AirTanker recruiting FOs
 

AirTanker, based at RAF Brize Norton in Oxfordshire, are advertising for FOs on their A330s. The ad suggests an Airbus rating but I imagine they might consider suitable candidates with other jet types if enough 'bus people weren't forthcoming.

Widebody Airbus based in the Cotswold......? :cool:

AirTanker FOs

You fancy it stoppers?

Had a bit of a search and can't find much info, anyone able to enlighten me?! T&C's, roster etc? Cheers :ok:

Not sure the money is too good but it's a secure job and it could be varied and interesting. I wonder what they pay for skippers?

Only bus rated I see. Did they recruit non bus rated last time? I'm 747 but that just wont cut it :(.

They did take non 'bus rated folk last time...

I could be wrong but I think that as part of the deal you have to join the RAF reserves and agree to be deployed wherever the queen decides to send you.

I'd heard, though accept I may also be wrong, that they had enough of those to fill their quota so were looking for civy only pilots for the G reg only side of the operation.

The advert makes no mention of joining the reserves unlike previous adverts.

Pay deal was not great when I saw this a while ago, may have improved now though.

Rumours around that Air Tanker may be subbing for a big UK charter company next year. Any substance to this?

Does anybody know in what region this not-so-great pay deal is? Sub 50k?

Rumour on the mil forum of captains pay of circa 90k, first officer 60k

Air tanker would be a pretty good outfit to work for. Facilities are tip top and they have some really decent people working for them.

But you will also be rubbing shoulders with RAF personnel on less than half your pay and a very different ethos. I think that it'd be an unpleasant environment with a lot of bitterness on both sides, judging by the comments on the military side of the forum. I can't say I blame them, either - the armed forces should have their own kit and capability, and a PPI sucks more money out of other projects as it has to be a profitable venture.

Aluminum, having been down route and shared some pretty austre accommodation as well as share the flight deck on the following mornings dead head back to Brize with a reservist air tanker crew, my experience was quite the opposite.

I think the civilian world gets an insight into how much greener the grass is on their side, the military pilots are keen to learn what can be done to dig the quickest, deepest hole to civilian transition at the moment. The salaries thing has caused no "them and us" at all; all it has done has drive individuals in the military to get their licences quicker! We all know that as military pilots, we didnt pay for training, rating, class one medicals and didnt have to live with the debt associated with getting into the industry (instead being given a room for 200 quid a month with an attached bar with beer a pound a pint); besides as one senior officer briefed, the military is a bit like being on a train to Glasgow, its a rough ride but if you dont like it, PFO, you can get off at any stage.

From the civilian side, I think the biggest misnomer the reserve pilots have picked up on is the standard and quality of crew resource management and attitude to the job; I think a few probably had concerns as to how military rank structure played into CRM and operational decision making, as there have been horror stories in the past from the 70's generation of military captains making civilian transition. Not the case these days; guys have been operating in pretty tough conditions now for well over a decade (if you think sub part Q is bad, you should see our regs) and its put guys in situations that you just wouldn't find in civvie street. We embrace PACE, CRM training and we dont have the issues of being overly sensitive and worrying about union involvement; if someone isnt performing, the crew debrief process picks up on any non SOP adherence or deviancy pretty quickly. This involves debrief from all members of the crew, not just the officer front enders. I have seen a senior officer debriefed on weakness by a crew member of a far lower rank. Crew integration and cockpit gradient issues simply do not exist in military aviation these days from my perspective of over 4000 hours operational experience on the front line.

By and large, the guys working for air tanker on the civvie side accept that the company is offering some of the best T+C's in the industry, with PFI backed job security to boot. With the past few years worth of redundancy, Im sure many would love the opportunity to have a stable secure job. Worth the lower salary? That's your call! :ok:

"the company is offering some of the best T+C's in the industry"

Any T&C'S info ?

Wide body FO from civil world will most probably be on +£60k salary.
Add to that flight duty pay and sector pay.
Then the rest of the the package, company pension contributions, loss of licence insurance, death in service benefits, permanent health insurance, staff travel scheme and annual leave.

A little birdie told me the same and a deal with Thomas Cook is imminent and awaiting signing off by the respective boards.

Vin Rouge, I had no intention of criticising any group. I am ex RAF and current airline, so I have seen plenty of ill-founded stereotyping from and against both groups, and in my experience, you have to take each individual as they come -there are good and bad everywhere. However, when I made some enquiries a while back to see what the service reaction was to this scheme, I got my head bitten off. I hadn't made any kind of comment, I merely asked what their views on the scheme were, and I received a stream of insults. So, while I hope that the A330 Sqns have a healthier atmosphere, my suspicions of the distrust amongst service personnel towards civvies seemed well founded. That may be broken down after a while of joint operations, where they see that civvies aren't all hopeless pilots and the civvies see that the RAF guys aren't all arrogant kids, but it'll take longer for the fast jet Sqns to accept them.

Aluminium, sorry, didn't mean to cast dispersions. I would chin off those that bit your head off, whether the pfi is or isn't good value is neither here nor there really, i gt the impression there is little animosity between civvie and military every time I'm over here.

As I aid seems a nice set up, admittedly I don't work there though.

Anyone with inside knowledge know if it is worth applying without a bus rating?

nothing new
 

Civi and Mil pilots have been working together for decades and producing the very best results - Much flying training and aircraft positioning was done through Civi contractors in WW2 and beyond.

In 1995 EFT for RAF, RN and AAC was successfully contractorised under JEFTS (Huntings). This became LAFT2 (VT/Babcock)/ 3FTS in more recent years.

And today you can join as a civilian gliding instructor:

https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/wan...instructor.cfm

As for payscales I very much doubt the AT civi pay is better than a decent pension and Flt Lt salary / Spec Aircrew wage.