LNIDA,

I have spoken personally with quite a few guys who were told that they would have a "Core" (not permanent employment with a Norwegian subsidiary, but "Core" ) contract after 2 years.

A cursory read of the threads on here this last couple of years should have alerted them to the unlikelihood of this occurring, but , nonetheless, I have been assured that is what they were told at interview.

I don't know if I can lay all of the blame for this on the narcisstic appointee now handling recruitment, or whether it was during BH's swansong, I would suspect the former. I know similarly of many who were assured that their Command would be "just around the corner" if they joined. Again a bit of research & due diligence should have raised their eyebrows, particularly if they looked at the number of qualified / capable Core FO's who have yet to commence a Command Course.

So, they may, as you suggest, be guilty of believing what they wanted to believe, but, the transmitter of this info may also be guilty of (what Maggie Thatcher called it ) being "economical with the truth".

Anyway, they have all seen the real "Norwegian Way" now :{

Happy New Year, and here's hoping we can take a couple of steps back to what it was we thought we were joining :hmm:

According to the Oxford dictionary a lie is the following:
(a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.)

When Bjørn stated during the LGW base meeting, and I paraphrase" nobody needs to worry about their job, all of your jobs are safe"
That is in my opinion a falsehood. Considering notices of contractual termination were sent out to 60 pilots two weeks later.
Yes; it is but my opinion, however I think they fit the above definition.

lear999wa
 

Yep I concede 99.9999% of people hearing BK's comment would indeed take that view, I was flying so didn't hear it myself, but i don't believe there were any qualifications added, of course all are needed (but not during the winter) no matter, no one had any idea in joining NAS that they were in any risk of a winter layoff, so yes completely unacceptable.

The upgrade one puzzles me more, not withstanding my earlier comments i don't know of anyone who has changed seats in less than 12-16 months, so i can't understand why anyone would suggest that it was 6 months???

OSM seem to running round like headless chickens and i suspect the next few months will be er interesting, thankfully the company seems to be on a catch up year and it needs it more than it knows

787 Pilots not happy either, Given the continuing debate and associated costs, the year of consolidation may well turn out to be a lot tougher than expected:

Open Skies | Transportation Trades Department

It looks unlikely this issue will be solved within the next 6 months and this must be placing a huge strain on the finances..maybe they should be more transparent about the " big picture"

@Callsign Kilo. I have seen similar comments on this forum suggesting a frosty reception for RYR DEC who "jump the queue" and get a UK base or similar. Explain these suggestions? Because I never witnessed any Ryanair Pilot take a stand against any colleague, not even the ones the backstabbing ones they debatably should have taken a stand against!

Seniority and loyalty counts for nothing at Ryanair. There are no transparent systems in Ryanair. Ex-Ryanair pilots returning are not screwing anyone. Supply and demand rule the roost not labour agreements or seniority. Your suggestion that certain groups of pilots in Ryanair would be treated negatively, "like lepers", by fellow colleagues is absolutely laughable.

If you have a problem with the systems and contracts in ryanair and how they are allocated grow a pair of balls and challenge Ryanair managers, not your fellow colleagues.

I suggest winding your neck in because in my experience, it is far more likely that the reinstated Ex-Norwegian Pilots will have to deal with Ryanair Pilots hassling them for information about life beyond Ryanair. I know that is what many of us ex-FR pilots spent our time doing whenever we had the opportunity to fly with Pilots who had previously flown for the likes of Emirates.

Good luck to any Pilot returning from NAS to FR, I hope the transfer pays off. It is worth pointing out that some of those looking to return have personal reasons beyond command upgrade e.g commuting has not worked out as expected. The vast majority are happy to remain at Norwegian and try to engage with the company.

When you are 24 you should not be allowed to put in charge of the lives of hundreds of passengers..period. Minimum age for upgrade 40 and 15 years experience in commercial aviation.

That must have been the funniest post ive read in years,thanks!!:D

you are italian for sure...(im)!!

Recent information regarding basing policies in Norwegian.

pilots that are low on seniority may experience a temporary base transfer twice a year to cover the need at other bases during the high season. Most of these transfers are done on a voluntary basis, with individuals being based on results of the previous base bidding (December 2014). Unfortunately, there are also some forced base transfers amongst the pilots with the lowest seniority for us to safeguard the production increase for the upcoming summer season.
100-150 of the pilots with the lowest seniority will at all times be exposed to involuntary base changes to accommodate the seasonal production changes.

To which you can add


The winter season 2015 will open up for the possibility of extended Leave of Absence (working outside the Norwegian group), reduced working patterns (50-80%) or leave for most bases at the EURO/SCAN area. If you already have a wish for a break in the autumn of 2015, please send an Email as soon as possible.


For anyone who doesn't remember, a similar request last Summer did not yield enough "volunteers", which resulted in between 1 & 4 mths forced unpaid leave for the most recent entrants. There was no solution to this until the pilots got together & ameliorated it by volunteering to help out their colleagues by taking reduced roster. This resulted in most receiving shorter forced breaks, or at least 25% or 50% employment for part of it.

It appears NAS is becoming a seasonal employer, in regards to Base Stability / 100% employment, this suits some people, if it doesn't . . . beware, leaving FR will not mean you are leaving behind being dicked around for basings, nor having to take unpaid leave over the Winter (at least for the first couple of years you are here )

Why do people put up with that crap? Is flying a 737 really worth everything, including job security and a life outside work?

Unfortunately, once you end up with 73 rating (and walk away from FR), life is pretty much decided for you. Head East or put up with it.

It's swings and roundabouts really. If you get a UK or Irish base, permanent contract, left seat, 5/4, home every night, FR works for a lot of folk. My work/life balance was good for four years while I was there.

The question is can you slog it out doing 4 sector days and 900 hours year in year out.

Maybe for some, while others hope their experience from NAS will be valued by other companies. Which in turn are being more or less challenged by NAS, contributing to the 'gentle glide to the bottom,' as someone put it.

Many good guys and gals at NAS. This issue might have a few sides to it. I think many people are at the hands of systemic factors which can only be dealt with through responsible, informed and coordinated governance. Not holding my breath, though.

B737, hours on cruise, MCP, CDU and coffee? No? I recently flew with someone who actually makes a living flying gliders. Hello daydream! :}

The company, having made demands equivalent to tearing up the current labour agreement, and offering conditions in some respects worse than those "enjoyed" by hired (contract ) pilots, it is not surprising that negotiations with the Scandinavian based pilots are progressing in the cordial manner so beloved of NAS.


"As a result of the breakdown in the CLA negotiations for the Scandinavian pilots, a collective resignation was sent today, February 9, 2015 by Parat (the parent organisation where NPU is a member). This is a serious step in which NPU commits to go on strike should a solution not be obtained in the conflict.
The company and NPU now enters forced mediation with the state mediator. The parts will be called within two days and the mediation will then go on for a maximum of 14 days. If no agreement has been made by Feb 25th, NPU has the possibility to engage all current NAN pilots that are NPU members (per Feb 9th) in a strike."

A notice by the company on Rednose (the company internal website) defending the companies decision to decimate the current CLA in Scandinavia has so far had 352 ( and counting ) responses in 3 days . . . . . (universally stating 100% with you NPU :ok: ) Given that most employees are not so "keen" (for various reasons ) to post on Rednose one could categorise the companies decision to be so confident in their "smoke & mirrors" as badly founded/misjudged/ too big for their own boots . . . heartening to see that some amongst us still have a pair. :D

Let us see what happens twixt now & the 25th.

Questions regarding NLH
 

I know it is a separate operation, but can anyone clarify the basing situation at Norwegian Longhaul? Still only based at Bangkok? Or can you now bid one of the Scandi capitals and LGW? Also, how many days off minimum per month?

PMs also welcome.

Cheers

NAI tried to rebase everyone in LGW , with no increase in salary/conditions, this would have resulted in many who are "paying tax" in BKK finding themselves with a somewhat larger tax burden. There was predictably a revolt, so base is still BKK. From what I have heard, you can to all intents & purposes base yourself in Stockholm ( & I guess Oslo) as the schedule makes this a possibility. I believe the contracted days off are 8 a month, you get more, but apparently are constantly pestered with offers to work on OFF days as they are constantly short. I heard too, that already quite a few guys have banged out, to give themselves a 100% pay-rise flying same type whilst "really" based in the Far East.


On a separate note, the time for mediation if a strike by the Scandi based pilots is to be avoided is now less than 3 days, & NAS shows no sign of ameliorating their firm stance on completely decimating the T's & C's of K Area pilots.

A scurrilous rumour, which I have heard 2nd hand, involves a senior flight-ops figure stating during a line-check that the intention is to bankrupt NAN (the AOC holder for the Scandi part of the operation ) & relaunch with a new cheapskate operation no doubt offering the same rubbish contract they wish the current guys to downgrade to. The current impasse leads me to believe that this management wet dream may have a lot more than a touch of credibility.

Regardless if the above is true or not, it's becoming more clearer by the day that this operation is run by people who simply want overworked/underpaid slaves to oil their machine. I used to have a positive view of anyone wishing to challenge RYR/EZY but this bunch has introduced/wants to introduce more immoral and disgusting employment practices than the previous two LCC have done in the last 2 decades of their operation. The entire operation has become toilet from what I've heard by speaking to friends.

The airline name/branding is causing image/recognition problems. The choice of livery is a joke for an airline that has bigger plans.

@ captainplaystation I have heard the exact same rumour.

Norwegian faces first ever pilot strike - The Local

http://www.thelocal.no/20150212/norw...in-seven-years


http://www.thelocal.no/20141215/norw...os-shares-sale

Monarchorbust
 

Lost me there on the second paragraph? I work for the airline and all i see from my base at least is full flights more or less day in day out and a high satisfaction amongst the paying guests.........

I can see if you work for Monarch that you would be brassed of with Monarch after the butchers job inflicted on your T&C's and no doubt your management blame the rise of Norwegian and others on your savage cuts.......

Livery ? really........most of the public don't give a stuff so long as its good value and turns up on time, not a Monarch strength i know.

The k area guys have a battle on there hands for sure, but despite the cluster**k of this winter very few have jumped back toward the harp at least thus far

Some countries' Authorities operate a reporting system which is public domain, so it might not be a confidential company report.

Mods please pull this! Or at least remove the names!

Article in Aviation Week on Europe's Low Cost Pilots
 

Sorry it's not accessible right now if you don't have a subscription to AW&ST, but it should be open to non-subscribers in a week or two:

Poor Work Conditions For Many European LCC Crews | Commercial Aviation content from Aviation Week

The report was posted as a comment to an article on the american website The Hill over a month ago. Whilst it is regrettable that it contains some names of those involved I would argue that it is now truely in the public domain and no attempt has been made to remove it .
It has also appeared on this site before in various places,due to a lot of shunting around the sub fora by persons unknown.
It is currently lurking here:
http://www.pprune.org/safety-crm-qa-...ml#post8878559

Dear Norwegian pilots,

as we write this letter NPU (the pilot union representing our colleagues in Scandinavia) and the management of our airline are trying to negotiate a solution to the various issues on the discussion table.
We will not go into the details of the actual negotiations now but we would only like to highlight the fact that the positions of the two parties are very far apart.

Generally speaking our company wants to lower the terms & conditions of the NAN pilots (those permanently employed in Scandinavia) by making direct comparison with the terms & conditions of those pilots employed elsewhere by ARPI,PARC, OSM and NAR Spain on much lower conditions de-facto trying to create a new benchmark.

To add some extra drama to the situation our company is threatening the bankruptcy of NAN and therefore the layoffs of the NAN pilots in an attempt to put pressure on NPU to accept the lower conditions proposed by our management.
It is also now very obvious how the management is using these different setups (NAN,OSM,NAR Spain,NAR Finland, the agencies etc.) to put us one pilot group against the other as if we were working for completely different airlines.

This is a scenario many have witnessed in the recent past in other companies like Ryanair and its detrimental effects on our jobs are now well known to most, such developments are obviously an un-acceptable solution for our common long term plans in a company that wants to become not only a European powerhouse but also a global player.

Based on the situation described above NPU has opened up for a pilot strike of its members starting Saturday 28th of February at 00:01 hours.
In this context we would like to suggest all Norwegian pilots , regardless of base and contract type, NOT to sell their OFF days as a sign of solidarity towards our Scandinavian colleagues and in order not to undermine the outcome of their efforts.

Last but not least we are receiving information from pilots that they are being subject to roster changes as we write this letter, these changes seem to be done in order to position Euro based pilots to Scandinavia with the purpose of having them available to cover flights otherwise affected by the NPU strike, be it a standby or planned flight duty.
This type of behavior by the company might potentially be in breach of current legislation in respect of strike rules, we therefore urge all pilots affected by roster changes in the upcoming days to send their original roster as well as the roster change to the following email address: [email protected]
All info sent will be treated with the strictest confidentiality.

Best Regards,

Norwegian SEPLA

Company confidentiality rules prevent me reposting the article that appeared today on the company website telling us that we "needed a Reality Check".

I am happy that many well informed colleagues have pointed out the fact that a fleet of 90 737's, flying full on most sectors, with fares that, whilst competitive , certainly are not Ryanair level, do not suddenly overnight turn a profit into a loss, with no discernable change in terms & conditions for the employees involved that can be blamed.

The alternative theory (backed up by listings of "transactions" between NAS group companies) that the long-haul offshoot NAI is bleeding us dry, is probably too close to a "Reality Check" for those suggesting the employees need one.

Pride before a fall? if, as suggested Long Haul is bleeding the main operation why doesn't the Company simply shut down the LH operation, place the aircraft out on lease and redeploy the crews back on the 737? The debacle in the US is far from settled as is the cohesion with NAS itself.. To purge the conditions of the crews in order to prop up management ego is totally without justification. As for roster cover to break strikes, didn't Shamrock try this in 2009 when separate conditions were imposed on Dublin crews and UK based crews? history doesn't repeat itself, now NAS crews stand a chance of being "part of history.". good luck.. and for Christ's sake change that colour scheme from pen*s helmet red nose and santa claus on the tail!

Best of luck, pilots!

Good luck, guys. This is a very serious situation, and will have heavy ramification whichever way it goes. If the company win, all the locos will be given a green light to play silly buggers. If the pilots win, not only will NAS have to up its game, but it'll be a warning shot across the bow of many other companies.

I hope the NAS pilots hold their nerve, and I hope none of the contractors are scared into cooperating with the company and undermining their colleagues. If only the same could happen in RYR, but they have problems with the multinational set up and getting any union representation to make any strike legal.

Norwegian pilots union (NPU) is threatening to go on strike...and meanwhile, BK is appparently flying in pilots from other bases. Brave new world. Who are they? desperate P2F idiots?

Wetleases confirmed for tomorrow, so, seems 2 days of "mediation" with the state mediator is just window dressing to make the obvious intention to bankrupt NAN (the bit of NAS covering Scandinavian production, separated from NAS which they were inexplicably allowed to do even in a "Unionised" company :hmm: ) & then re-open as a new entity with inferior terms, seem like it was somehow the pilots fault.

I always thought that corruption & "dirty dealings" were the preserve of Southern European /Mediterranean countries. . . . the last 3 years have opened my eyes as to where the "Africa of Europe" may really be located.

Why
 

so Gloom Cat.... 600+ unionized core. At midnight the white tent leaves the table and the black is put forward. The huge problem for the BK is that there is no more honourable retreat. We know that. I think the board know that. So let's see what plays out. Osm will defiantly come at the table but not a single core will sign with a former convict. I personally could use a couple of weeks rest and mast....... My stamp collection needs dusting...

"Africa of Europe" is pretty much located where you settlers decide to pay rent by buying jobs.

The 600+ "core" pilots paid for their way from ten(ish) years ago up until today with pretty much every joiner buying a rating.

-"adapt to the market" they told us.
-"wait for the market" we told them.

Now they cry foul and rely on the rest of the community to bail them out with support.

Unfortunately we have no choice. Especially given the previous result from the courageous rednoses in conflict.

And they're on... Godspeed, Norwegian pilots!

(in norwegian)
Det blir streik i Norwegian - NRK ? Norge

If it can't be saved, it is not worth saving, you have the support of your EURO colleagues, I trust everyone amongst us to DO OUR BEST ! ! :} :ok:

Finally! Good luck everybody.