss off some people here. Your response is childish and disrespectful towards your colleagues. I actually have my doubts if you fly for a living. If you really do I would be sincerely worried because your attitude does not belong in a flight deck.

someone more clever than me said: "once the doors are closed it's exactely the same job".
Up there we all try to performe at the highest level possible (at least this is what I like to think) whether you're a BA IB AF LH FR VY or whatever pilot. Most of the loco guys have quite interesting backgrounds so I would actually be careful in stating that their level of professionalism is lower compared to collegues from other airlines.. Then of course we can find the typical id1ot everywhere including Iberia...
If we're talking about crew meals, hours flown, ID90 etc well then it's not a matter of skills anymore but just a way to piss people off pretending to have a bigger :mad: which in my opinion is quite immature from someone who operates in such a dynamic and challenging enviroment.. If he actually does.........

ECA, IFALPA
 

Apparently, the President of SEPLA has written a letter to all the union members of SEPLA,regarding the sanctioning of union members as a way of distracting what is going in Italy. Is this correct?

That the support is unanimous within SEPLA and that there is support from ECA and IFALPA, in this issue.

Why would Vueling management do such a thing ?

Intimidation/trying to prove a point/testing the limits of the law/ sending a clear message to the others/testing the resolve of the others . . . all of the above.

Children, please stop this "Mine's better then yours", no one will ever win nor agree...

Provocation
 

The chief of the union has been sanctioned for merely doing his job a union leader. It appears to be fear mongering,etc

Looks like poor and inept management as the Vueling pilots are a hard working collective and poorly paid, who do not deserve such abuse of their union leaders.

Totally agreed, not too many jobs in aviation in Spain (well, not too many jobs in general ) & , if you give them a fingertip they bite off your arm . . . . SEPLA have the resolve to fight this, hope the Spanish courts remain impartial enough to apply the wholly adequate Spanish law to full effect (not that I would ever contemplate implying that anything else may be found to be "normal" for any (€) reason . . . .learned that lesson already :hmm: )

does anyone know if Vueling take on non spanish native speakers ? but very basic Spanish speakers ?

Vueling pilots forced voluntarily to Italy
 

Forced voluntarily is that not a contradiction ? ?
I would have thought there would be Italian pilots interested for these positions or is it a closed shop?

Sure there were some Italians but with experience, so too expensive for a Cutre Airlines. So at the end they preferred a young Spanish guys and girls that are afraid to leave home.

gtseraf,

It's called being volun-told. Commonplace in military circles..

On the bright side, I can think of worse places to be voluntarily forced to...

Neither me my family my friends their families the friends of my friends and their families and so on will ever put a feet on any LOCO ******* airline airplane at the control of which there are spineless individuals who paid their way through the system, never flew one hour alone on a plane and don't even have the balls to stand for their rights and get get what they deserve in return: peanuts . Just go flipping burger at McDonalds for what I'm concerned, you are a disgrace to aviation.

Thats a great idea, but, employment in Spain ? not too good. Pilot employment in Spain ? not too good either.

Well, the Case is being fought, on behalf of the 2 Union Reps sacked (with a 3rd having some other form of sanction) lets hope the "Troops" rally behind them, and, more importantly/riskier that the Courts see fit to uphold the provisions already in place in Spanish law to protect against this medieval behaviour on the part of Vueling management.

IAG shareholders
 

According to my colleague, and for IAG shareholders, Is it in their best interest to provoke SEPLA ? Forcing pilots to Rome, where the cost of living is higher ?

Why didn't the management hire more Italian pilots, instead of forcing Spanish nationals to Italy ? Intentionally or incompetence, costing the company more problems and money, not LOCO? Some of the pilotos came back to Europe after flying in Asia to be at home in Spain, now their conditions have been worsened due to the higher living costs for them in Rome.

It would have been a better for solution for this management to pay them as forced, and comply with the Collective Bargaining Agreement. No ? This is what my colleague, understands, is he right you think ? Is there a global strategy to degrade the conditions of pilots who are out there taking the responsibility day by day of a time pressure quick turnaround operation, is what my buddy is griping at. You see or do you think its alright that just sit back and watch the degradation of a profession. Didn´t they learn anything from the Hudson River A-320 incident ? Sit back relax, do nothing, and watch TV, you will see.

Any news on this medieval airline? Is it true that there is a kind of vueling Italy and they do not have a written contract not following the Spanish one?
I was told what I was thinking to be a joke that vueling crews in Italy (by a vueling pilot) are mostly on contract and can't say no to anything... Even if they call you five hours after the standby is over....

What about the union leaders who got fired? No strike yet? Really?

Vueling decided to rehire the pilots previously fired for having copied the questionsire for command upgrade.
For the rest, it is still a mcdonald airline, pilots show full respect to their chief and directors, like a north korean does with Kim Jong Un.

Worker rights in spain are non-existent, specially those of pilots.

They can't strike because laws have been enacted that make all forms of strike illegal one way or the other, and union leaders are personally liable, so they can loose everything if they try to stand against the slavers.

Workers are totally defenseless against any aggression from the greedy managers. There is no escape. RYR and EZY are legacy airlines compared to Vueling and IBeria Express, when it comes to T&Cs. FOs in these companies make less that the cashiers in Carrefour. A pilot could work one month in the sandpit and spend three unpaid leave months in his spanish home and make the same money.

Bear in mind that in Europe Ryanair has been operating with fake contract pilots for over 15 years and nothing happens, except in France. Even with the precedent of France the rest of Europe is looking to the other side and allows the law to be cheated by the companies.

Europe nowadays is far far worse than the US on the subject of lobbyists and such. The experts made their research as requested by EASA and said more rest and less duty is the way to go in the new FLT regulations? No way! less rest and more duty, airlines say. Fvck the experts! This is the Europe we leave in. You can be shafted by all, but be protected by none. Air France-KLM WTF??? BA-IB? WTF????? The name of the game is irreversible operations, to suck the blood from everybody. How do you undo that, if it doesn't work anymore? I mean when it doesn't work anymore. Oh I wish Greece had the virtue of destroying the Euro, that huge irreversible mistake, and many of the impossible institutions of the EU.

It is not that we should go communists or anything, as it appears they will go in Spain soon, but some kind of resistance has to be opposed, and all of Europe is to blame for not doing so.