WORD John_Smith,

Actually a shame we're even discussing 65+ we shouldn't have been discussing 60+ either...... One of the reasons our t/r's are going to hell in a handbasket!
Go fishing, play with your grand kids or fly a glider and be a real pilot. Stop pissing in your own nest!!

John Smith,

Before you lose all credibility on this forum you will have to share with us the name of your employer.

€150k per year after tax & in excess of 20% company defined pension contributions....

Maybe if you started flying in the 60s for a legacy (and have in fact retired before DC pensions were reduced at almost every airline), but that deal is long gone from modern aviation.

I await to be proven wrong, and then will send them my CV!

For those questioning John Smith maybe you aren't as well informed as you think you are. I was a CTC cadet of the same era as him and we were indeed offered unsecured loans. As for his employer, well that's, ahem, "ezy" to guess in my opinion.....

And broadly speaking I agree with his sentiments. If people want to keep flying beyond 65 and can hold down a medical and maintain licence proficiency then good luck to them, each to their own. However I can't think of anything worse after a 40 year plus airline career of continuing into my 70s with the work life balance going the way it is.

The big beef with the 65ers who wish to continue in the established airlines (BA being a prime example) is they will continue to sit at the top of a seniority list cherry picking as they please while everyone else underneath has to sit and stagnate while the goal posts keep changing in the senior chaps favour. In smaller airlines/non-airline flying I can imagine the motivation is an enjoyment of a niche side of professional flying an airline jockey might never see.

But in general I'm with John Smith. Airline flying is becoming increasingly dull, regimented and automated. If will only become more so. If you find yourself admiring the way AP1 flys that that cracking RNAV or get a kick out of working out dispatch landing distances 4 times a day because the regulatory body says we have to then good for you, but I really do think those who carry on are ruining a well deserved retirement. All a matter of opinion of course...

Anyway, an incendiary topic this most certainly is, so I stand by for incoming.

I'm sure everyone can see, BMRR, the difference between your post and john__smith's. You make the same point seem so much more balanced, reasonable and worth consideration. I don't think you need worry about "incoming". Some debate, perhaps...

It really is not what JS says. Some of it is quite right and yes unsecured loans were easily available 8-10 years ago. NatWest matched HSBC offer if you asked.

No, it is the way he says it. The arrogance and rudeness is incredible. Opinion is fine and is personal but every thread he contributes to ends the same way - in a tirade of bitter and angry comments.

You were lucky. You could have come out of Oxford and taken a path to XL. Maybe after 5 years you could have found yourself redundant for the 3rd time and then spent years in a sandpit. You do say luck is involved. Never a truer word spoke. So bloody well lay off those whose coin landed on the other side.

JS - you have made your position so clear so many times. Time now for you to toddle off to your better place with your superior brain and leave us half brains alone. We are sick now of being lectured by you. You might just find that your attitude will cause you problems further down the line.

Reading this thread makes me realise that after nearly forty years being paid to fly aeroplanes it is almost time to call it a day. No sugar daddy, no loans, no second wife or third for that matter, no boat, no light aircraft but thankfully no mortgage and no ulcer. Do I want to have my life dicated to my rostering and crewing much longer - no, do I need a fortune to retire - no, will I need to work at B&Q - no, is it time to let a younger pilot get his or her promotion - yes, is life too short - yes, have I been too to many funerals of younger pilots than myself - yes.

Look at the stats guys.......

Bit More - you make the point of that side of the argument so much better, without the bragging or insults. I would, as I have said on this or a related thread, give up working tomorrow if I could afford it. I agree about the downward trend of working conditions and am trying to improve my lot. Once my kids are self-reliant, then my options will open up considerably, but between now and then, I have to consider the worst option of needing to continue in a reasonable highly paid job, of which only one am I qualified for. I do expect to be able to do it part time, on a job share with someone else in a similar position - no way would I work full time for a loco at that age. If things work out right, I'll be able to go part time at 55 and have a semi retirement at that point and cruise on a bit later; I think taking the foot of the accelerator earlier and delaying full retirement too will be a better combination than a sprint to a finish at 65 - look at how many retirees turn their toes up within the first couple of years of slowing down! I'd like to get a more relaxed life while I'm young enough to enjoy it and still have something to do and a useful income beyond 65...

That's an easy question. Many pilots retain their love and enthusiasm for piloting an aeroplane until the day they die of old age. The greatest thrill of my life was as a 21 year old with 220 hours flinging a Mustang around the sky between towering Cu doing a tail chase on another Mustang. How can that experience not live with you? I still long for those days. I flew an ultra light a few weeks ago and still got a thrill at doing a neat crosswind landing.

In Europe I was pushed out of airline flying 23 years ago because of the age 60 rule but still look up in envy an watch the Boeings and Airbus coming down the ILS at the airport near my house. Other pilot retirees I know are perfectly happy to spend their lives pulling garden weeds and complaining of rickety knees. Horses for courses.

Whilst I agree with Centaurus about the pleasure of flying, I am not sure that regulatory authorities should take that into account when drawing up legislation to determine what age a commercial pilot should retire. Like it or not, as we age we slow down and unless we, as a group, accept more stringent medicals throughout our careers which would doubtless cause more of us to retire than it does now, I doubt any legislator would be likely to support such an extension to the retirement age. Regulators tend to view things through the lens of the tabloid blame game, which is why we have some rather silly rules on jump seats etc.

Land flap.. what the fook are you talking about? Are you serious? You are top class? Ah ah ah..make me laugh !! Enthusiast idiots like you, that mostly got their license at tax payer expenses are the real ruin of this job. How does a doctor gets his degree? By paying its college...don't he ? The day civil aviation will get completely rid of that negative influence, only that day it will become a real profession.

Hi john_smith, you question how people can miss manage their finances. Well it's easy really, spend much of your career on small airlines that don't pay much and fail, then get divorced because of the anti social hours, blow a fortune bringing up kids and then have your pension fund fail as BMI and Monarch pilots did and it's really easy !

Furb, you are talking out of your backside. I can't speak for the rest of the EU, but in the UK you can't even get a tax break on the training costs, let alone get state subsidy. Doctors, lawyers, IT, business, financial experts and all the other high income professions get trained at universities which have state funding, so their course costs are much, much less than ours, and usually paid for by student loans that have special low interest rates and are underwritten by the tax payer, and only to be paid back if earnings exceed a threshold with the unpaid balance written off at tax payers' loss after 30 years.

Please don't interpret this as an attack on those professions - doctors especially, who have to work horrific hours for the first several years of their career. I'm merely pointing out Furb's assertion of pilots being state funded as being utter lies.

Only 2 out of the 5 Airlines I have worked for had Company Pension schemes.
Both of which have been decimated. So some of us have no choice but to work until we can actually afford to retire. And when that day comes I shall enjoy as much of it as I can.

To try and return the thread to the opening post.

In the EU there is now no compulsory retirement age. However in this profession only we have a regulation in place that makes it impossible to earn a living from that profession beyond 65. This is surely not correct and open to challenged in the courts at some point. Additionally in the UK at least it's now government policy to keep older workers in the workplace and to that end its now not possible for me to claim my state pension until 67. Something is clearly wrong here. Everyone (else) has the right to work if they wish but not us.

Furb; "By paying its college......don't he " ! Er yes, excellent articulation ! Troll alert, Troll alert ! But I must counter. Yes, I was sponsored, although I did repay 1/3rd of training costs through reduced salary over five years. The other 2/3rd was by the sponsoring airline and the Uk CAA (Ministry of Aviation as it was then called ). Selection was a five day affair.' Pay to flyers' are convinced by the providers that the former are worthy of a place at the school because they need to put bums on otherwise empty seats. The' pay to flyers' are so easily taken in that they then, according to Smithy, (ooooh no, did I patronise my mate by calling him Smithy ?...............Ooooh no, just called him "Mate " ! Oh dear !); yes, according to Smithy, get unsecured loans. Good grief. Look, Furb, Air Transport flying is a top class profession and it has been dumbed down by the pay to flyers. I never suggested that I was top class (even though I clearly am) but that the profession itself is indeed top class and should admit only those who pass extremely rigorous selection criteria rather than the size of their wallets. Those who wish to extend beyond age 60-65-67 to unrestricted (age) let them slide the cream on top of the cake and continue, for most of them, to enjoy a profession they clearly love. Oh and finally, a school chum was SELECTED for Guys Hospital 5 year Doctor Training and it cost him nothing, back in the early 70's. Get back to sponsored professional training for ANY profession and we will educate back up to impeccable standards.

Probably mentioned before, however, the thread crept so much from the origin! .anyway, considering the majority of us are flying with EASA licences, one would assume all the member states would have to agree to exercising the privileges after the age of 65.. now, given it takes years to agree a single subject, perhaps it would be delusional to assume any changes can be implemented within the next 10 years. For me 60 is more than enough, rather than earn more money I would choose to save money by working in Tesco!

Medical and Technical
 

the unic limitation that a pilot should have to be allowed to fly is:Subject do Medical and Technical :ok::D

Reading this thread makes me realise that after nearly forty years being paid to fly aeroplanes it is almost time to call it a day. No sugar daddy, no loans, no second wife or third for that matter, no boat, no light aircraft but thankfully no mortgage and no ulcer. Do I want to have my life dicated to my rostering and crewing much longer - no, do I need a fortune to retire - no, will I need to work at B&Q - no, is it time to let a younger pilot get his or her promotion - yes, is life too short - yes, have I been too to many funerals of younger pilots than myself - yes.

Look at the stats guys.......




I'm with you Beamer. 40 years was enough for me . I got out (voluntarily) at 61. Quality of life over standard of living every time. I built a house, did a year as Captain of my golf club and to be honest standard of living has not dropped appreciably either. I cannot for the life of me imagine 40 years of Ryanair or Easyjet. I was lucky that the Queen paid for my training and I spent 20 years having essentially fun before going into the airlines. Can't do that anymore methinks.

Cider

I suspect we may have similar backgrounds !

Enjoy the golf.............:ok: