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bluepilot 21st May 2015 19:48

Mr Gammon Flaps, a very honest and what I believe to be realistic view of working for a Flag Carrier airline. I was fortunate a few years ago to be be employed by another flag carrier, the pay was fantastic but the lifestyle sucked big time. I took a big risk and joined a UK based leisure airline, ok I was lucky to get a direct entry command so the financial hit was not quite as painful as it could have been, however my quality of life shot up. I am now home very night do not work anywhere near as hard as I used to.

Its horses for courses, if you are young enough to enjoy a full career with an EU flag carrier then the job security and income are probably second to none, for someone that is joining later in life it can really have its drawbacks, particularly when it comes to family life / being away from home.

Busbo 21st May 2015 20:08


Lots of 'My job pays loads and i do :mad: all.' Or 'I chose not to join BA for this reason...'

I think those people are lost.

Year 1 about 4000/month net.
Nope, not lost. Not sure why people are so touchy about it either.

The initial question was answered, quite comprehensively, in post #6.

The thread then moved on to what may (or may not) be something useful for someone who is clearly thinking about where their career is going.

Not sure where the problem is. Although excellent and unbeatable in many ways I'm sure, BA is probably the easiest airline to join for the wrong reasons (IMHO).

Emma Royds 22nd May 2015 06:36

The term career has little meaning in the industry nowadays. Yes BA will be still flying the flag in decades to come but at what cost to the employee? Unions are now simply organisations which only seem to have the ability to delay detrimental change rather then prevent it. Look no further than Iberia which stands out and also with the Lufthansa group as a whole.

The once bastions of sought after terms and conditions further afield have also morphed into offering packages that have been considerably diluted over time. Cathay, Gulf Air and Emirates are all excellent examples. What alarms me most, is if we have seen this change take place in the the last ten years or so, then what on earth will we face in the next ten or twenty years. Will we all be turning into flying mercenaries where by we have no loyalty to our employer as none is shown to the employee? The bottom line will result in us simply fulfilling our own personal financial and lifestyle goals, with us being ruthless in how we achieve it.

BA is a great company but like any other large airline in the world, it is no more immune than any other to the potentially brutal tactics that may (dare I say will?) be used by management to squeeze as much out of their money making machine.

Preon 22nd May 2015 14:18

Constant change
 
Yes 'Emma' I totally agree with your sentiments regarding constant change and consolidation and I have a sneaky feeling you could soon be adding Aer Lingus to your list?
I guess it's just a job so enjoy the present and 'smell the flowers along the way'.

overstress 22nd May 2015 15:43


Funny that you never get a wave back from a BA aircraft as it passes, and seldom a hello as they walk past. It's a shame.
Waved back at a United 737-7 only the other day, and said hello to some Lufthansa pilots in the immigration queue. I presume you weren't any of those then? :hmm:

KingDingaling 25th May 2015 08:39

Part-time options
 
Morning folks,

Just curious to know alongside the pay discussion whether or not BA have part-time options; if so what are they and how long in service until they may be taken up? Is there a waiting list? Also the opportunity to move to LGW from LHR - an easy move or again a long wait list?

Many thanks :ok:

toro 25th May 2015 21:28

I had to log on for the first time in years just to reply to this thread......;)

I have been in this industry for over 35 years and in BA for 20 so have a very well informed view of how things are..... Albeit it's my opinion.

Gammons post is pretty accurate although I would dispute the figure of 85% being "good guys" I think it's higher at 95% but having worked for 4 other operators around the world in my opinion there are far more "weirdos" in other company's... That's just in my experience.
There is no more whinging and whining than any other company however we are aware that it's never going to be as good as it has been so naturally there is an element of disastifaction.

When I was "outside" of BA my natural inclination was to perceive the BA pilots as prima donnas and which very much coloured my attitude towards them. The vast majority of BA pilots would wave, say hello and banter with ANY other pilots but I have to say the unspoken vitriol that I experience really is astounding..... I've asked recent new joiners and they agree with this sentiment.

It's absolutely true that the cabin crew/pilot relationship can be difficult but is getting better and in the last couple of years has improved markedly as the older crew have departed.... You have to realise that the vast majority of cabin crew are great but unlike charter or LOCO they tend to be older and quite frankly and understandably want to go down route have a quiet vino/meal and chill as they aren't in their 20's anymore and have partied gone crazy too many times ....

BA is still a great company to work for and even though I will retire in 5-6 years I am still proud to work for them...

This is all my own opinion but don't get dragged down by trolls and haters....

Right Engine 26th May 2015 08:44

In BA, every time you fly with someone who you like, make a note of their name (code). So when you have a choice of trips, you can check if they're on your list. The problem, particularly on Long Haul is that everyone chooses destination, hence the loneliness Gammon Flaps talked of. The bidding programs will even highlight trips that have one of your 'preferred colleagues' on.

The lack of familiarity is a real problem but over the years, can be tackled.

This of course can be applied in the reverse sense to avoid the 10% of self entitled knob jockeys.

Mooney12 26th May 2015 13:50

It should be noted that the flying pay is now included in the basic and appears on the left of the payslip.

So new joiner basic is 62445 for mortgage purposes etc...

Time Away From Base Allowance.. 3.39 an hour, is 80% tax free. I.e. If you get 1000 of TAFB in a month, 800 is tax free, 200 will be taxed at your marginal rate, 40%. So you'll lose 80 out of that 1000 in tax. This is extremely good and up's your net pay a great deal, especially on long haul.

We also get 5 tax free per night stop within the UK and 10 outside the UK.

We have a world class system called emaestro we can use for swapping, picking up overtime etc... We can do all this without contacting BA in any way. It's fantastic.

Your total package as a new joiner will end up over 70k, with some overtime, even more. It really isn't bad. Look at the world we are living in... Walking into 70k jobs doesn't happen easily. Also, with TAFB being 80% tax free... In net terms, the slary would work out more like 80k.

BA is still great to work for. Yes we work hard, but for 80k, in the real world, you'd be working much harder.

Furthermore... Incremental guaranteed pay rises are almost unheard of these days. If you go into training, your pay will increase by nearly 18%. Training standards, much more. So we do have pilots earning more than 200k. Fancy not paying any tax? Fine... Go on long haul and move out of the UK... hundreds of pilots in BA do this and pay little or nothing in tax. This makes them seriously wealthy. 20k per month net etc...

No other UK airline has opportunities like this...

wiggy 26th May 2015 14:11


We have a world class system called emaestro we can use for swapping, picking up overtime etc... We can do all this without contacting BA in any way. It's fantastic.
Tried doing a PBW involving a weekend recently?.....:E:E

Mikehotel152 26th May 2015 14:17


Go on long haul and move out of the UK... hundreds of pilots in BA do this and pay little or nothing in tax. This makes them seriously wealthy. 20k per month net etc
Many of us like the UK and feel a civic duty to pay fair levels of tax!

Mooney12 26th May 2015 14:18

Well, the more people apply, the more BA recruit... The sooner we get our establishment right... The sooner you can get those weekends off wiggy :8

Mooney12 26th May 2015 14:20

MikeHotel152... Myself included. I pay loads of tax. Don't think I'm defending tax dodgers.. I'm not. If you want to move away and not pay tax, you can... That's all I'm saying. I'm not debating the moral argument!!

Most of the guys who do this, do pay tax in their new countries. But it tends to be a lot less. Isle of Man, Jersey.. Italy, Spain etc.... Or Republic of Ireland.. Nothing! That's a joke.

wiggy 26th May 2015 14:38


Well, the more people apply, the more BA recruit... The sooner we get our establishment right
That's been a long story hasn't it? It would be nice to get it "sorted" at long last, though I rather suspect our idea of the correct manning levels and the company's are somewhat different... :oh:

Widebdy 27th May 2015 08:53

Do I see a pilot working for Ryanair lecturing BA pilots about tax ? :sad: strange given the % of money I lose to the tax man is now almost double what it was when I worked as an "agency pilot" at Ryanair. I was on a new contract , not one based in a country of my choice where paying even less tax is an option.

Back on topic; how often are the scales reviewed? Given the increased productivity and apparent difficulties in getting DEP at the moment is their scope for an improvement. That could potentially make the package interesting to some of the easyjet guys not interested.

GS-Alpha 27th May 2015 09:17

I can't see a change to the pay scales happening. BA may be prepared to throw some money at the situation, but I suspect they'd want it to be a temporary cost for what they perceive as a temporary problem. I think they'd far rather see that in the form of an increased overtime bill. They've already implemented a mechanism to force overtime upon a pilot at final roster production and where that turns out to be insufficient, they are currently paying some huge sums of money for voluntary overtime. They've still got the option to bring back forced draft as an alleviation too (although I suspect it would have to be at a more palatable rate of pay).

wiggy 27th May 2015 11:58


They've still got the option to bring back forced draft as an alleviation too
You're correct in theory but I think in the current climate/with the current mood, especially in short haul, such an alleviation would spell the end of BALPA in BA.

bluepilot 27th May 2015 12:24

quote : You're correct in theory but I think in the current climate/with the current mood, especially in short haul, such an alleviation would spell the end of BALPA in BA.

Is that such a bad thing?

Wirbelsturm 27th May 2015 12:31


Is that such a bad thing?
It's that eternal question isn't it? Whilst many of the things BALPA have 'achieved' have polarized the membership you still have to ask what would the scenario be if they hadn't been representing their members over the past years where many airlines have gone to the wall.

Tricky isn't it.

GS-Alpha 27th May 2015 12:36

Wiggy, I'd say you are correct in theory too, but what exactly would BALPA do to prevent such an alleviation?


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